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[Kala]

Sexism goes both ways, but honestly the creators here don't seem to care.

Actually, I think in one of the videos (I would link you if I remembered which  ) she does point out that a lot of the tropes encapsulating male characters are also sexist stereotypes, but the difference is those tend to be based on adolescent power fantasies, whereas the tropes surrounding the female ones are more revolving around powerlessness - whether being directly being damsel'd, an adjunct to the male in one way or just for sexual objectification/decoration.

Though I'd totes agree that both extremes of those gender stereotypes are harmful.

There are plenty of rebuttal videos, but to be honest, largely that just seems to be more hate and "who does this woman think she is, talking shit about my games?!?!" etc etc. (or listing games featuring female characters as examples of positive representation and including things like Dead or Alive  )

I don't agree with everything she says, mind, far from it.  But some of it has been interesting - esp the link with retro games and nostalgia transferring old fashioned attitudes into subsequent titles.  Hadn't considered that before. (though really I do think she simplifies/underestimates the role of irony at times).

[Kala]

I think we agree that we agree then, Kala.

Oh good 

Apologies if I got a bit ranty with my caps lock 

[Lyn Farel]

Actually, I think in one of the videos (I would link you if I remembered which  ) she does point out that a lot of the tropes encapsulating male characters are also sexist stereotypes, but the difference is those tend to be based on adolescent power fantasies, whereas the tropes surrounding the female ones are more revolving around powerlessness - whether being directly being damsel'd, an adjunct to the male in one way or just for sexual objectification/decoration.

Maybe the one about women in the fridge.

[Nmaro Makari]

So, speaking of GTA V

"Gamers Attack Feminist Gamespot GTA review"

http://www.mweb.co.za/games/ViewNewsArticle/tabid/2549/Article/9150/Gamers-attack-feminist-Gamespot-GTA-V-review.aspx

[Morwen Lagann]

Scanned through the article referenced by that one yesterday. I was rather put off by the "live feed" of comments coming in on the bottom-right side at a constant rate.

[Seriphyn]

It's fucking GTA, I might as well spree kill male NPCs exclusively and call it misandry.

More seriously, I just started playing it, as well as 99% of gamers. Nobody will know what Carolyn Petit is talking about until a good while. I don't think it's fair to incite emotions when nobody has a fair judgement of the game's content at this point.

[Lyn Farel]

I'm starting to like Gamespot. That's pretty good since IGN are all corrupted anyway.

[Seriphyn]

In my last job, I saw 5-11 year olds on their smartphones playing Minecraft. Both genders, even the pretty queen bee cusp-of-adolescence 11-year-olds, and no one batted an eyelid. In 10-15 years, these kids will be adults and will be the ones to shape the market. Hell, credit to CoD: Ghosts from the most testosterone- and 'murica-fueled franchise on the planet in reflecting the recent US military decision by including female soldiers in the line-up, something Battlefield and ARMA are behind on. I want to be able to enjoy my games in peace without some Internet armchair activists politicizing my purchase for YouTube channel hits. I grew up with video games being a boy's club, and a bottomfeeder boy's club at that. When I see cute little girls playing video games, something so farfetched in light of my upbringing, I know everything will work itself out over time. I do not think the Internet armchair activists are exposed to this, which is fair enough because their day job is presumably not working with kids.

As my late grandmother said, there are far more greater areas in the quest for gender equality than video games. This'll iron itself out, it's a first world problem. Female genital mutilation, sex trafficking, and slavery? That won't.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Okay, trans-bashing aside (which is apparently what's going on with the attacks on the original reviewer), which is horrible and I do not support that one bit... I don't understand why it's misogynist. At least, not any more so than every other GTA game in history.

Instead of only playing as one gross man who commits crimes and swears a lot, you get to play as three different ones. My press kit says this is a narrative innovation. You can’t be a woman. I could be lazy and say this is because women do not commit crimes or swear and nor should they want to, but instead I’m going to come right out and say it’s misogynistic. What, you want to leave me death threats? Go for it!

I don't understand it. I actually honestly do not understand it. If the main character of GTAV was female, wouldn't the game still be derided as horribly misogynist? Do females have to be portrayed in ugly antagonist main character roles for a game to not be misogynist?

Sometimes it seems like you honestly can't do anything right when faced with the feminist agenda.

[Makkal]

More than one element of a work can be sexist.

For example, for Fat Princess, I can complain that none of the heroes are men and that the game treats the princess as an object.

[Katrina Oniseki]

More than one element of a work can be sexist.

For example, for Fat Princess, I can complain that none of the heroes are men and that the game treats the princess as an object.

I suppose this is a thin arguement, but I don't think GTA should ever be held up to a moral measurement device except to see how low it's gotten with the latest sequel. There is never anything good about GTA. Nothing good about it except gameplay and graphics value.

From driving habits, to racism, to crime, to the dialogue used in the game.... nothing in that game should be learned and used in real life. Ever.

I just find it to be uselessly beating a dead horse to say GTA is sexist. Yes. It's obvious. We know.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

the pretty queen bee cusp-of-adolescence 11-year-olds

What is it about that phrasing that seems a little off to me?

[Repentence Tyrathlion]

So, speaking of GTA V

"Gamers Attack Feminist Gamespot GTA review"

http://www.mweb.co.za/games/ViewNewsArticle/tabid/2549/Article/9150/Gamers-attack-feminist-Gamespot-GTA-V-review.aspx

To quote TotalBiscuit in his comments on this... "To those, the cancer of the so-called gaming community, I do firmly say  'fuck off'."

[Shiori]

I don't understand it. I actually honestly do not understand it. If the main character of GTAV was female, wouldn't the game still be derided as horribly misogynist? Do females have to be portrayed in ugly antagonist main character roles for a game to not be misogynist?

Sometimes it seems like you honestly can't do anything right when faced with the feminist agenda.

I can't really fault anyone for thinking this, with all the fur flying, but it's a bit of a shame. At its core, "the feminist agenda" boils down to wanting to see 1) women included, 2) as actual people, on a somewhat equal footing with the rest of the characters in the piece, instead of in-jokes, caricatures, or sex objects. That doesn't seem unreasonable on the face of it.

I just find it to be uselessly beating a dead horse to say GTA is sexist. Yes. It's obvious. We know.

It's been pointed out several times before, yes, but the notion of letting women into the treehouse in a real way reducing dudebros to inchoate, sputtering rage for want of a sensible counterargument is kind of a new thing. Previously it would've just gone largely ignored. I'd almost call it progress!

[Nmaro Makari]

It's fucking GTA, I might as well spree kill male NPCs exclusively and call it misandry.

Not the issue. Anyone can be killed in GTA regardless of simulated gender. The issue is how women are portrayed and simulated outside of being murdered. And even that is missing the point of WHY I posted it here.

Put aside the actual game for a minute, and actually examine how some people reacted when someone, a woman no less, dared to criticise "their" game for slightly erring on the critical side on the topic of fair representation of gender. I mean, she scored it as low as 9 out of 10! In all my years...

And lo, the mists clear and you see the actual issue of importance.