Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Ciarente on 21 Mar 2013, 22:23
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[mod] Let's try this again, on topic. Discussions of how much CCP hates you, you faction, your family and your kittens belong somewhere other than this thread. The mods are keeping an especially close eye on this thread for derailment and will rain thermonuclear mod death should it start to happen. [/mod]
Dev Blog (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74644)
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The battle begins, the pieces are set, the universe is about to catch fire...and I'm recording a meeting about a TB vaccine...woo hoo
:|
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Turns out CCP Masterplan spent the night poking and trying to change code. He's announced this little ditty:
As of DT today, the faction navy response in Luminaire has been deactivated. This means that members of Amarr and Caldari FW corps will not trigger a navy NPC response in the Luminaire system.
(This does NOT affect the police response to crimes and outlaws - CONCORD consequences will still be in effect for now)
As CCP Affinity further clarified:
There will be 1 spawn of 4 NPCs that can easily be taken care of but the further spawns after the initial have been disabled. Hope this makes things a bit clearer and I hope to see some Caldari FW pilots defending their titan.
Faction police for -5 sec status and CONCORD oolice for GCC criminals are both still in effect.
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Holy shit that's about to make things really interesting.
Where's Grideris? I want popcorn.
EDIT: Wasn't there supposed to be a live stream of this somewhere?
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http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/new is the official stream from CCP.
There will undoubtedly be streams from players.
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Turns out CCP Masterplan spent the night poking and trying to change code. He's announced this little ditty:
As of DT today, the faction navy response in Luminaire has been deactivated. This means that members of Amarr and Caldari FW corps will not trigger a navy NPC response in the Luminaire system.
(This does NOT affect the police response to crimes and outlaws - CONCORD consequences will still be in effect for now)
As CCP Affinity further clarified:
There will be 1 spawn of 4 NPCs that can easily be taken care of but the further spawns after the initial have been disabled. Hope this makes things a bit clearer and I hope to see some Caldari FW pilots defending their titan.
Faction police for -5 sec status and CONCORD oolice for GCC criminals are both still in effect.
Good to see CCP working out the mechanics so both sides could participate. Hopefully that will make it a little more fun for all involved.
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Neat.
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System now a t pop cap of 1000 , 3 1/2 hours before the event. Rough count indicates that 1,000 includes approx. 500 shuttles, t1 frigs and noob ships.
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System now a t pop cap of 1000 , 3 1/2 hours before the event. Rough count indicates that 1,000 includes approx. 500 shuttles, t1 frigs and noob ships.
So most people are there not even to fight but just watch in shuttles and frigs?...Wow...hope they get ganked first.
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It's also quite possible that people have their combat ships in station and are hanging out before things start.
Cal Navy Wyverns now moved into range, btw .
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ugh anger...rage...frustration....wish I was there T_T
Thanks for reporting it though Cia. At least we can have some eyes there. :cube:
EDIT: And if they DO go Tovil Toba, either trimark plate mwd mega bump that beatch or go clear skies 2 on its hydrazine tanks. Make sure to play epic music if you DO do that.
Disclaimer: Anslo (c) would not condone the death of a few thousand people on a titan for the sake of epic and win, but Anslo (p) would cheer you on with a foam finger.
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I'm sure Twitter is much more informed and immediate! :P
Anyway, the Wyverns (one of which is named the Tovil and is captained by our old friend Sami Okuda) have set up reps on the Leviathan. Goons are reported to be camping gates into the system; since system has reached cap I guess they can't get in either.
Local is ofc full of spam, scams and pron, and people going GCC on pointless ganks.
So basically, so far, it's like Jita, but with more capitals.
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I'm calling 4 Titans, simultaneous doomsday. If the Leviathan is destined to go down, there's no other way to really cripple it fast enough to prevent it from firing on the planet....at least I think. Maybe you'd need more Titans.
EDIT: And of course the one day somethings going down, my company decides to block any game related website. For today. Of course...no stream for me then.
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Proof that life can be a bitch:
Blessed with a reportedly short work-day. Show up, help get stuff done, go home, reported needed time - 30 minutes. A short day, in other words, I could be home and log in right after DT, before the cap is reached.
Problem - one co-worker fails to show up. Needed time extends due to more work-load for the rest of us. Further complication - cargo fails to arrive on time due to mechanical failure in the transport. It needs to get to service to look over the problem. More time is wasted. Result - cargo arrives massively over time and due to the nature of it getting things done requires highly impractical means with less crew on hand. Work-day takes near 3 hours instead of 30 minutes.
I could have been home by the time DT was over and log in in Luminaire. Instead I sit here looking at the log-in screen telling me to wait or log in elsewhere. Well, logging in elsewhere won't help me get in, and the gates are likely to be highly dangerous places to be. So now I'm in the same boat as only CCP knows how many others.
Likely going to see the system again through the stream before I see it in-game at this rate. :bash:
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If your ship is tanked for PvP, you'll be fine spamming enter at the gate. CONCORD is still in effect, so you aren't going to get suicide ganked unless you're in a ship worth a few billion.
Also, militia is still active outside Luminaire. So if you're worried about Cal Mil ships ganking you on gate, don't worry, there won't be any. Now IN Luminaire? Well, that's another story lol.
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See? No reason to be emo. :)
Hope you guys have fun, I'll be watching the livestream. :)
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Certain amount of posturing in local from the CalNav actors about receiving targets for bombardment, spooling up oblivion device etc.
Our old friend Slutty Underwear is trying to persuade the Titan pilot to try diplomatic means. Or 'deplomatic menas'.
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So they're gonna doomsday the planet?? Can the Titan be engaged now??
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Fun fact: IF the Caldari State doomsday the planet they will forever lose any right whatsoever to bitch about the previous war and the bombardment. Less than a million dead is nicely beat by wiping out all life on the planet, bonus-points for killing your own troops.
Let's seriously hope it don't come to that, I don't think even Heth is that desperate. Surely rendering the Caldari homeworld a blasted hell-scape is not going to earn him points...
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CONCORD is still in effect, the suspect flag mechanism has not started. Nothing is engagable yet.
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Let's seriously hope it don't come to that, I don't think even Heth is that desperate. Surely rendering the Caldari homeworld a blasted hell-scape is not going to earn him points...
The latest news post suggests that he's under a lot of stress, visibly so. I suspect he knows his time is nearing an end regardless, to be honest. There's really not a lot of ways he can come out of this on top.
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So, they bypassed Tripwire to get the Leviathan there. Now they get to bypass the Fed Navy to keep it there? From a storytelling perspective, this is pretty damn absurd.
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Let's seriously hope it don't come to that, I don't think even Heth is that desperate. Surely rendering the Caldari homeworld a blasted hell-scape is not going to earn him points...
The latest news post suggests that he's under a lot of stress, visibly so. I suspect he knows his time is nearing an end regardless, to be honest. There's really not a lot of ways he can come out of this on top.
Glassing the homeworld you fought tooth and nail for and touted around as your credentials to lead the State is coming out on top? O_o
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CONCORD is still in effect, the suspect flag mechanism has not started. Nothing is engagable yet.
I would love to get in BEFORE this happened.
I have a nasty suspicion that the 500 or so reported shuttle/noobship/frig guys just hanging out are alts simply there to hog space, letting their mains show up with actual combat ships to kill the capitals while no resistance is even allowed to enter the system. For all we know, this won't just be an event that sees heavy involvement by null-entities seeking glorious kill-mails, but an event that only the null-entity(ies) involved get any enjoyment out of.
At any rate, they need to hurry and reinforce the node and let more people in. No point hyping up to any event if only a few people can even attend.
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Glassing the homeworld you fought tooth and nail for and touted around as your credentials to lead the State is coming out on top? O_o
I think he's saying that Heth can't really come out on top at all, so he has nothing to lose by denying the Feds a prize.
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Glassing the homeworld you fought tooth and nail for and touted around as your credentials to lead the State is coming out on top? O_o
I think he's saying that Heth can't really come out on top at all, so he has nothing to lose by denying the Feds a prize.
That is precisely what I am saying. Heth knows he can't win this (politically).
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blah-blah 'weapons spooling up' blah-blah 'standing by' blah-blah 'weapons spooling up' blah blah 'standing by' blah blah'.
Basically fluff, while they wait for the event to start.
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That said, these guys do fly some pretty formations.
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Weird fucking timing. So basically, GMT or less who have day jobs are right out. I won't even be catching the stream since I'll be commuting at that time. I'm not massively fussed, all of the events so far have been a no-go for me, so...
I just find it weird for an event of this magnitude.
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There is one reason and one reason only for the timing of the event being as it is for this particular day.
That reason is PAX East.
If it weren't being done partly as a promotional thing for PAX (or at GDC, next week), the timing would probably be more "sensible".
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[15:16:32] Visera Yanala > 37TH SQUADRON - STATUS - CALDARI ARMED FORCES APPEAR TO BE WORKING TOWARD SURFACE SIDE SUPERIORITY
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WHOSE STATE IS THIS?!
OUR STATE!
*pew pew pew*
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Odo Korachi > [DED] PEACEKEEPER, HAILING [CN] SHIIGERU - STATUS REPORT - IMMEDIATELY
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER, CANNOT COMPLY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - THIS IS A FINAL REQUEST - STATUS REPORT ON WEAPONS AND ENGINEERING SYSTEMS IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > ANY FIRE ON LUMINAIRE VII WILL BE CONSIDERED AS A BREACH OF THE YULAI CONVENTION
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - AKNOWLEDGED
Visera Yanala > CANNOT COMPLY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI STATE AIRSPACE
Visera Yanala > VACATE ORBIT OF LUMINAIRE VII IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - WEAPONS OFFLINE - DIRECT ORDER
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - AKNOWLEDGED - CANNOT COMPLY
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - VACATE ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME IMMEDIATELY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI AIRSPACE
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - CANNOT COMPLY - CEASE AND DESIST, THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - WE HAVE GIVEN AMPLE WARNING. YOU NOW LEAVE US WITH NO CHOICE.
Visera Yanala > CAPSULE OF FORMER VESSEL [DED] PEACEKEEPER - VACATE ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME IMMEDIATELY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI AIRSPACE
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - THE INNER CIRCLE WILL BE IN TOUCH.
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Odo Korachi > [DED] PEACEKEEPER, HAILING [CN] SHIIGERU - STATUS REPORT - IMMEDIATELY
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER, CANNOT COMPLY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - THIS IS A FINAL REQUEST - STATUS REPORT ON WEAPONS AND ENGINEERING SYSTEMS IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > ANY FIRE ON LUMINAIRE VII WILL BE CONSIDERED AS A BREACH OF THE YULAI CONVENTION
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - AKNOWLEDGED
Visera Yanala > CANNOT COMPLY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI STATE AIRSPACE
Visera Yanala > VACATE ORBIT OF LUMINAIRE VII IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - CEASE AND DESIST IMMEDIATELY
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - WEAPONS OFFLINE - DIRECT ORDER
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - AKNOWLEDGED - CANNOT COMPLY
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - VACATE ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME IMMEDIATELY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI AIRSPACE
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - CANNOT COMPLY - CEASE AND DESIST, THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING
Visera Yanala > [DED] PEACEKEEPER - WE HAVE GIVEN AMPLE WARNING. YOU NOW LEAVE US WITH NO CHOICE.
Visera Yanala > CAPSULE OF FORMER VESSEL [DED] PEACEKEEPER - VACATE ORBIT OF CALDARI PRIME IMMEDIATELY - YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF CALDARI AIRSPACE
Odo Korachi > [CN] SHIIGERU - THE INNER CIRCLE WILL BE IN TOUCH.
Fuck you CONCORD.
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Couldn't CONCORD wipe out the Caldari fleet?...
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CONCORD vessel destroyed by Caldari Navy in Luminaire
reported by CCP Falcon | 2013-03-22T15:57:18Z
BREAKING NEWS – A Marshal-class battleship belonging to CONCORD was engaged and destroyed by the Caldari Navy fleet in orbit of Caldari Prime less than ten minutes ago.
General Odo Korachi, a senior commander with the Directive Enforcement Department, had been dispatched from Yulai to monitor the ongoing situation in Luminaire after the hostilities escalated to a full-scale military conflict this afternoon.
On arrival, his vessel was seen entering low orbit of Caldari Prime and deploying scanning equipment in an apparent attempt to assess the situation. The Caldari Navy responded with demands from Admiral Visera Yanala that the DED Officer vacate orbit of the planet immediately. After no response, the Caldari Navy repeated the demand and gave five minutes for the CONCORD vessel to withdraw, claiming that the DED was in violation of a Caldari Navy-enforced no-fly zone.
Reportedly General Korachi then refused to withdraw, explaining that he had been dispatched as a representative of the CONCORD Assembly to ensure that any conflict was occurring within the boundaries of the Yulai Convention. It is not known whether any further communication occurred between the two vessels, but moments later his vessel was engaged and destroyed by the Shiigeru and her support fleet.
The Caldari Navy action was met with immediate response by the Directive Enforcement Department, who have declared a state of emergency in Luminaire and announced that a full-scale traffic advisory and global suspect flagging of all pilots in the Luminaire system is imminent.
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GJ escalating when your DUSTies are already winning the fight, Yanala. -.-
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Couldn't CONCORD wipe out the Caldari fleet?...
No, against any non capsuleer ships they lack the overrides and cheatcodes.
Best example of this is the UNCALLED FOR AND ILLEGAL attack by the MINMATAR REPUBLIC on CONCORD.
If CONCORD declares a free for all because ONE BATTLESHIP of theirs has been destroyed then why is the WHOLE of the minmatar republic not zero zero space by now? :bash:
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Because the Elder fleet was disavowed by the Republic?
Anyway, blowing up CONCORD battleships is so 2010 :roll:
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Because CCP has a raging hardon for freedom fighting minmatar and gloriously "democratic" americ- I mean gallente.
Anyway, blowing up CONCORD battleships is so 2010 :roll:
There, fixed that for you. :lol:
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Because CCP has a raging hardon for freedom fighting minmatar and gloriously "democratic" americ- I mean gallente.
Anyway, blowing up CONCORD battleships is so 2010 :roll:
There, fixed that for you. :lol:
We get it, you're bitter.
Maybe you should pray for Tony G to come back so he can Deus Ex Machina the Amarrian empire another dead Heir with an I-Win superweapon. Funny how you forgot to mention that in your list of railroaded historical plotpoints.
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Because CCP has a raging hardon for freedom fighting minmatar and gloriously "democratic" americ- I mean gallente.
Anyway, blowing up CONCORD battleships is so 2010 :roll:
There, fixed that for you. :lol:
If that were even remotely true, there wouldn't be a Leviathan in Luminaire in the first place. The Fed Navy wouldn't be taking the day off in Luminaire, either. The fight also might have started before the Caldari had the advantage on the ground. I honestly don't see a lot of pro-Fed action on CCP's part here. If anything, they're artificially making the odds better for the Caldari at the expense of a believable story.
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I wonder why Yanala didn't just say 'weapon is active cause shit, I'm a weapon trying to defend my planet from Gallenteans,' instead of now 'no fuck off, pewpew.'
CONCORD could do some serious damage to the State :S
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Streaming from the ground with Dust: http://www.twitch.tv/lioso_cadelanne
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I wonder why Yanala didn't just say 'weapon is active cause shit, I'm a weapon trying to defend my planet from Gallenteans,' instead of now 'no fuck off, pewpew.'
CONCORD could do some serious damage to the State :S
Well I'm sure if CONCORD ever tried that the ELDER FLEET would just jump drive to Yulai and ownzone them again. :bash:
Caellach, if TonyG/CONCORD hadn't intervened Pator and Rens would be lifeless rocks by now, super weapons or not.
I fail to see how all those minmatar capitals could have ever hoped to jump drive out once the cynojammers were online, after which it would have been a numbers game.
Remind me, who has the largest fleet in the universe again? :|
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Are the 'state winning' comments based on the DUST matches in progress?
Or is this prelude to deus ex fed navy doomsday fleet?
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Dust Update:
Update from the front: State Protectorate is successfully defending with 361 wins, with the Federal Defence Union at 327 right now.
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Dust Update:
Update from the front: State Protectorate is successfully defending with 361 wins, with the Federal Defence Union at 327 right now.
Go Go Squids!
Make the frogs loose their whitts!
Go Go Squids!
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CCP stream is up: http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/new
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Four CalNav Phoenix in scan range of Caldari Prime now, and 8 Chimmys
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3 Wyverns visible on grid, with at least one more hanging around. Also mentions of a Nyx in system.
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2 FN nyx, 10 moros, 8 thannys on d-scan
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I wonder which side's capitals will get the dev hacks for this event.
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Caldari Carriers and Dreads now on grid with the titan.
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How are they even getting in? What happened to tripwire and the whole CONCORD blocking cynos??
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BREAKING NEWS!!!
A large gallente ship is now visible also.
Military experts are calling it a "Hyperion" class battleship! :lol:
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Federation Navy fleet arrives in Luminaire, Caldari Navy deploys in response
reported by CCP Falcon | 2013-03-22T16:28:15Z
BREAKING NEWS – A large task force of Federation Navy capital-class vessels arrived in Luminaire moments ago, triggering a similar escalation from the Caldari Navy.
The exact composition of the Gallente fleet is still unknown at this time, although local magnetometric scans are rumored to display the signatures of dozens of capital-class vessels. Within seconds of the Federation Navy’s arrival, a sizable Caldari Navy fleet bridged into Luminaire from the border system of Kassigainen before the Federation Navy could reactivate its cynosural jamming systems.
The Caldari Navy fleet, consisting of a wing of Phoenix-class dreadnoughts and Chimera-class carriers, has made immediate contact with the Shiigeru and her support fleet in low orbit of Caldari Prime, setting up a defensive perimeter around their flagship.
At this time, the Federation Navy fleet remains concealed and has not yet made any advance on Caldari Prime. Federation Navy cynosural jamming systems are back on line, however, a development which has effectively cut off the Caldari fleet from further escalation.
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Heh, kil2 will be commentating.
Lovely :)
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lol 'The titan was left here after a previous live event' [that happened entirely during DT and was not in any way live]
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Visera Yanala > CEASE AND DESIST, AND RETURN TO ALGOGILLE, THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING
Aubarell Dogenon > Noted.
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Moros fleet on grid. Thanatos also present. Can't see any Nyx yet.
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"Noted."
I.E. FUCK YOU
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Combat has started, players are shooting each other mostly.
Some players shooting the Gallente fleet.
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Navies are engaged.
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Caldari are splitting their fire between a Moros and a Thanatos. Gallente have engaged a Wyvern.
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F5ing dis thread from phone @ work in no events land.
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F5ing dis thread from phone @ work in no events land.
Same...
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Wyvern is at 75% shields, everyone on grid is suspect at this point.
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Federation Navy mount full-scale offensive against Caldari Fleet in Luminaire
reported by CCP Falcon | 2013-03-22T16:48:09Z
BREAKING NEWS – The Federation Navy task force seen entering Luminaire approximately 30 minutes ago has engaged the Leviathan-class titan Shiigeru and her support fleet in orbit of Caldari Prime.
The news spread across the entire Federation in minutes, with every GalNET channel currently broadcasting announcing breaking news in order to cut to footage of the ongoing engagement in orbit. Businesses across the Federation are beginning to close early, and planet side traffic in many major cities across the regions of Essence, Verge Vendor and Placid has ground to a halt as billboards cut to footage of the Federation Navy assault.
When contacted regarding the ongoing operation, Scope News military advisor Francois Mirelle initially appeared lost for words, before concluding that “there is no doubt about it. This has to be a premeditated and planned assault to take back control of Caldari Prime. This could possibly be the largest offensive undertaken by the Federation Navy since the end of the war in YC12.”
The aggression by the Federation Navy comes without any form of prior contact with the Caldari Navy during the course of the day and is being described by tactical experts as a “full scale frontal offensive against the blockade of Caldari Prime.”
The office of press for the Federation Navy remains closed for comment at this point, and the CONCORD Assembly has issued a full travel advisory for the Luminaire system. The content of the travel advisory includes the warning that any pilot who ventures into the Luminaire system has no guarantee of safety and will be flagged as a global suspect.
The Directive Enforcement Department are advising all capsuleers to stay clear of the Luminaire system, and have officially confirmed that the CONCORD Assembly will accept no liability for loss of life or property until such time as the situation is brought under control.
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TiDI up to 32%
Moros is not sieged and is receiving reps from the carriers. Leviathan is also engaged, firing citadel missiles at a Thanatos.
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Why the hell haven't the Fed deployed another Titan with their fleet? They always think a Nyx can substitute for an Erebus.
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Unconfirmed, but I think a Thanatos just popped.
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Ib4 comicly bad fitted killmails.
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Wyvern at 50% shields. If these seems slow, the Wyvern is about 40-50km away from the main brawl, and the Moros are blaster fit.
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Wyvern now at 25%
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Ib4 comicly bad fitted killmails.
They are using T2 fits iirc. No more "feed the nullsec hotdropper powerblocs" fits.
Edit - Wyvern in deep armor.
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Wyvern down.
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They have the code to prevent swag from dropping. I bet even for just T2 fit they still will be horrendously terrible.
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At least 2 Moros have died, and at least 1 Thanatos.
Leviathan is at around 80% shields.
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3 Gal caps down to 1 Cal cap? Lawl.
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12% TiDi, Chimera down.
Leviathan has been primaried by Gallente dreads, now at 40% shields.
Editing to add that loads of players are shooting the Leviathan as well.
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So, no doomsdaying the hostile caps huh?
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Curious to know (since I can't be there) if the titan has an actor to its name or is it still the NPC?
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Titan down to about 20% shields looks like.
It is piloted by the Visera Yanala actor, Kyoko.
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2 Nyx confirmed on field.
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Are NPC's shooting each other? Or all actors?
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Caldari remain in the lead on the Dust front.
I believe the capitals are all CCP actors.
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In Dust:
297 Gallente victories
299 Caldari Victories
Chimera down.
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How are the Gallente whipping them so badly without as many cap ships?...
Can we get a count of caps for both sides? It seemed like the Fed had WAY fewer ships. Then again, what player would resist a high sec titan km...
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Titan remains at just under 20% shields. (17%)
TiDi remains at 13%
Local is at ~1500
It looks like a Nyx has possibly died, can't tell due to the lighting.
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I count 18 visible surviving Moros.
Chimera down.
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How are the Gallente whipping them so badly without as many cap ships?...
One word: Moros.
941 people shooting at the Leviathan, holding steady at 17% shields.
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18 MOROS ON FIELD?!
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Updating count, 24 Moros, 2 Nyx.
Edit: 3 Nyx.
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20+ Moros will do that.
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Holy shit gg...
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941 people shooting the Leviathan, he is holding at 17% shields
RR FTW.
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When they were saying Caldari were winning in DUST I was hoping that this would have an actual open end.
And then the Caldari admiral started making mistakes a captain fresh out of navy school wouldn't do. Cripes.
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Gallente have switched to a Wyvern.
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Of course the locals are shooting the Titan. They want to bnc.
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Gallente Navy is bringing in more reinforcements, Caldari are down to 3 Wyverns, about 5 Phoenix and around 3-4 Chimeras
Wyvern at ~5% shields.
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Wyvern down.
2 left.
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Being dragged away, sorry :(
No more updates from me for a while.
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Another Wyvern down :(
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Why the hell haven't the Fed deployed another Titan with their fleet? They always think a Nyx can substitute for an Erebus.
The obvious answer is that the Caldari are supposed to win this one.
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5 chimmys, 25 moros, 4 nyx, 6 phoenix, 8 thannies, 2 wyversn left on field
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Chimera down.
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37 Gallente cap ships jesus christ...
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Another one or two Chimeras down.
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Chimera down. Moros taking fire.
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Large Razor Alliance Naga gang on field at 150km
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Large Razor Alliance Naga gang on field at 150km
It begins. Let us know who they shoot!
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Can't, really do have to go now.
Keep this thread updated people! I want to read it when I get back :P
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Morlag, you're our only hope D:
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What am I, chopped liver?
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Wyvern down.
Edit - Guys, I'm watching the stream and reporting from there while at work. Cia's actually on the field, and she's been keeping -me- in the loop.
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What am I, chopped liver?
I love you Cia... :oops:
I thought you'd gone due to RL stuff.
EDIT: I wish I could watch the feed and help update but my office finally decided that today of all days was a fine time to update their filters = =
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left:
Levi
Chimmy
29 moros
5 nyx
5 phoeniz
7 thanny
1 wyvern
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Titan is in armor.
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Fire focused on titan now
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Structure now.
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Holy shit that fast? Watch for debris flying towards the planet and see if you can target em. Maybe you can keep the planet from getting trashed.
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down
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New Eden's tiniest violin just played for that titan, lol. :D
Also, capital explosion effect bugged out on the livestream. :(
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Holy shit that fast? Watch for debris flying towards the planet and see if you can target em. Maybe you can keep the planet from getting trashed.
You overestimate the amount of new stuff CCP is able or willing to add to the game simply for the sake of an experimental event.
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down
I am genuinely surprised. Now I'm interested to see how this actually affects the storyline. I expected a deus ex miracle for a Caldari victory (and might still see one on the storyline side).
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New Eden's tiniest violin just played for that titan, lol. :D
Also, capital explosion effect bugged out on the livestream. :(
Bugged out my client too :<
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reported by CCP Falcon | 2013-03-22T18:03:42Z
BREAKING NEWS – Watched by trillions across the cluster, the Leviathan-class titan Shiigeru, which resided in orbit of Caldari Prime, has been destroyed in a pitched engagement between Federation Navy and Caldari Navy forces.
In their largest offensive action since the end of the Gallente-Caldari war in YC12, the Federation Navy moved to eliminate the threat that has been posed by the titan since it was drafted in to guard the planet and act as a deterrent against counterattack after the YC110 invasion.
Thousands of capsuleers claiming loyalty to both sides of the conflict have flooded into the system of Luminaire after the CONCORD Assembly declared a state of emergency in the wake of the hostilities.
In the midst of a drawn-out engagement, which at time of press has seen the destruction of hundreds of independent capsuleer vessels and the loss of hundreds of thousands of crewmembers, the Shiigeru found herself left with dwindling support and finally succumbed to fire from the Federation Navy and Gallente-loyal capsuleer vessels.
To add to the gravity of the situation, wreckage is reported to be falling on the outskirts of the city of Arcurio, as a burning section of the forward superstructure of the Shiigeru almost seven kilometers in length has already begun to enter Caldari Prime’s atmosphere.
Transmissions from the surface, with which communication was only reestablished in the last 30 minutes, would indicate that a massive evacuation of the west side of the greater Arcurio area is in progress, while ground combat is still ongoing in a number of districts. Projected trajectory analysis indicates that the wreckage may make impact to the west of the city.
Vlan Peloelus, a quantum physicist and starship designer for Roden Shipyards who also serves as a technical consultant to The Scope, carefully analyzed the final moments of the Shiigeru with the media. Among other things, he indicated that “her destruction was more than likely caused by a catastrophic failure of the magnetic containment field used to isolate the core of her secondary reactor. This in turn probably caused thermal overload and eventual meltdown.” He continued by explaining that “this is also more than likely why she broke up in the manner that she did, and would explain why her aft-decks, which mainly contain engineering subsystems, were completely destroyed.”
Meanwhile, in orbit, the battle for Caldari Prime continues to rage, with the heavily damaged Federation Navy fleet continuing to keep pressure on the remaining Caldari vessels.
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before (http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4271/20130322142320.jpg)
after (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/982/20130322180504.jpg)
(sorry for the terribad resolution on the second one. it is actually the wreck.)
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lol my office even blocks seeing the images...christ I hate this place. :bash:
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Smartest meta-ideology comment I've heard all week, even though it is fictitious. I love political science.
[18:18:21] Caellach Marellus > Heth is now the man who lost Caldari Prime.
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is the wreck a new model or just the standard husk titan model?
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Dramatic re-enactment:
8) 8) 8)
8) :P 8)
8) 8) 8)
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :eek: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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This all sounds pretty dramatic ... thanks for the updates :)
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Furball still furry.
Also many many goon tears in local, I'm not sure why.
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Dramatic re-enactment:
8) 8) 8)
8) :P 8)
8) 8) 8)
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :eek: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :cry: :cry: :evil:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
This has given me a hearty lol.
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Furball still furry.
Also many many goon tears in local, I'm not sure why.
Couldn't possibly be related to missing out on a highsec titan kill. :roll:
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Federation, fuck yeah! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R5A0pg4oN8)
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Meh. That was...a damp squib. And pretty much the perfect example of reach exceeding grasp.
It seems rather clear that the end result was predetermined. I don't have a problem with that necessarily, but I do have a problem with them trying to claim otherwise.
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Are we sure there weren't two outcomes? What was the DUST final total?
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Dust battles will continue all weekend.
Also IMO the event was predetermined as soon as non-RPers heard 'titan km in high-sec'. Once they lifted the gate restrictions and the alliances came in, it was all over for the titan.
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Well if there was any doubt in my mind that my computer and internet cannot handle PvP, this proved it.
> Start fighting in Luminaire.
> Freeze.
> Crash to Desktop.
> Log back into Algogille.
> Ganked by people waiting on gate while frozen again.
> Lose pod while still frozen.
> Wake up in station, continue lagging for no reason for another 5 minutes.
> Give up and restart client completely.
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31627
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31625
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Titan was going to die no matter what. Dust will decide ownership of the planet, methinks.
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Well if there was any doubt in my mind that my computer and internet cannot handle PvP, this proved it.
> Start fighting in Luminaire.
> Freeze.
> Crash to Desktop.
> Log back into Algogille.
> Ganked by people waiting on gate while frozen again.
> Lose pod while still frozen.
> Wake up in station, continue lagging for no reason for another 5 minutes.
> Give up and restart client completely.
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31627
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31625
Weren't the only one from what I hear. They didn't enforce the node enough. So it's more about the 2000 people feeding information your way than your computer in this case, Kat.
About the predetermined event... We'd probably would've not known about it had CCP actually not derped and released the map early. Now that the titan popped everything is going as they planned to make the Dust map happen. Could be it will remain a hostile warzone for dusters from now on.
PS. *hugs to Kat*
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Weren't the only one from what I hear. They didn't enforce the node enough. So it's more about the 2000 people feeding information your way than your computer in this case, Kat.
About the predetermined event... We'd probably would've not known about it had CCP actually not derped and released the map early. Now that the titan popped everything is going as they planned to make the Dust map happen. Could be it will remain a hostile warzone for dusters from now on.
PS. *hugs to Kat*
Well, even without the map, the fact that the Gallente brought 3 times as many cap ships as the Caldari had would pretty much have made that clear, as pale a shadow of an actual cap fight as that was.
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*Silas cackles with glee as she hopes all the CCP event bugs are worked out before the Imperial Avatar fleet arrives in orbit over Matar*
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On another note, super fun to see so many actors blapping each other and -things- (tm) happening.
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Weren't the only one from what I hear. They didn't enforce the node enough. So it's more about the 2000 people feeding information your way than your computer in this case, Kat.
About the predetermined event... We'd probably would've not known about it had CCP actually not derped and released the map early. Now that the titan popped everything is going as they planned to make the Dust map happen. Could be it will remain a hostile warzone for dusters from now on.
PS. *hugs to Kat*
Well, even without the map, the fact that the Gallente brought 3 times as many cap ships as the Caldari had would pretty much have made that clear, as pale a shadow of an actual cap fight as that was.
Mm, that, 8 blap Moroii do bad things. Then again, did anyone actually, honestly, ever since that thing appeared in Luminaire a different outcome to this? Gallente home world is next to the titan, of course it's gonna be overkill show of force - would be very stupid not to. I'd say be happy that people got actually to participate at all. This could have been another downtime news title or a badly written book.
It wasn't the earth shattering dream event everyone had hoped for, sure, but it was a lot better than we've received in past years.What I do think is that this should have been a treat for the Factional Warfare guys instead free for all.
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Meh. That was...a damp squib. And pretty much the perfect example of reach exceeding grasp.
It seems rather clear that the end result was predetermined. I don't have a problem with that necessarily, but I do have a problem with them trying to claim otherwise.
Told you so. :P
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Mm, that, 8 blap Moroii do bad things. Then again, did anyone actually, honestly, ever since that thing appeared in Luminaire a different outcome to this? Gallente home world is next to the titan, of course it's gonna be overkill show of force - would be very stupid not to. I'd say be happy that people got actually to participate at all. This could have been another downtime news title or a badly written book.
It wasn't the earth shattering dream event everyone had hoped for, sure, but it was a lot better than we've received in past years.What I do think is that this should have been a treat for the Factional Warfare guys instead free for all.
Well, like I said, less annoyed by the fact that the outcome was predetermined than that they tried to claim it wasn't. Or that they announced it in advance at all, honestly. Like I said on Twitter, this doesn't make the world feel alive, it makes it feel contrived, which is not the goal the live events team has, I assume.
It would have been nice if it was more structured, but...yeah. CCP wants to do cool stuff but they don't really have the technical ability to do it yet. Why they thought they needed to go full speed ahead with this kind of stuff I don't know, since there's no urgent need to get rid of the titan that I can think of.
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Weren't the only one from what I hear. They didn't enforce the node enough. So it's more about the 2000 people feeding information your way than your computer in this case, Kat.
About the predetermined event... We'd probably would've not known about it had CCP actually not derped and released the map early. Now that the titan popped everything is going as they planned to make the Dust map happen. Could be it will remain a hostile warzone for dusters from now on.
PS. *hugs to Kat*
Well, even without the map, the fact that the Gallente brought 3 times as many cap ships as the Caldari had would pretty much have made that clear, as pale a shadow of an actual cap fight as that was.
Mm, that, 8 blap Moroii do bad things. Then again, did anyone actually, honestly, ever since that thing appeared in Luminaire a different outcome to this? Gallente home world is next to the titan, of course it's gonna be overkill show of force - would be very stupid not to. I'd say be happy that people got actually to participate at all. This could have been another downtime news title or a badly written book.
It wasn't the earth shattering dream event everyone had hoped for, sure, but it was a lot better than we've received in past years.What I do think is that this should have been a treat for the Factional Warfare guys instead free for all.
Try 32 Moroses. Thirty. Two.
There were more Moroses than there were Caldari capitals and supercapitals combined.
And of course the Caldari engaged these at point-blank optimal range.
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Mm, that, 8 blap Moroii do bad things. Then again, did anyone actually, honestly, ever since that thing appeared in Luminaire a different outcome to this? Gallente home world is next to the titan, of course it's gonna be overkill show of force - would be very stupid not to. I'd say be happy that people got actually to participate at all. This could have been another downtime news title or a badly written book.
It wasn't the earth shattering dream event everyone had hoped for, sure, but it was a lot better than we've received in past years.What I do think is that this should have been a treat for the Factional Warfare guys instead free for all.
Well, like I said, less annoyed by the fact that the outcome was predetermined than that they tried to claim it wasn't. Or that they announced it in advance at all, honestly. Like I said on Twitter, this doesn't make the world feel alive, it makes it feel contrived, which is not the goal the live events team has, I assume.
It would have been nice if it was more structured, but...yeah. CCP wants to do cool stuff but they don't really have the technical ability to do it yet. Why they thought they needed to go full speed ahead with this kind of stuff I don't know, since there's no urgent need to get rid of the titan that I can think of.
PAX East.
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Try 32 Moroses. Thirty. Two.
There were more Moroses than there were Caldari capitals and supercapitals combined.
And of course the Caldari engaged these at point-blank optimal range.
I think I'm having trouble grasping the idea that you guys expected them to do any differently.
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PAX East.
I know that. I'm saying, there's no storyline reason they had to rush everything. It's yet another symptom of CCP being addicted to GIANT SHOCKING EVENTS! instead of creating a living world, when they there's obviously technical limitations that make the former difficult with their current capabilities.
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PAX East.
I know that. I'm saying, there's no storyline reason they had to rush everything. It's yet another symptom of CCP being addicted to GIANT SHOCKING EVENTS! instead of creating a living world, when they there's obviously technical limitations that make the former difficult with their current capabilities.
Exactly. You're completely right. But...PAX East. Business development. Money. Showing off. Etc etc...they're trying to look like an action movie for 1 day to beat back the spreadsheet stereotype instead of having evolved this all in a more natural way. But, :CCP:
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Yess.... yes.... let the hate.... flow through you....
I can feel you anger...goooood..... goooooood
(http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/galleries/2010/Review_ThroneChair/Review_ThroneChair_still.jpg)
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Also...whoever wrote that NPC dialogue...really? Really?
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I don't think he was flame baiting or trolling, I think he was just being funny and trying to get a laugh from everyone.
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is the titan lossmail listed ?
i want to see who shot it with civilian guns or other nonsense, just to get on the mail.
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Meh, Caldari used to be cool.
No really. I think I will remember this as a part of Tony G's legacy; that he managed to switch position of the most and least popular empire factions with his work. Long gone are the days of an ultra efficient, militaristic and scientific leading society against French hippies.
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is the titan lossmail listed ?
i want to see who shot it with civilian guns or other nonsense, just to get on the mail.
Mail whoring is a noble profession!
3500mm rez Thrashers ftw (I missed this event, but rvb taught me that sebos are them ost powerful weapons in a cluster****)
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Meh, Caldari used to be cool.
No really. I think I will remember this as a part of Tony G's legacy; that he managed to switch position of the most and least popular empire factions with his work. Long gone are the days of an ultra efficient, militaristic and scientific leading society against French hippies.
Don't worry, CCP Falcon is carrying on the legacy as best he can.
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Well this was intresting....
Thanks for the update all :cube:
Demion
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I had two characters there, lost three ships and got on a lot of mails.
All in all, had a great time,even if it was 4am.
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Myyona & Vikarion - You would both have it that Gallente Roleplayers are resigned to playing French Hippies, and Caldari Roleplayers get to play as ultra-efficient militarists, in which case?
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Nonono. I am just thinking about the effort Tony G went through to make the under dog top dog and vice versa. Really, in the early days of EVE everybody picked Caldari because they were described as the 'awesome' faction while the Gallente most certainly were not. Things have really changed since the collection of body parts of Misu Baniya (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC106#May).
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All Caldari were also Achuran, because, you know... best stats.
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Sad I missed the big bang, but I had a great time doing the updates while it was running.
Hope you all enjoyed it :D
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Nonono. I am just thinking about the effort Tony G went through to make the under dog top dog and vice versa. Really, in the early days of EVE everybody picked Caldari because they were described as the 'awesome' faction while the Gallente most certainly were not. Things have really changed since the collection of body parts of Tunai Moran (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC106#May).
Caldari got the most attribute points in beta, and when the third bloodlines were introduced for each nation, Achura got the best base attribute distribution (charisma is a dump stat). This was the reason to roll Caldari.
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Enjoyed the clusterfuck. \o/
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Nonono. I am just thinking about the effort Tony G went through to make the under dog top dog and vice versa. Really, in the early days of EVE everybody picked Caldari because they were described as the 'awesome' faction while the Gallente most certainly were not. Things have really changed since the collection of body parts of Tunai Moran (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC106#May).
My apologies for misunderstanding. I get you now.
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Whilst I enjoyed participating in the event in Luminaire even though I pretty much knew it was a foregone conclusion that the Titan would fall despite all the hype along with the TiDi, I have this sinking feeling that the aspects I always wanted to explore with the Caldari and the State -- the depth of culture and the complexities of its corporate politics -- will continue to remain on the back-burner because any dialogue of importance will now have to revolve solely around Caldari Prime.
Added to that, there's the fact now that Caldari RP is stuck in a strange limbo where it's difficult to reconcile the aspects of its nationalism and militarism with more moderate aspects such as its corporatism or progressive politics (for the Caldari anyway). I don't know, it's getting a bit annoying being part of a faction that seems to be unable to get it together, is unstable politically, and no matter which direction you try to go within it you're faced with the potential risk of having the rug pulled from right underneath you when there's yet another game-changing point of revisionism.
Still, I had fun shooting at everything that moved all things considered.
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I'll try to restrain myself from being overly gleeful at being, essentially, proven right about the event. But I am. :D
<very definitely my opinion>
The interesting thing about this event is that this is, essentially, the destruction of the only positive point of Caldari RP left. There was a reason so much of Caldari RP has revolved around CP for the past year or three, and that was largely due to the fact that the Caldari had nothing else going for them. No one wanted to fight for Heth - one might fight for a smart villain, but not a silly and stupid one - and the megas are essentially kaput. Some of us, such as Dex, tried to continue viewing the Megas as independent entities, so CCP made sure to destroy that.
In addition to all the things that TEA took away from the Caldari as primary virtues (turns out that the Gallente are better capitalists than the Caldari, better producers, better traders, better entertainers, have a more powerful military, etc), articles have portrayed the Caldari economy as in essentially a state of collapse, while still others have made it clear that Caldari society is often violent against minorities, has a caste system, is anti-gay, is racist in significant ways (no marriage between bloodlines), and so forth. I believe that all of these, with the possible exception of the homophobia, are post-TEA, and some of them are post-TonyG. Given other chronicles and articles, the only sense of honor the Caldari do have seems to be that of fighting to the death. This has created a unique hybrid: close to the Imperial Japanese in fanaticism, to the Nazis in ethics, and to the three Stooges in competence.
Therefore, to come back to the point at hand, it will be interesting to see what other Caldari loyalists can latch onto as a motif or motive. Currently, revenge seems to be a common inclination. Not the best motivation, in my opinion, especially as it doesn't really give you something to fight for, especially when our opponents are portrayed as all that is good and right. Also, you aren't going to get it. There's nothing short of a time machine that can fix the Caldari faction at this point, and you will constantly be at the mercy of your opponents going "well, what about this?" Others seem to be going with calls for peace and grief - probably more productive, as it gives your character an excellent way to bow out of participation.
As for me and my character, I can't realistically switch sides, and after having interacted with Gallente FW, I wouldn't play a game alongside them, uh, ever. However, if I ever do have the chance to transfer SP from one character to another, Vikarion is probably biomass. In the meantime, I'm going to work to increase cynicism :P about the storyline and CCP's involvement with it, since it turns out that criticizing what I see as irritating and unfair is actually a lot of fun. I don't currently plan to engage in any future live events, since they'll almost certainly be just as rigged as this one was. Even if they are about the Caldari trashing the Gallente (yeah, right, and when pigs fly), I don't take much satisfaction from CCP devs winning my battles for me.
</very definitely my opinion>
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That's why I am somehow glad that the Titan was removed from there. It was the main thing making the whole RP situation stuck and not evolving.
Also, I do believe that TEA making the Caldari suddenly going all extremist patriots wanting to grab Caldari Prime back was one of the best mistakes done to the faction in itself. It moved the whole Caldari RP around Caldari Prime instead of their megacorporate fluff and intricacies we all know. It moved the ruthless megacorporate stuff to extremely nationalistic (I say nationalistic, not patriotic here) fascism all justified by a single piece of drama : CP.
CP even progressively tended to be some kind of RP strawman blackhole sucking out every other RP to inevitably make people come back to the CP issue. I would even argue that CP was the Caldari/Gallente slavery variant, to which everything eventually tended to revolve around.
The same way TEA shifted the Minmatar focus even more on slavery (where before it was a clear separation between the Republic and Freedom fighting).
And I believe that's what they try to change.
[ 2013.03.22 20:53:24 ] CCP Falcon > I'm a bit disheartened to be fair.
[ 2013.03.22 20:53:55 ] CCP Falcon > The reaction from a certain cross section of roleplayers.
[ 2013.03.22 20:56:52 ] CCP Falcon > People need to understand that if they feel the Caldari State is broken...
[ 2013.03.22 20:57:00 ] CCP Falcon > then there needs to be CHANGE to fix it
[ 2013.03.22 20:57:04 ] CCP Falcon > massive change....
We may agree or not with the "destroy everything before rebuilding", which has its flaws and cons (like providing a lot of RP drama and potential, but also severely harming RP targeted blocs). But that remains a valid approach, and I am utterly confused by all the fuss about it too since it has barely begun. I find it highly irrational to read so many negative comments not about how things could have been done better, but how it is actually murdering the faction even more, without even knowing the end.
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The problem is that Caldari RP isn't like a building. I can get what CCP Falcon is trying to do, IF he is trying to do that (which I have my doubts about), but it won't work, in my estimation.
The story and lore is more like a stream. You can change things - dig the channel deeper, blast holes in the banks - but you can't just shove what you want, where you want it. If you make the stream larger (add more lore) you can't just yank that away when it turns out you've ruined a fishing spot. And if you decide to dynamite the stream because you don't like what you've made of it, you aren't going to end up with a stream, you're going to get a lake.
CCP Falcon may have thought that he was getting rid of a troublesome rapid when he decided on the CP event, but the reality is, in my estimation, that he's turned it into a deep whirlpool for remaining Caldari RPers. Not only do we have precious little to seize onto, but if our characters are realistic at all, they're going to be intensely focused on the issue of Caldari Prime (and possibly revenge for it) for a long, long time. Negative events, after all, tend to be much more motivating than positive ones.
On the other hand, Falcon has also passed up some excellent opportunities for getting rid of things most RPers hated. For example, almost everyone would have been happier if Heth actually did get assassinated. It would have been "Oh, wow, guess those DUST soldiers really are a threat. Well, let's mourn the chief executor for...oh, lookie, shiny over there." Heth would have been dumped and forgotten, and then we could have had an interesting storyline where the Megas jockey for position in disassembling the CPD. And if Falcon had to throw the Favorite Faction a bone, then maybe the Megas, in their quest for profits and power, decide that they really don't feel like keeping much of a force at Caldari Prime, thus paving the way for a surprise recapture. That would have put Caldari players in the interesting position of being loyal to a nationalist cause, or loyal to the megas, without the incredibly annoying "sudden civil war" and "impossible to stop execution of protestor" storylines.
And I just thought that up in 20 minutes of writing a few posts. Considering that others have far more at their disposal, it's hard not to see the current destruction of the Caldari faction as both unnecessary, intentional, and possibly malicious.
EDIT: Also, I'm not the only Caldari RPer to note that Falcon has been remarkably reticent to talk about precisely what kind of change he wants to enact. For all we know - and it would certainly be in line with past decisions - CCP wants to turn the State into a society that enslaves minorities for the master race, a military junta, or the second installment of Sansha's Nation. (I exaggerate slightly. You get the idea, however.)
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Sorry but I am not much into that kind of analogies. It wasn't my intention to do one in the first place.
And I see things with a radically different eye. Anything can eventually be corrected or re arranged. I do not see why Caldari culture couldn't see the errors of their (new) ways and get a brutal public push to get back to the good, old and stable values. Stating the contrary seems quite... narrow minded to me. Or just like a way to willingly refuse that the possibility exists.
That's precisely why we do not know what is the end goal that "complaining" about it already really sounds irrational to me.
However yes, I agree with your own scenario with Heth assasinated. It could have been nice too. But I will wait for the end before making judgement calls all over the place.
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And I see things with a radically different eye. Anything can eventually be corrected or re arranged. I do not see why Caldari culture couldn't see the errors of their (new) ways and get a brutal public push to get back to the good, old and stable values. Stating the contrary seems quite... narrow minded to me. Or just like a way to willingly refuse that the
That doesn't work very well when everyone already has access to the fiction. The problem is that a lot of the new PF and events aren't really things you can yank. For example, the Caldari demographics article doesn't talk about what the Caldari have become, it talks about what they are, and what they have done. Same with TEA, and other events. Those things have gone on to be incorporated into stories, posts, conversations, character backstories, bios, blogs, and more, as well as the common knowledge of the player base.
You can't just yank those things or change them. If CCP pops in tomorrow and says "hey, actually, the Caldari weren't racist", then we still have all the evidence that they were: all the arguments on IGS, all the copies of TEA, TBL, and T1, and we then have to retcon all the things that the Caldari purportedly did in part because of their xenophobia and racism.
That's why I say that the Caldari lore is essentially ruined: it's become a jumble of massively contradictory facts, hysterically unrealistic narrative, incredibly unbelievable characters (Broker, Heth, etc), and it keeps getting worse. It's not now like the Caldari never had CP, no, the Caldari got it in a very bad trade, and now they lost it in another one. And in both situations, the Caldari have been painted with the blackest of moral brushes, with the whole "nuke the planet" thing being emphasized as much as possible. Even if you do want to tear down and rebuild, this isn't how you do it. This is sowing the fields with salt.
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maybe this is just me, and I'm naively optimistic, and have more faith in Falcon then I should. But Vik, have you considered the possibility that the death of the titan was the only part of the event that was on rails, and that what happens to CP will be up to the DUST players fighting on the surface, and the events supposed to be happening there all weekend?
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I think a problem with State RP at present is that whilst the Caldari State may have real or perceived flaws it was also a place that gave rise to some very competent, intelligent and able leaders like Sobaseki, Tovil-Toba or Gariushi who were able in their own ways were able to maintain the existence of the State either through their own principles, ruthlessness, political nous and talent.
I can understand some of the disappointment with the Caldari scene because the supposed tradeoffs of playing in what could be described as an authoritarian, militarized and conformist society was that it had the benefits of being highly productive, led by extremely talented individuals, promoted social conscience, whose people believed deeply in their own culture and ideals, and that was strong enough both economically and militarily that nations much larger like the Federation or Empire didn't want to trifle with Caldari.
The current portrayal of the State seems to be at odds with what has been presented in the actual fiction. The current State is one in a slow decline due to the corruption and incompetence of its leaders that collectively drove it into an economic recession and whose exploitative labour policies combined to create widespread unrest that culminated in Heth and the CPD who really aren't much better because in their haste to create a cultural revolution in the State accomplished little but empty rhetoric because they probably booted anyone with brains or talent in the Military or corporate management who didn't prescribe strongly enough to their jingoistic nationalist rhetoric resulting in people getting jobs where although they were great fork-lift drivers probably had little idea about economic policy, administration or strategy -- but at least they're loyal to the regime of the New Meritocracy.
And now as a Caldari RP'er it's like all you get is economic decline threatening collapse, incompetent or corrupt leadership, a failure of a military, rabid ultranationalism combined with populism, a centralized authority that is accountable to no one and rules through force, violence and intimidation. There's nothing inherently wrong with that so long as it was consistent with what had been presented to players, instead the situation is like telling people the State is the Roman Republic when it was kicking ass in Africa where instead it's the Republic in the time of Sulla and Caesar -- except the Caldari Dictator is an incompetent leader who got lucky because CCP wanted a war.
So now there really isn't much else to do except be a loyal Caldari legionnaire putting Gallic tribes to the sword and find enjoyment in that alone because it remains yet to be seen if the State will continue its decline or pull out of it. It's not like there's any alternative elements or personalities in the State that CCP will actually permit to support and are legitimate enough for loyal Caldari to do so anyway.
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I thought EVE lore was supposed to be contradictory, if it were to accurately reflect on humans in general.
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I still have faith that the Caldari State will pull out of this and emerge stronger for it. If we can get rid of Heth and his overt anti-
FederalGallente bullshit that's currently riding him like a demonic jock high on it's own hype, and replace him with someone who is still as much in favor of keeping the war live (got to get Caldari Prime back somehow, after all) but is more able to deal with, and thus express, the issues of running the State and the intra-State relationships that we have been deprived of for the last 5 years. Then, I'm sure we will see more diversity and genuine interest in running around being loyal to the State because it will become a freaking human society again, as opposed to this current joke of nationalistic bullshit and blind zeal in the popular party lines, where there is no problem and any internal issue is Fed propaganda or overblown minor issues or the Fed's doing to begin with.
I recall the days when I had to be careful with my RP in portraying my character who supposedly 'Understand' the Caldari sufficiently to be able to argue and converse with them and produce some honest mutual "I see where you are coming from but we will remain at odds anyhow" - because you know, conflict! :cube: As opposed to this current nearly brain-dead type of antagonism we get today, where any attempt to argue with a Caldari seem to fall on deaf ears because it's "in" for Caldari toons to not give two shits about understanding the conflict and supporting your side anyhow. It's so very easy for me to present the Fed side of any argument and for the most get ignored on purpose.
I love an intelligent, noble and capable enemy I can relate to, and while there are a number of these kinds of characters around most seem to have given up on any kind of finesse at all. The State I recall produced intelligent, cool, collected, driven, noble and loyal people who could be utterly ruthless when called for. To me it seems much of this is gone, replaced by what I would describe as a carbon-copy provist - a chest-beating, hating-on-the-fed-is-my-middle-name, raging tool good only for fighting their enemies and keeping any subtlety or character-build internal and intra-corp. I don't even feel like convoing any of these toons to strike up a conversation - what's there to talk about, how much my character is wrong and his view-points are utterly irrelevant because Heth said so?
Meh, I'm ranting. Likely some of these issues might be my own jaded viewpoint and not entirely accurate anyhow. But I do feel like since FW started the whole dynamic around the intra-Empires RP has simplified and devolved into something entirely different than what it was pre-FW. Finesse is lacking here. How about a debate or argument or even a civilized conversation around, say, the subtle points around the State-Caldari Prime relationship and the pro-Fed Caldari nations that stuck around, as opposed to the typical accusations and tendencies to ignore opposing arguments when convenient.
Anyhow, slightly more on topic, I was glad to be able to actually show up - eventually. Lost a BS after my second crash (Hi Desiderya and crew, you likely got my kill-mail ;)) but it was worth it showing up and being part of it all. I actually gathered a dozen ships there in system, among them 4 battleships. I was prepared, to say it simply, but ultimately losses were far fewer than expected. While the first crash made sure I did not get on the Titan kill-mail (a little sad for this, it would have been the only titan kill-mail worth getting on at all) I did get to play my part, so I can't bitch to loudly about it. My only annoyance with the event itself was the Goon brigade showing up to kill anyone they could for the lulz. Almost got snared on the gate with them, but did get out. Silver-lining: They were to busy killing random guys on the gates to get to the titan, and lost out on the kill-mail. The tears in local was utterly delicious.
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I find it hard to judge the storyline before it is concluded.
You can complain all the way, then a twist or revelation happens and suddenly it all makes sense.
It's difficult to have a motif to latch onto as Caldari at the moment aside the simple concept of duty. You do what needs to be done, because failure is not an option.
While we, the players, can not influence how CCP portrays the background we damn well can lead by example. The majority of interaction we have in our RP sphere is with other roleplayers, where a reputation can be build. If you want to lean back and bitch about CCP ruining it for you - go on. I doubt it'll increase your or anyone elses enjoyment, though.
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Of course you will not be able to erase history, even though biased historians of any country will always try to do so, or to minimize it. If we could do so, we would already have erased all traces of most of the worse things of human history.
But if they were able to change it in the first place to get what we have now, it is only natural that changing it again is as well as possible. I don't get the issue where a nation gets through a bad time. Until now, and that's where I disagree and will always disagree, the State was maybe butchered PF wise (like most factions btw), but it was still the side always winning and getting all the merit. In any case, governements change, cultures change, and nations and people evolve. Unless you are looking for unrealistic points of view.
When they change, particular times happen. It happened IRL with nazy Germany (Modern Republic to Fascist despotism), it happened IRL with the Revolution of 1789 (Monarchy to Modern Republic), it happened with Rome (Monarchy to Ancient Republic, and then to imperial dictatorship), etc. Some of these lasted long, others, not so much (like the 2 first ones). Do not understand me wrong, I am not making an apology of how TEA portrayed things, I think that most people agree. I say that it can happen, and it has already happened in PF, by the way. Zaragram, the Moral Reforms, Tribalism in the Republic where it was a democracy before, of Duvalier's regime.
What if I have always played a pro democracy Minmatar since the beginning ? I know that most of these have gone, but would I too not be frustrated ? I understand why you would be, but that's why I said that I see it with a completely different eye. It does not make your RP invalid or wrong. It just makes the political position of your character different. You happen to disagree with the changes or the culture where before you were in the mainstream.
So what ? That's RP material. If you play in a world like Eve and expect to see things never changing, that sounds a little naive to me.
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Also, I would like to point out that what CCP are doing is what most people have been waiting for : actually addressing what people have complained for years about PF and TEA. I am not sure that most realize that they do it mostly for us, the RP community and lore aficionados. I find it rude and disgraceful to be so vitriolic now, when it has just even started, especially after having complained so much time that nothing was done and that they had abandoned us. I also find it quite hypocritical, even if done unconsciously. Asking for something and then spitting on it with not much reason is yes... bad form and not very respectful.
You will be able to do it after if you still are not happy, no problem.
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My problem with Falcon's attitude is that, once again, there's a focus on drastic change for the sake of shocking events instead of simply tweaking the knobs here or there. There's no reason why the megas couldn't throw heth out right this minute if they wanted to; their military forces are superior to anything he could wield, even if he got the Navy on his side, and certainly there must be a lot of people in the Navy who feel very unsettled with the last five years like Svetlana does. If they merely asserted their authority, refused to recognize the CPD and Heth as having any power, and then pursued their own agenda, that would have been far more interesting and compelling to me than a fight over Caldari Prime -- but it's not as flashy for the marketing folks, and that's who this was for, make no doubt about it.
Now, to be fair, this is the death knell for Heth, I'm pretty sure. But if he ends up just getting replaced by some other singular leader, even if it's someone with great policies Svetlana loves, I'm not going to be very happy about it. And the loss of Caldari Prime pretty much dashes any hopes of a compromise with the Federation, at least for a generation.
Furthermore, the event also comes off as a bit of a damp squib because if this was all the Fderation had to do to get rid of the titan, why was it so much of a threat five years ago that the Federation couldn't fight them there? It seemed like a cakewalk for the Gallente Navy, and there were no repercussions for them. If Falcon wanted to get rid of the Titan, he should have done it in a way other than brute force -- because if brute force was all it took, it just makes the Federation look (again) like incompetent cowards for letting it sit there for 5 years.
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Not sure if your points about bitching when uncalled-for was addressed to me Lyn, so I'll clarify for the sake of it - I miss the finesse in RP that was present before, and don't like the current bluntness and simplistic approach. I still have hope that things can change for the better though, and I'm sure this event will be a good start in the right direction.
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the Caldari State ... was ... a place that gave rise to some very competent, intelligent and able leaders like ... Gariushi
IIRC, Gariushi rose first through the ranks of the Guristas and then blackmailed Ishukone into making him CEO. He is a product of the Guristas, not the modern State.
the intra-State relationships that we have been deprived of for the last 5 years
YC111 Corporate Warfare (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC111_December#Corporate_Warfare)
Black Rise Recent Events (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Black_Rise#Recent_Events)
I could not identify a SuVee corp to wardec at the time.
It's so very easy for me to present the Fed side of any argument and for the most get ignored on purpose.
I see two reasons for this. 1) The argument isn't new, as in I can link to logic provided previously to explain my position. 2) There is no logical argument to back a Caldari position (even if there may have been in the past).
Also, I would like to point out that what CCP are doing is what most people have been waiting for : actually addressing what people have complained for years about PF and TEA.
Could have started with a simpler problem and had a "low-threat" live event where the fires of Malakalen are put out.
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The other issue with with Heth's decline only happening after suffering an embarrassing defeat like this is that it makes it look like the Caldari objection to his regime is because he was a failure, not because he was wrong. This has been compounded by the fact that we haven't seen a strong opponent to Heth in years -- maybe as far back as Mens Reppola when he took over Ishukone, though he's been silent since then (much to Svetlana's frustration).
This is an issue I have with almost all of the faction storylines at the moment. Aside from the Amarr, where you have Kador and Ardishapur who actually seem to have agendas of their own that don't really match that of the Empress, there's very little visible division among the factions. I think you'd see the Caldari far less upset with the way things are going with Heth if it was clear that those who opposed him had high-level allies within the Caldari power structure, biding their time until they could finally strike. But really, there's been almost no sign over the last several years that anyone else has the same objections we do.
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I'm still hoping for an outright Caldari Civil War. One that pits the established Heth bloc against resurgent Megas and people who supported Heth until his one signature achievement, CP, was made irrelevant. Of course, fat chance of that happening. Now, any internal dissent within the State will certainly be tied to "Fed interference", and suppressed harshly. Still hoping Heth gets assassinated though.
Also, check me on something. Was Yanala a baseliner or capsuleer? Because Sak's dancing on her grave in the IGS at the moment, and she'd be disappointed if the Admiral came back from the dead.
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Capsuleer. Supposedly said so in local a few days ago.
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Not sure if your points about bitching when uncalled-for was addressed to me Lyn, so I'll clarify for the sake of it - I miss the finesse in RP that was present before, and don't like the current bluntness and simplistic approach. I still have hope that things can change for the better though, and I'm sure this event will be a good start in the right direction.
Not really adressed to you.
Anyway I agree with all of you and the concerns raised in that last page.
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I'm still hoping for an outright Caldari Civil War. One that pits the established Heth bloc against resurgent Megas and people who supported Heth until his one signature achievement, CP, was made irrelevant. Of course, fat chance of that happening. Now, any internal dissent within the State will certainly be tied to "Fed interference", and suppressed harshly. Still hoping Heth gets assassinated though.
Also, check me on something. Was Yanala a baseliner or capsuleer? Because Sak's dancing on her grave in the IGS at the moment, and she'd be disappointed if the Admiral came back from the dead.
Pretty sure she's a capsuleer. But I can imagine her having turned off or will turn off her clones and ritual suicide after waking up. I really don't expect the commander of Caldari Prime's defense fleet to want to stay among the living after defeat, capsuleer or not. Caldari honor demands her terminal resignation.
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Yeah. There's no way that she survives. Either she commits suicide, or she "commits suicide."
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I'm still hoping for an outright Caldari Civil War. One that pits the established Heth bloc against resurgent Megas and people who supported Heth until his one signature achievement, CP, was made irrelevant. Of course, fat chance of that happening. Now, any internal dissent within the State will certainly be tied to "Fed interference", and suppressed harshly.
Interesting story, not so interesting from a player perspective. I do not see it creating any emergent player conflict. I think the Mordu's Evac Operation showed this clearly.
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Yeah. There's no way that she survives. Either she commits suicide, or she "commits suicide."
Good. I think Sak has the following opinion of her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVFugFcUto
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Yeah. There's no way that she survives. Either she commits suicide, or she "commits suicide."
It could be interesting to see her Put to The Tea.
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About the Live Event
From: Katrina Oniseki
Sent: 2013.03.23 19:18
To: CCP Falcon,
Falconi Macaroni,
I just wanted to say that I still believe in you. Before you were CCP Falcon, you were my friend, and that counts for a lot. You stood up with me, with the rest of the Caldari RP scene, and said things needed to change, that certain books were bad for the storyline, that certain aspects of PF didn't make sense and cheapened it.
I also wanted to say that your event, while it may have ruffled the feathers of some players, was by all accounts a stunning success. The node didn't crash, thousands of players were involved, and I talked to many highsec noobs who had never even seen a capital ship before sit slack jawed at thirty something Moros duking it out right in front of their little condors and atrons.
I heard screams of excitement and laughter over voice comms when CONCORD got pwnt, screams that carried on for a full 5 minutes even while the FC was trying to shut us all up. I heard swears of combat frustration and excitement alike as ships were torn out from under all of us. Sure, some of us like me crashed to desktop and missed out on the big battle... but many players got to take part in a world shaping event that truly effected the factions as a whole.
Whether or not the haters hate, most of us still sit on the edge of our seat, waiting to see what happens next. Will Heth go insane? Will he have a stroke and die? Will the megas kick him out of power? Will the Federation offer CP back to the State peacefully? Will the Federation lock it down and try to oppress the Caldari on it again? Will Veroni ever get his Macaroni?
All in all, Falcon - Great job. We thank you for this, and I for one recognize that you're up there trying to help us. CCP has a bad rep, and it seems some players are arbitrarily applying that reputation to you already because you have those 3 letters before your name.... but I still believe in you.
Gurista of my heart. <3
Sincerely,
Katkat
I offer no apologies for what I wrote. You're all welcome to be harsh, but that guy is doing a lot of work up there for us. He can't please all of you, but by god he's trying to while also staying true to what CCP demands of him. This is his job after all, so he can't just do whatever you want him to do.
Imagine his frustration if CCP orders him to do something he thinks is another TonyG dumb idea, and he has no say in it. He has to do it, and hate it, and then he has to listen to you all assassinate his character because he did it. All the while, he has to stand beside his employers and defend the decision because to do otherwise would be sheer idiocy.
I'm not saying that's the case here, but it's entirely possible that a giant brawl for Caldari Prime wasn't his idea. Maybe some other posters were right, and it was marketing's idea for PAX East. Maybe Falcon had a better and more subtle intrigue idea for how to do it, but his boss said "Nope, we want a cap fight in highsec. Make it simple to understand so we can explain it to the crowd at PAX."
Falcon is one of us, people. He's not "Old CCP", and he's not TonyG. He's a regular guy who got the dream job of a lifetime, trying to make the best of it and fix what's gone wrong. He loves this game just as much as (if not more than some of) us.
TL;DR
Relax, wait, and see.
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Whether or not the haters hate, most of us still sit on the edge of our seat, waiting to see what happens next.
This x 10.
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Considering the amount of chances he has already had to do something far better than what was done, I disagree.
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I think anyone who puts this all on Falcon's shoulders and thinks this is some sort of vendetta on his part is making a huge mistake; not only does it let people dismiss any good points you might actually make as being the ramblings of someone who can't let things go, but it also trivializes the issue. This isn't a problem with Falcon having it out for the Caldari, it's a problem with the way CCP constructs the storyline and live events, and that's not Falcon's problem -- it's a problem that CCP has had for a long time, and I suspect the blame for that can be spread around outside the storyline team as well. Right now, the storyline seems to be a tool of the marketing department, and you see these kinds of live events are done less for the players in the game now than for the players they hope to pull in by using it as advertising.
The problem for me is that the game's metaplot could be used as a way to draw players in and keep them interested in the world of the game, helping player retention, but that's harder to do when the events are a lot more interesting when you have no real idea what is going on. If they want payoff for players interested in the world of the game now, they need to work on increasing the depth of the setting and making it feel more alive, rather than setting it up as something that players can see but can't touch.
So, especially for Vikarion and Laerise, please stop banging the drum and calling for Falcon's head. It makes you look like petulant whiners and makes it almost impossible for anything constructive to come out of this.
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Considering the amount of chances he has already had to do something far better than what was done, I disagree.
And I disagree with your disagreement, and in the long run both of these disagreeing disagreements are irrelevant. Only the Falcon know if it's bad or will jam effectively, either way I will be enjoying the rave party as it goes.
Less jokingly @ Kat: Why should I be harsh with you? I am not Verone's friend like you but I still agree with your basic premise and honestly, as bad as things have been they can not get much worse, so that only leave one way to go, even if I were pessimistic. And I'm not. Haters can hate all they like, I had loads of fun yesterday, the event was a smashing freaking win in all respects but one, and the PF and EVE storyline has moved forward. It remains to be seen what will happen with CP in the end and what happens with Heth or anything else, but it is still to early to cry about a future that is not here yet or assured.
Thanks for encouraging the man, btw. I had half a mind to do it myself, but was not sure if I should.
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+1 to Kat's letter. Hate me if you like.
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I, for one, am patient. Give it a year or two, and let us see how things have shaken out since Falcon took the reigns.
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There's surely more legitimate reasons to not like the guy for than things happening that he doesn't actually have any control over.
Also not his fault, but now any forum-posting unrelated to the event has to wait a week or so before the IGS gets sufficiently despammed and everyone's done posting their individual threads. Gives time for revisions, at least.
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All Caldari were also Achuran, because, you know... best stats.
The Jove body part collection event was before the "new" bloodlines were introduced. Here (http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=86533) is an nostalgic thread from that time were Silver Night gives us the population distribution a few posts down.
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What a nice letter, Kat.
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guys i don't care if you think your particular faction is being screwed, over simplified or just the plot is the kind of stuff you would buy in a supermarket.
For about 2 years there was absolutely no events whatsoever, and now we have news feeds, live events, actors posting on the official forums and people declaring their loyalty so CCP could reach you.
If someone would've told me we would enjoy such level of activity back then i would have called major shenanigans and a share of whatever you were smoking.
I still believe, like many of you, that past actions have damaged somewhat the Lore, but the good thing is that the present is ever changing and we could potentially be the witnesses of a new era in storytelling within MMOs....
I don't have hopes on what they say they will do, i have hopes seeing what they have accomplished.
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+1 on Kat's letter.
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I think anyone who puts this all on Falcon's shoulders and thinks this is some sort of vendetta on his part is making a huge mistake; not only does it let people dismiss any good points you might actually make as being the ramblings of someone who can't let things go, but it also trivializes the issue.
With respect to your perceptions of what those not on the "Falcon will fix everything" side of the argument, that's not what anyone is saying. No one is blaming Falcon for "everything". He's being blamed for what he has done. I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG, and the statements coming from CCP Falcon ("things will get better", "we have tons of amazing stuff in store", "we have to fix some things before we can be fair", etc) are the same exact things we got from TonyG.
And yes, CCP Falcon is not TonyG. But whether he has control over the story or not, whether these are all his ideas or not, he IS the face of CCP when it comes to story, and he's certainly presented himself as having at least some major influence on the story. And keep in mind that if you want to defend Falcon by claiming that he's not in charge, then you also toss out any hope of him being able to effectively change things.
So the question is not "are things as bad as they could possibly be?", but rather, "could the events and story since CCP Falcon took charge have been written and directed better than they were, and more fairly?" And the answer to that is, in my opinion, yes. And I understand that Falcon has other responsibilities, but it doesn't appear that hard.
Also, I comprehend that I'm not that actual one doing it. But that only goes so far, because I could do the work, writing, and research necessary, and have done similar projects for other things. And it doesn't take too much too plan it out. To wit:
Step one: Consider the current state of the story, list the problems and potential resolutions, outline a rough storyline with potential alternate paths for decision points, construct basic scenarios, discuss with colleagues.
Step two: contact RPers of the various factions involved, discuss how they see their faction, ask what they would be willing to give up, and what they would like to gain. Make no promises or offers, but use information to balance actual and potential wins and losses across storyline.
Step three: Roughly plan out the actual news items and events for each story event and decision point. Create carry-over conditions from an event's win/loss for each faction. If possible, maintain a fairly even balance between sides in any event, but tilt slightly to the side that lost last time, to prevent discouragement. Plan scripted events for only the most vital plots.
Step four: Communicate to players (any good DM of a PnP game does this, BTW) the essential nature of the arc, the rough end goals ("both the State and the Federation are growing restive about Heth - who is going to do something about it, and how?"), and ask for any final feedback.
Step five: Execute. Plan each actual event a week and a half to two weeks out, providing initially just a warning, and then fleshing in with pre-written news articles and IGS posts. If manpower is a problem, offer certain actor positions to trustworthy community members during an event. Reward faithful execution of an event with a minor but special item. After the event is finished, analyze for any potential carry-over effects to the next event (hey, some of the enemy ships got away from the players - maybe they show up in the next event!) and start posting the news articles written for the success and failure of each side (these should be written before the event, with blanks for event-specific details). Begin preparation for next event.
It's probably incredibly arrogant to post this. I am, after all, not privy to all the details of CCP Falcon's job and responsibilities. But, that aside, is there anyone who thinks that the above would be worse? And, if so, why?
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Back on track a bit: Since it seems pretty well determined now that the DUST events are what is actually going to determine stuff, have we any updated information on them?
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Back on track a bit: Since it seems pretty well determined now that the DUST events are what is actually going to determine stuff, have we any updated information on them?
Update: 04:00 UTC
Front line correspondents are reporting that the State Protectorate are defending with 1967 victories and the Federal Defence Union have successfully attacked 2082 engagements.
Link (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=638204#post638204)
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I'm glad to see events coming back, and I don't see the Caldari losing Caldari Prime as evidence that Caldari RPers are getting the short end of the stick. I've felt pretty much from the start that in terms of a plot device, the occupation and the Titan were not realistic, at least if the State leadership was minimally competent - I always thought it was more an anchor attached the the neck of Caldari RP, making it hard to go elsewhere. This resolution may not have been the most flattering, but it is a resolution of that particular piece of the TEA legacy - and I think it gives everyone in the State interesting hooks for RP. If you're Anti-Heth, it is Heth's fault (and makes a good reason to come out a bit more publicly against him, now that he can be accused of 'losing Caldari Prime'.) If you are pro-Heth, or even Heth-neutral, it is a call to arms against the 'aggression' of the Gallente.
Frankly, OOC, I'm not sure I can think of a lot of ways the situation could have been resolved better, from my viewpoint. IC is a different matter, of course. But I think this puts us on the path to if not the old status quo that some of us remember fondly, then a new era. And I think it is particularly impressive given the restrains were no doubt 'flashy event' and 'dust related' that they managed to get it done this way.
All that, plus we are actually getting events again, which is beautiful. Also, the actual integration with Dust (which I wasn't so sure about) was pretty awesome - at least as far as RP that happened afterward and whatnot. I'm glad to see Dusties showing up on the RP scene.
Anyway, for my money (which CCP has a lot of by this point) they are doing things pretty much right, I'm happy to see it, and I hope the continue to fix the mistakes they made in the past.
The post-event RP has been pretty cool, reminds me a lot of the stuff we did post Malkalen (except unlike there, the big events part didn't happen over DT with no player interaction). I hope that the official events are successful in creating a lot more sort of 'collateral' RP that is connected but not necessarily part of the main arcs like that.
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I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG, and the statements coming from CCP Falcon ("things will get better", "we have tons of amazing stuff in store", "we have to fix some things before we can be fair", etc) are the same exact things we got from TonyG.
And yes, CCP Falcon is not TonyG.
Quoting the relevant parts.
But you're saying you know he's not TonyG, but you're treating him with outright hostility in your posts for using a same generic sentence that TonyG used with zero knowledge of the longterm scenario?
Seriously, Vik you need to sit back and let things unfold, because right now you've no idea what's coming but you're already acting like you hate it.
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I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG, and the statements coming from CCP Falcon ("things will get better", "we have tons of amazing stuff in store", "we have to fix some things before we can be fair", etc) are the same exact things we got from TonyG.
And yes, CCP Falcon is not TonyG.
Quoting the relevant parts.
But you're saying you know he's not TonyG, but you're treating him with outright hostility in your posts for using a same generic sentence that TonyG used with zero knowledge of the longterm scenario?
Seriously, Vik you need to sit back and let things unfold, because right now you've no idea what's coming but you're already acting like you hate it.
You quote what I wrote, but then make a statement a reading of my quote would have refuted. To repeat, "I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG". In other words, the "hostility" is due to the fact that there is no effective difference between the portrayals either Dev has painted of the factions.
Take the current event. CCP could have avoided - simply by a lack of action - making the Caldari look like genocidal maniacs, but instead they went to every effort to make sure everyone realized that the Caldari intended to glass the planet, but the Gallente got there just in time. Bonus points for having them also shoot down the CONCORD spectator. I'm surprised they didn't also have a few kittens crucified.
That's not "grey and grey". That's not nuanced. This is "the Gallente are totally awesome and wonderful who rescue the planet just in time, and the Caldari are nutty genocidal space nazis who, nonetheless, are less competent firing a Titan superweapon than a first time titan pilot". So no, I'm not faulting Falcon for TonyG's stuff. I'm faulting Falcon for his own storytelling. Because, so far, he appears to be working very hard to out-TonyG at portraying the Caldari as Always Chaotic Evil.
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I want a civil war so bad. The amount of material generated would be gargantuan. Does the liberal bloc break off and make a new state with the Mordu's and Intaki Separatists? Does the megacorps have a huge war to see who is top dog again to stack the CEP with their choices? While anything is happening during the rush to fill the power vacuum do the Guristas move harder into the Mito constellation? So many options.
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Meanwhile, the narrative being argued rather successfully is that she could have glassed the planet but chose, rather deliberately, not to. Given that we all know, and that Falcon knows, it doesn't take a doomsday weapon that long to spool up, what conclusion might we draw from the Shiigeru taking so long to do so?
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I would suggest that equating Heth with the State will end with unhappiness if the goal here is (in part) to undo Heth. Heth is presumably the one who gave the order, after all. And Heth != All Caldari.
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I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG, and the statements coming from CCP Falcon ("things will get better", "we have tons of amazing stuff in store", "we have to fix some things before we can be fair", etc) are the same exact things we got from TonyG.
And yes, CCP Falcon is not TonyG.
Quoting the relevant parts.
But you're saying you know he's not TonyG, but you're treating him with outright hostility in your posts for using a same generic sentence that TonyG used with zero knowledge of the longterm scenario?
Seriously, Vik you need to sit back and let things unfold, because right now you've no idea what's coming but you're already acting like you hate it.
You quote what I wrote, but then make a statement a reading of my quote would have refuted. To repeat, "I'm not claiming that Falcon is responsible for TonyG's stuff, I'm saying that the stuff that has come out since Falcon became the face of Eve story is precisely the same kind of stuff we got from TonyG". In other words, the "hostility" is due to the fact that there is no effective difference between the portrayals either Dev has painted of the factions.
Take the current event. CCP could have avoided - simply by a lack of action - making the Caldari look like genocidal maniacs, but instead they went to every effort to make sure everyone realized that the Caldari intended to glass the planet, but the Gallente got there just in time. Bonus points for having them also shoot down the CONCORD spectator. I'm surprised they didn't also have a few kittens crucified.
That's not "grey and grey". That's not nuanced. This is "the Gallente are totally awesome and wonderful who rescue the planet just in time, and the Caldari are nutty genocidal space nazis who, nonetheless, are less competent firing a Titan superweapon than a first time titan pilot". So no, I'm not faulting Falcon for TonyG's stuff. I'm faulting Falcon for his own storytelling. Because, so far, he appears to be working very hard to out-TonyG at portraying the Caldari as Always Chaotic Evil.
Really? I'm seeing the current narrative as Heth clinging onto his regime by doing everything he can no matter how hard it goes against the State, which is even rebelling against him and paying for it with their lives.
That's not whitewashing the State, it's painting an element of the State and setting up for a longer story.
And really, if you thought the Gallente were all sunshine and roses during TonyG's era, remember we had a Caldari Titan in Luminaire, the fleet getting it's arse handed to it with wreckages that are still around, the Broker framing one of the Federation's best Admirals and painting him a War Criminal who's name is forever shamed and spoken of as if he were a monster. A bumbling president who couldn't keep the corporations in check and lost control leading to his resignation, and a snivelling little shitehawk who runs a secret police that totally goes against everything the Federation is suppose to stand for.
But sure, go ahead with thinking the Federation gets all the good stuff.
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Really? I'm seeing the current narrative as Heth clinging onto his regime by doing everything he can no matter how hard it goes against the State, which is even rebelling against him and paying for it with their lives.
That's not whitewashing the State, it's painting an element of the State and setting up for a longer story.
And really, if you thought the Gallente were all sunshine and roses during TonyG's era, remember we had a Caldari Titan in Luminaire, the fleet getting it's arse handed to it with wreckages that are still around, the Broker framing one of the Federation's best Admirals and painting him a War Criminal who's name is forever shamed and spoken of as if he were a monster. A bumbling president who couldn't keep the corporations in check and lost control leading to his resignation, and a snivelling little shitehawk who runs a secret police that totally goes against everything the Federation is suppose to stand for.
But sure, go ahead with thinking the Federation gets all the good stuff.
I don't want to derail the discussion, because then it gets locked, so I can't really talk about why I think you are wrong. However, if you like, message me with everything the Gallente got shafted on in TEA, and I'll give you 2-4 things the Caldari got just like it, or worse.
As to the narrative regarding the Titan's superweapon, I am totally bullshitting on the IGS. Everyone knows that CCP couldn't actually fire the superweapon at the planet without some recoding, so they were just doing their best to make it look as bad as possible. I probably shouldn't be bullshitting ICly, since the goal of the Devs is the highest kilonazi rating for the Caldari as possible, but it looked like some people were having fun claiming to have saved the day, and I wanted to ruin it for them. :twisted:
And Silver, Word of God from CCP and from much of the Caldari articles is that your average Caldari supports Heth and his aims - I even have an evemail from a Heth-opposed actor confirming this. So, in other words, all Caldari are evil bastards.
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I suppose we will see if that remains the case when it goes from 'taking back the home world' to 'trying to glass the homeworld'. It's possible it may, but I'm willing to wait and see. Regardless we know that even though he enjoys substantial support it isn't universal - particularly among corporate leadership.
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Meanwhile, the narrative being argued rather successfully is that she could have glassed the planet but chose, rather deliberately, not to. Given that we all know, and that Falcon knows, it doesn't take a doomsday weapon that long to spool up, what conclusion might we draw from the Shiigeru taking so long to do so?
I had hoped this was the case, but analyzing the logs showed that she actually announced being unable to fire.
I'm inclined to think it was sabotaged. Going by the belief that this entire buildup, from the planet riots to the naval assault, has been a Black Eagles-orchestrated special operations campaign, a sabotage explains just why the Federation was willing to risk an attack. I really don't think the Federation would have risked an attack if they didn't have some way of preventing the Levi from firing. A sabotage is the most likely explanation for why they finally decided to launch an attack.
My personal conclusion is: Leftover militants on the planet from the One Day War arm and train populace. They are somehow are able to get into clandestine contact with the Federation outside the planet, and begin planning to initiate an uprising once BE gives the word. BE meanwhile works on installing/developing agents in the Caldari State (something Heth seemingly got wind of, going by his sudden scrambling to take down Fed elements within the State), one of whom happens to get installed on the Leviathan, in doomsday operation. With that operative able to sabotage the Leviaathan and insure it could not bombard the planet, BE triggers the plan, ordering the insurgents on the planet to rise up, sending in mercenaries, and pulling off a portion of the Fed fleet for "naval exercises" in preparation to jump them back into Luminaire space once the time is right.
Whether CONCORD was involved in the plan or just happened to at the wrong place at the wrong time I'm unsure. But the rest all reeks of pretty classic unconventional warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconventional_warfare_(United_States_Department_of_Defense_doctrine)#The_Seven-Step_Operational_Model), and it follows the Seven Step Operational Model pretty much to the letter. Unconventional warfare is, of course, BE specialty, and if this is what happened, it shows how badass BE are. BE are what the Provists should have been, ruthless and competent. Of course, this really supports Vikarion's comments about Gallente always getting the better deal. <.<
So while I'd have loved for Yanala to have actually willingly withheld, and I think that would have been the best outcome for the Caldari as it would have given them the moral highground, it's seeming more likely to me that the Levi's ability to bombard was simply sabotaged.
There's also been Caellech's argument that the Leviathan had moved out of range, and that's why it wouldn't fire, though that then puts us back into the boat of, "why did the Federation choose to risk the bombardment?" (it also brings up the question of why would Yanala have attempted to fire while out of range, which would have been an incredibly noobish thing to do). Sabotage is the one thing that both explains why the Levi wouldn't fire and why the Fed chose to finally launch an assault.
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Unconventional warfare is, of course, BE specialty, and if this is what happened, it shows how badass BE are. BE are what the Provists should have been, ruthless and competent. Of course, this really supports Vikarion's comments about Gallente always getting the better deal. <.<
So while I'd have loved for Yanala to have actually willingly withheld, and I think that would have been the best outcome for the Caldari as it would have given them the moral highground, it's seeming more likely to me that the Levi's ability to bombard was simply sabotaged.
SITYS :D
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I'm not sure about the sabotage to the Titan necessarily being proven, and if it were proven there's still the strong possibility that a Caldari faction might have been behind it - what with the difficulty of getting the right agent to the right place at the right time.
Regarding the insurgency on Caldari Prime - it is far more likely that the continuous low level resistance was indigent and that the recent escalation of violence was not only funded and equipped from off-planet, but that it was actually carried out be Gallente Special Forces groups directly.
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The sabotage theory is nearly impossible; the Oblivion was already activated once - against the CONCORD battleship. For it to have been sabotage the act would have had to have been committed after that event, a mere 1-2 hours before it started trying to fire on the planet. That, or the nature of the sabotage would have meant that the weapon had to be fired at least once before it broke down, but the Gallente had no way of knowing it would first be used on CONCORD unless they staged that as well.
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One could argue that the Gallente vessels were focus-firing the sub-systems of the titan and targeting areas that were vital to the operation of the doomsday weapon. I know we can't do that in the game but there's nothing saying it couldn't happen.
Essentially, since the used reason for failure was reactor failures, the Gallente specifically targeted the reactor chambers on the ship with high-impact anti-matter rounds, resulting in a field disruption of the reactors and eventual meltdown. Just a thought.
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One could argue that the Gallente vessels were focus-firing the sub-systems of the titan and targeting areas that were vital to the operation of the doomsday weapon. I know we can't do that in the game but there's nothing saying it couldn't happen.
Essentially, since the used reason for failure was reactor failures, the Gallente specifically targeted the reactor chambers on the ship with high-impact anti-matter rounds, resulting in a field disruption of the reactors and eventual meltdown. Just a thought.
Not a viable strategy for a weapon that takes only ten seconds to fire and had been spooled and loaded ahead of time. You'd have more luck designing an anti-missile system that is able to shoot down the missiles after they've launched than somehow breaking through the shields and disabling the reactors fast enough to prevent launch. Of course, the Federation could have counted on the Shiigeru firing one shot (treating the first shot as acceptable casualties), and then getting it disabled in the ten minutes before it can fire a second shot. But there's no way the Federation fleet could have prevented it from firing at least once without some kind of outside interference (sabotage, willful hesitation, range, etc).
Although, I could possibly see the fleet having designed some form of advanced tracking disruption that could somehow affect a Titan (which would explain why the Shiigeru needed to move closer to the planet, as its standard optimal range would have been negated). Like sabotage, development of such would have given the Federation reason to believe it could prevent a launch, and therefore encouraged them to take the risk of launching an assault. There was no indication of anything like this during the event, though.
Either way, all speculation at this point. There's a lot of things it could have been, but not enough details are available to be able to come up with a concrete theory yet. Just hope we'll get a news report giving us the facts. :)
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Towards the very end, the primary reactor had containment failures, and they had to start using the secondary reactor, which quickly got overloaded trying to hold the shields (it seems). So that at least prevented her firing at the very end.
As for why she didn't fire earlier, it was a positioning thing. Not sure if it was range or just positioning (while the missiles can do their own navigation, it seemed to need to be positioned right to get all the missiles to hit all the different targets in one salvo which is more or less what it gets before everyone turns on it). I don't think it was sabotage due to it firing earlier at the CONCORD battleship. And whether or not Yanala was purposely holding off the trigger, I don't know. All Grid knows is he saw a Titan that was seriously threatening to bombard the planet with missile silos open and primed to fire at a moment's notice.
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As for why she didn't fire earlier, it was a positioning thing. Not sure if it was range or just positioning (while the missiles can do their own navigation, it seemed to need to be positioned right to get all the missiles to hit all the different targets in one salvo which is more or less what it gets before everyone turns on it). I don't think it was sabotage due to it firing earlier at the CONCORD battleship. And whether or not Yanala was purposely holding off the trigger, I don't know. All Grid knows is he saw a Titan that was seriously threatening to bombard the planet with missile silos open and primed to fire at a moment's notice.
It's not a matter of positioning, since the Oblivion is capable of firing at targets behind the ship. The Shiigeru could have been facing away from the planet and still DD'ed it, as long as it was in range.
Range seems to be the main culprit--though what's up in the air is why it was out of range. She'd moved into position ahead of time, and logs seem to show that Yanala honestly thought she was in range when she attempted to fire. So if she was out of range that first time, it would have been because she made a huge rookie mistake and miscalculated her distance from the planet and was forced to adjust to the proper distance after making that realization (this seems highly unlikely to me, considering her experience). The other alternatives are that the weapon or the ship's targeting systems was sabotaged, the Federation employed some sort of advanced TD that could disrupt the Titan's normal optimal range (or some sort of target breaker preventing her from achieving a stable lock. Still a case of advanced EWAR), or Yanala had no intention of firing and used the range comment as an excuse to her fleet (not very likely at this point).
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As for why she didn't fire earlier, it was a positioning thing. Not sure if it was range or just positioning (while the missiles can do their own navigation, it seemed to need to be positioned right to get all the missiles to hit all the different targets in one salvo which is more or less what it gets before everyone turns on it). I don't think it was sabotage due to it firing earlier at the CONCORD battleship. And whether or not Yanala was purposely holding off the trigger, I don't know. All Grid knows is he saw a Titan that was seriously threatening to bombard the planet with missile silos open and primed to fire at a moment's notice.
It's not a matter of positioning, since the Oblivion is capable of firing at targets behind the ship. The Shiigeru could have been facing away from the planet and still DD'ed it, as long as it was in range.
Range seems to be the main culprit--though what's up in the air is why it was out of range. She'd moved into position ahead of time, and logs seem to show that Yanala honestly thought she was in range when she attempted to fire. So if she was out of range that first time, it would have been because she made a huge rookie mistake and miscalculated her distance from the planet and was forced to adjust to the proper distance after making that realization (this seems highly unlikely to me, considering her experience). The other alternatives are that the weapon or the ship's targeting systems was sabotaged, the Federation employed some sort of advanced TD that could disrupt the Titan's normal optimal range (or some sort of target breaker preventing her from achieving a stable lock. Still a case of advanced EWAR), or Yanala had no intention of firing and used the range comment as an excuse to her fleet (not very likely at this point).
Positioning isn't the same thing as orientation. The titan wasn't going to shoot a single location, but multiple locations all across the planet. This might necessitate things such as the missiles using orbital trajectories to get the required range to hit their targets (or avoid terrain, bypass captured surface defences, etc). Moving around would necessitate recalculating such trajectories (which might take time depending on the complexity), and some targets might be impossible to hit from the new position. Not to mention that the planet was "rotating" the whole time, so the targets would also be shifting from previously calculated locations. (Of course, most of the above is speculation on my part, so it might be the case that the Titan can just sit anywhere in range of the planet and press teh buttan!)
And it wasn't just the Oblivion that was going to fire. It was also the citadel missiles the Titan carried. Mind you, they don't need to be facing their targets either, but the missiles launched rear silos at least would have a little bit longer to travel than the ones from the fore silos if the titan is pointing towards the planet (as it was).
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The sabotage theory is nearly impossible; the Oblivion was already activated once - against the CONCORD battleship. For it to have been sabotage the act would have had to have been committed after that event, a mere 1-2 hours before it started trying to fire on the planet. That, or the nature of the sabotage would have meant that the weapon had to be fired at least once before it broke down, but the Gallente had no way of knowing it would first be used on CONCORD unless they staged that as well.
That
As for why she didn't fire earlier, it was a positioning thing. Not sure if it was range or just positioning (while the missiles can do their own navigation, it seemed to need to be positioned right to get all the missiles to hit all the different targets in one salvo which is more or less what it gets before everyone turns on it). I don't think it was sabotage due to it firing earlier at the CONCORD battleship. And whether or not Yanala was purposely holding off the trigger, I don't know. All Grid knows is he saw a Titan that was seriously threatening to bombard the planet with missile silos open and primed to fire at a moment's notice.
It's not a matter of positioning, since the Oblivion is capable of firing at targets behind the ship. The Shiigeru could have been facing away from the planet and still DD'ed it, as long as it was in range.
Range seems to be the main culprit--though what's up in the air is why it was out of range. She'd moved into position ahead of time, and logs seem to show that Yanala honestly thought she was in range when she attempted to fire. So if she was out of range that first time, it would have been because she made a huge rookie mistake and miscalculated her distance from the planet and was forced to adjust to the proper distance after making that realization (this seems highly unlikely to me, considering her experience). The other alternatives are that the weapon or the ship's targeting systems was sabotaged, the Federation employed some sort of advanced TD that could disrupt the Titan's normal optimal range (or some sort of target breaker preventing her from achieving a stable lock. Still a case of advanced EWAR), or Yanala had no intention of firing and used the range comment as an excuse to her fleet (not very likely at this point).
Maybe Yanala was actually not being honest when telling that she was in range.
Speculation indeed, and I find it not especially useful to have it OOCly rather than ICly.
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Was nagging Falcon about this in OOC last night. He said clarification will be coming in a news post soon.
The speculation is interesting, but it's turning fast into one of those endless circle debates people get stuck on for years. The more interesting discussion will be who ordered the use of the strike in the first place, and the fallout that will have.
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Ugh, I really wish Falcon would stop talking to people OOC like that. If you want to show something, show it, don't tell it. Drives me up the wall having them break the fourth wall like that. I don't care if you're his friend or not...he should know better.
For much the same reason, I wish they would not announce this crap beforeheand, because it leads to everyone and their mother trying to join in and the generally retarded atmosphere that tends to follow these. If you want to give hints something big is happening, fine, say tensions are escalating in news stories or whatever, maybe give a hint that "something" is happening some morning or whatever, but they basically telegraphed this whole thing, which drives me a lot more nuts than almost anything else.
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I disagree. He's not given details as to what will be revealed, there haven't been plot spoilers of any kind. He just stated that everything will be explained in time, it was more a reassurance that the story isn't just ending with the Titan blowing up and ROLL CREDITS.
Honestly, I can appreciate your point of view, but he's not sat here feeding spoilers or even hints.
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If they want to convince people that the story isn't over and that things are still happening, though...then they should show that things are still happening, not post in the Live Events forum saying "things are happening, trust us" or telling you or anyone else via email. I would never send Falcon (or anyone else I know who works at CCP) email asking that kind of thing, and I wouldn't expect them to give it. It't bad for immersion and it's bad because it can lead to that same type of cliquishness that contributes to accusations of favoritism, no matter how outlandish they may be. Communicate the storyline through the storyline.
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Titan doomsdays are hardcoded not to work in high sec. There was no way we could used it without rewriting fundamental game code, something that wasn't feasible.
Link (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780561#post2780561)
Therefore:
the Oblivion was already activated once - against the CONCORD battleship.
Is not true mechanically nor is it captured in the news article (http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=concord-vessel-destroyed-by-caldari-navy-in-luminaire).
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I have to disagree, Svet. Ignoring concerns raised by customers is poor business practice, and where corporate rollout procedures don't permit immediate formal response, holding statements like 'an answer is coming' or, in another example 'that killmail will be posted' (for the titan KM) are appropriate. Falcon isn't giving any information informally, only indicating that information will be forthcoming at a future time.
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Titan doomsdays are hardcoded not to work in high sec. There was no way we could used it without rewriting fundamental game code, something that wasn't feasible.
Link (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780561#post2780561)
Therefore:
the Oblivion was already activated once - against the CONCORD battleship.
Is not true mechanically nor is it captured in the news article (http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=concord-vessel-destroyed-by-caldari-navy-in-luminaire).
To be absolutely, totally, one-hundred-percent clear on this: What happened is the CONCORD battleship was killed using a GM /kill command; Admiral Yanala then immediately posted in local that the Oblivion was on "cooldown". This was taken by a great many people - myself included - to mean that the Oblivion was, in-character, fired against the CONCORD battleship.
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Titan doomsdays are hardcoded not to work in high sec. There was no way we could used it without rewriting fundamental game code, something that wasn't feasible.
Link (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780561#post2780561)
Therefore:
the Oblivion was already activated once - against the CONCORD battleship.
Is not true mechanically nor is it captured in the news article (http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=concord-vessel-destroyed-by-caldari-navy-in-luminaire).
To be absolutely, totally, one-hundred-percent clear on this: What happened is the CONCORD battleship was killed using a GM /kill command; Admiral Yanala then immediately posted in local that the Oblivion was on "cooldown". This was taken by a great many people - myself included - to mean that the Oblivion was, in-character, fired against the CONCORD battleship.
This. While they could not mechanically fire the DD, they did so *IC* - I.E hand waving it and saying it happened.
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Just for the record, someone got the Titan loot. All of it was Caldari Navy faction mods, 1 invul, 1 EM ward, 1 thermic ward, 1 explosive ward and two power diagnostic systems.
Also dropped were 3 Citadel launchers and the Oblivion, but I don't know if anyone got those due to their size.
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The Caldari are currently 500 victories ahead of the Federation with 7276 against 6770 as of 0200 UTC.
Whether this will hold when the smoke clears and orbital dominance starts to show, who knows, but for now, it appears that the State has Caldari Prime surface operations in a death grip. This may be the last day of the CP DUST514 event too, so watch this space.
-UPDATE-
Confirmed that the FDU/SPROT suit event finishes at 11:00 GMT/UTC, leaving just over an hour for the gap to be closed. I eagerly await news based on these developments. Well done to all mercenaries involved.
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I would be very surprised if a DUST 514 result favoring the Caldari has any impact at all upon the storyline. Somewhat divorced from my general cynicism about Falcon and CCP, as a practical matter the dusties can't choose the side they fight on in a particular match, and while I have heard of a lot of dusties trying to throw matches, it seems like a rather difficult mechanism for loyalty to operate through. Somewhat unrealistic.
I can just see it:
Player 1: "Hey, why are you sitting in the operations room playing solitaire? We're supposed to be out fighting for the Fed!"
Player 2: "For the State!"
Anyway, with the scripted event over CP having the Leviathan destroyed, it seems that CCP is bent on reverting CP to Fed control. So, if the State wins on the ground, this will present some serious problems for that storyline. In that case they have a few options:
1. (Least likely) The State wins. Dusties and Caldari civvies on the ground effectively tell the Federation to fuck off.
2. (Most likely, at this point): The State wins. This is written into a stalemate situation, giving the Fed a chance to have another go, or to maintain a constant level of battle.
3. State wins. CCP writes it up as a Gallente victory anyway, possibly through an applied Macguffin or another scripted space event.
4. Fed wins. They get CP, and we get a few weeks of news articles about all of Tibus Heth's death camps.
5. Fed wins, but is written up as a stalemate, or there are still resisters. This allows for future battles and a continuation in the Dust map roster.
For my money, I'm betting on option 2. I don't see how there's any way CCP would give the State a clear cut victory on the ground, if for no other reason than that they then can't use that really pretty Titan map (I think - it is beta, after all).
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2 does seem a fairly credible output, if only because 500 victory difference out of a sample set nearing 13,000 battles seems like a truly marginal victory for either side.
We should start hearing about the results this week, but the potential for Caldari Prime to become a crucible of war, if only because of the amazing sky box, is definitely there.
Personally, I am interested to see if we'll get an event when the Drone Swarm coop mode makes it;s debut. But before then I'd definitely want to be able to pick sides in future inter-faction conflicts. I got lucky and 8/10 games I got Caldari alignment, but I hated having to drop matches when I got dumped with the FDU.
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If people can't pick their side, then 500 truly is a large difference, even out of 13,000. Given that one would expect a 50/50 split, one would not expect most fluctuations to go that large. OTOH, that was hours ago.
Also, there's one other possibility, since it seems that it is CCP keeping tabs, and that is that CCP is simply going to report what is most convenient for the pre-written storyline. Yes, yes, very cynical, I know.
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UPDATE
Caldari have won with 8006 victories to 7427.
Now to wait and see what happens as a result.
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UPDATE
Caldari have won with 8006 victories to 7427.
Now to wait and see what happens as a result.
Cool. Also, I'll point out that if they do go with option 2, it will once again be an instance of "If Gallente win = epic victory!/If Caldari win = status quo until Gallente try again".
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I'm confident that no matter what happens, someone will cry foul: CCP conspiracy/bias/fail.
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Trailer is up on IGN: http://t.co/p1gISLDlOl
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Realistically, the Gallente have won the planet. The Caldari might hold the surface for a certain time, but cut off from supplies and without orbital support, they'll be reduced to an insurgency. Not to say that an insurgency can't do some damage, or last awhile, but de facto control of CP was awarded to the Fed the moment that Titan and its escorts bit the dust.
No pun intended.
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Realistically, the Gallente have won the planet. The Caldari might hold the surface for a certain time, but cut off from supplies and without orbital support, they'll be reduced to an insurgency. Not to say that an insurgency can't do some damage, or last awhile, but de facto control of CP was awarded to the Fed the moment that Titan and its escorts bit the dust.
No pun intended.
"We survived on this world for thousands of years without the Gallente. Do they think we will starve now?"
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Realistically, the Gallente have won the planet. The Caldari might hold the surface for a certain time, but cut off from supplies and without orbital support, they'll be reduced to an insurgency. Not to say that an insurgency can't do some damage, or last awhile, but de facto control of CP was awarded to the Fed the moment that Titan and its escorts bit the dust.
No pun intended.
"We survived on this world for thousands of years without the Gallente. Do they think we will starve now?"
Very likely not. But gear and ammo will gradually be used up, and resupply will be what can be brought in on blockade runners and covert ops ships (or, possibly, by a very sneaky Ishukone). Insurgencies tend to wither and die without outside support.
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CCP went and had a little fun (http://s13.postimg.org/te4lypinq/2013_03_26_12_33_43.jpg) in the patch today.
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CCP went and had a little fun (http://s13.postimg.org/te4lypinq/2013_03_26_12_33_43.jpg) in the patch today.
Anslo (c) is horrified and fears for the people. Anslo (p) thinks that shit kicks ass and wants more titan dropping for planet scarring.
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Looks like CCP went for a minor Federal victory, with the Federation controlling some districts, possessing a beachhead, and having captured the Titan crash site.
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"We must be thankful that only part of the Shiigeru entered the atmosphere, and that the most volatile components of the vessel, the reactor cores and engineering decks, were destroyed in orbit. Had they made it to the surface and detonated on impact, the result would no doubt have been an extinction level event for Caldari Prime.”" - Dust begins to clear, full extent of Shiigeru impact now clear (http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/dust-begins-to-clear-full-extent-of-shiigeru-impact-now-clear/)
This quote in my mind really paints the Feds as the ones in the wrong for making the attack. Them choosing to assault the fleet quite possibly threatened more damage to the planet than anything the Provists would have done if left alone (even if they had fired, Heth's threat had only been to Gallente districts, not the entire planet). If they hadn't managed to contain the reactor sections in orbit, the planet would be over.
So. Bad Feds.
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On the other hand, the Titan was a loaded and armed gun that could've been pointed (and fired) at Gallente Prime at any moment.
There's lots of ways to spin this. If nothing else, it'll provide some actually fresh, usable material for IC debates for the first time in a long while.
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This quote in my mind really paints the Feds as the ones in the wrong for making the attack.
Um, no. This is "the Caldari destroyed their own planet by intentionally placing a Titan over it in low orbit to make sure the Gallente couldn't stop it without mass civilian casualties, even if they did manage to prevent an orbital bombardment".
The way this whole event has been set up is that the Caldari were going to bombard the planet, the Gallente attacked to prevent it, so the Caldari made sure that at least the Titan would wreck the biosphere.
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"We must be thankful that only part of the Shiigeru entered the atmosphere, and that the most volatile components of the vessel, the reactor cores and engineering decks, were destroyed in orbit. Had they made it to the surface and detonated on impact, the result would no doubt have been an extinction level event for Caldari Prime.”" - Dust begins to clear, full extent of Shiigeru impact now clear (http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/dust-begins-to-clear-full-extent-of-shiigeru-impact-now-clear/)
This quote in my mind really paints the Feds as the ones in the wrong for making the attack. Them choosing to assault the fleet quite possibly threatened more damage to the planet than anything the Provists would have done if left alone (even if they had fired, Heth's threat had only been to Gallente districts, not the entire planet). If they hadn't managed to contain the reactor sections in orbit, the planet would be over.
So. Bad Feds.
It's not possible to scale down a Titan DD shot, and Titan DD shots are planet-killers by default. 7 kilometer long piece of man-made material and a hailstorm of debris raining down over even half the planet is better, by a long shot, than extinction and unhabitability for decades or centuries to come.
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Realistically, the Gallente have won the planet. The Caldari might hold the surface for a certain time, but cut off from supplies and without orbital support, they'll be reduced to an insurgency. Not to say that an insurgency can't do some damage, or last awhile, but de facto control of CP was awarded to the Fed the moment that Titan and its escorts bit the dust.
No pun intended.
"We survived on this world for thousands of years without the Gallente. Do they think we will starve now?"
It's one thing to endure a blockade of your society for a long time... it's another thing to resist the blockade while engaging in ground combat against Federal troops, running out of materiel, and any time you concentrate your forces orbital firepower can be brought to bear against you.
Again, I fully anticipate that guerilla operations could continue for quite some time, but they won't be able to openly control the planet... now, the equation changes if they had planet-to-surface weaponry they controlled...
Regarding the graphics update to CP? Fuck yes. Fed Navy definitely gets props for having balls and seizing the moment, even if there's some decent collateral damage on the surface.
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Looks like CCP went for a minor Federal victory, with the Federation controlling some districts, possessing a beachhead, and having captured the Titan crash site.
Analysis of contact reports from both parties suggests that the Provist occupation force maintains a shaky grasp on most districts. (http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/dust-begins-to-clear-full-extent-of-shiigeru-impact-now-clear/)
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Looks like CCP went for a minor Federal victory, with the Federation controlling some districts, possessing a beachhead, and having captured the Titan crash site.
Analysis of contact reports from both parties suggests that the Provist occupation force maintains a shaky grasp on most districts. (http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/dust-begins-to-clear-full-extent-of-shiigeru-impact-now-clear/)
Yeah, here's the thing: when the event started, how many districts did the Federation hold? Zilch. How many do they hold now? Some, including the crashed Titan. If you are being invaded, it's not a victory if the invaders don't kick you off the planet, it's just less of a defeat. On D-day in WW2, the allies certainly didn't do as well as they could have on some beaches, but it was still a victory, because they got off the beach. This is a Federal victory.
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Thats because they broke out of the beachhead. If they dont and are unable to resupply the attack will fail. Its really going to come down to who's army runs out of gear/food first.
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Thats because they broke out of the beachhead. If they dont and are unable to resupply the attack will fail. Its really going to come down to who's army runs out of gear/food first.
Given the planet is in a Fed high sec system that is likely to be the Provists, isn't it?
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Thats because they broke out of the beachhead. If they dont and are unable to resupply the attack will fail. Its really going to come down to who's army runs out of gear/food first.
Given the planet is in a Fed high sec system that is likely to be the Provists, isn't it?
I have two words for you: "Tokyo Express."
Let's also not forget that it took months for the allies to break out of the beachhead area post D-Day. (The Germans really had them boxed in thanks to local terrain. Hedgerow country.) So with respect to Vik, this isn't a Federal win. Not yet. They have a foothold on a planet 5x the size of Earth, which isn't really saying much other than "omg we got some troops onto the big massive target."
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This is a bit of a different situation, however.
I don't know that much about D-Day or the months immediately following, but there were actual physical bottlenecks contributing to the problem. That's less of a problem here because the Federation controls the airspace above the entire planet right now.
The only way any Caldari forces (Provist or otherwise) are going to get supplies is from local sources or nicking it from the Ishukone relief efforts. The Federation have a solid and steady supply line to draw from.
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I should clarify the "Tokyo Express" reference, then. The Tokyo Express is what Allied troops called the Japanese night convoys during the Battle of Guadalcanal. While the Allies, technically, controlled the air and seas by day, at night the Japanese ruled the seas. So to resupply their troops they'd bring in high-speed destroyer convoys to drop off supplies. Come daylight they'd be well away from the island and out of range of a counterattack.
If the Caldari FW'ers start running high-speed frigate groups into Luminaire - I know, this is a pipe dream because they're more interested in pew pew - they could drop supplies from low orbit or in atmosphere. It's a big planet. There's no way the Federation can concievably seal it all off with nothing short of hundreds of ships. And what's the Federation going to do; seal off the stargates to stop them? Good luck with that.
The Federation, in turn, is at a disadvantage. While you're correct that the Federation has a supply line to draw from, they'd be drawing on supplies destined for other theaters of operation. Such as Black Rise.
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The Federation, in turn, is at a disadvantage. While you're correct that the Federation has a supply line to draw from, they'd be drawing on supplies destined for other theaters of operation. Such as Black Rise.
Works both ways.
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The Federation, in turn, is at a disadvantage. While you're correct that the Federation has a supply line to draw from, they'd be drawing on supplies destined for other theaters of operation. Such as Black Rise.
Good point. Since the Federation failed to nationalize war materiel manufacturers (http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/the-human-painting/), they can't ramp up production and distribution on a whim.
(Though I do wonder if they're going to take another crack at that, in the interests of rebuilding former war zones.)
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Worth noting that CCP spontaneously decided to extended the DUST event on the 26th, with the outcome influencing final control (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=647234#post647234) of Caldari Prime. Given how suddenly the announcement came out (unless I am failing at something, the forum announcement only appeared after the event was already underway), it ended up smelling funny to a lot of people. Perhaps fortunately, the outcome appears to have been in Caldari favor again, preempting a significant shitstorm over "CCP fishing for a Gallente victory."
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Worth noting that CCP spontaneously decided to extended the DUST event on the 26th, with the outcome influencing final control (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=647234#post647234) of Caldari Prime. Given how suddenly the announcement came out (unless I am failing at something, the forum announcement only appeared after the event was already underway), it ended up smelling funny to a lot of people. Perhaps fortunately, the outcome appears to have been in Caldari favor again, preempting a significant shitstorm over "CCP fishing for a Gallente victory."
yeah saw that and considered it a cheap tactic to see if the final outcome could be changed.
Since no one can choose sides, it wasn't obvious what could happen.
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Worth noting that CCP spontaneously decided to extended the DUST event on the 26th, with the outcome influencing final control (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=647234#post647234) of Caldari Prime. Given how suddenly the announcement came out (unless I am failing at something, the forum announcement only appeared after the event was already underway), it ended up smelling funny to a lot of people. Perhaps fortunately, the outcome appears to have been in Caldari favor again, preempting a significant shitstorm over "CCP fishing for a Gallente victory."
Yeah, I noticed. Incidentally, I'm batting about a .900 average on predicting CCP dick moves for the last couple weeks. Here's another prediction: CCP are probably going to wait until the current dissatisfaction settles down, then run these events until the Gallente win one of them, at which point it they'll say that CP has been liberated. I'm planning an epic tantrum when that happens. :lol: :bear:
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Worth noting that CCP spontaneously decided to extended the DUST event on the 26th, with the outcome influencing final control (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=647234#post647234) of Caldari Prime. Given how suddenly the announcement came out (unless I am failing at something, the forum announcement only appeared after the event was already underway), it ended up smelling funny to a lot of people. Perhaps fortunately, the outcome appears to have been in Caldari favor again, preempting a significant shitstorm over "CCP fishing for a Gallente victory."
Yeah, I noticed. Incidentally, I'm batting about a .900 average on predicting CCP dick moves for the last couple weeks. Here's another prediction: CCP are probably going to wait until the current dissatisfaction settles down, then run these events until the Gallente win one of them, at which point it they'll say that CP has been liberated. I'm planning an epic tantrum when that happens. :lol: :bear:
This isn't the first time that CCP has gone fishing for a win. There was an event during the Sansha arc where the Nation was supposed to hack into CONCORD files through satellites they had in the Monalaz constellation. Only, the anti-Nation team won and killed the Nation actors. Oops. :lol: But then CCP waited for about 3 hours and ran the event again in order to secure their "win."
Overall, I think it's very hypocritical for CCP to claim the ability for people to influence an ongoing arc, only to find out that they're manipulating the events to secure a specific outcome.
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In the case of the Incursion events, that was an issue of Marketing dictating to Storyline deadlines and shit for the Incursion expansion, and Storyline dictating to Live Events to make sure they stayed on track to meet those deadlines.
Right now, Marketing isn't as involved and it's just Storyline dictating to Live Events the general directions they want to go with the story - likely without much in the way of specific end goals, and leaving Live Events to determine how to accomplish that ingame.
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Considering how much publicity surrounded this, I think saying Marketing wasn't involved is a bit of a stretch.
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Marketing is not involved to the hand-up-Storyline's-ass-playing-puppeteer extent it was with Incursion. Hence, "isn't as involved".
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Marketing is not involved to the hand-up-Storyline's-ass-playing-puppeteer extent it was with Incursion. Hence, "isn't as involved".
I'm not sure what leads you to believe that. I am willing to grant it is possible, but barring some sort of secret knowledge on your part, I think that's not in clear evidence.
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I am pretty sure a lot of this story arc has to deal with DUST marketing vs Eve marketing.
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To be clear on what Morwen is saying - the events in the Incursion leadup were pretty much pre-scripted once Sansha was decided on as the Incursion faction; so, CONCORD HAD to be overcome by Sansha; Sansha HAD to make off with large portions of planetary populations; Sansha HAD to extract core samples from the Apocrypha-event planets, etc etc. The events team at the time did a fairly good job of rolling with various things players threw back at them - see: Graviton wormhole "jamming" and the whole crashing-a-freighter-into-a-wormhole thing - but ultimately the entire Incursion leadup events demanded that Sansha be placed in a position to strike anywhere in the cluster and overcome most faction navy defenses, in order that the incursions be able to be marketed as a threat to capsuleers. I don't think CCP was ever shy about saying this, even as they strove to include player ideas in the arc.
The Uprising events, by contrast, have been marketed as "Come see stuff blow up! Or have a part in the storyline! By making stuff blow up!" The marketing aspect of this is pretty open-ended, although things started sliding downhill in that respect (which has been discussed to death here and I won't go into further). Point is, it was not marketed from the start explicitly as "X event WILL happen by the end of the story chain."