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[The Rook]

I so hear you.

[Kumakatok]

This is a very interesting thread for a new player like me to read, thank you.

I'm hoping to learn to be a PvPer (since my primary motivation is to enjoy the game) and the choices I have to make to do this and develop a character I can RP with (which is a big part of a MMORPG for me) are difficult. My first attempt felt rather shot down on the IGS when my choice of learning corp (Pandemic Horde) was rather ridiculed when I tried to open my character's story there. (I've since learned that the IGS is perhaps not the best place for such beginnings, but it is the first place new players to the game look if they are interested in RP).

Since RL is not very predictable for the next couple of months, I have determined to a bit of faction war as it sits the character and, though I will get blown up a lot, should give some PvP learning too. The points raised in this thread about the characterisation of FW as the Pendulum War (and in a current IGS thread, even worse as the Toy War) underline my experience - that as a new player, it all feels really difficult to establish even a foothold with the more experienced people. Instead of being an interesting hook for someone like me to develop an in game backstory, it's made out by veterans as pointless, stupid and participants made to look a bit foolish.

I know the FW mechanics are supposed to be flawed, and of course long time players will feel annoyed, if not burnt out by the apparent futility, but all this makes getting into RP without being totally clued up on the lore and past interactions extremely daunting.

I'm sure you all have have seen this perspective before, and I don't want to seem whiny. I'll find a way, I'm sure, especially since people here have been so helpful. 

[Karmilla Strife]

IGS can be a pretty rough place for a new character. I would recommend the in-game channels (such as the one mentioned in the OP). There are channels that are fairly faction neutral such as The Summit and the IGS in-game channel (not sure of the exact spelling used). There are also IC and OOC channels that are geared more toward the various factions. Those could be great places for a new RPer to bounce their ideas around and get to know other RPers as well.

[Utari Onzo]

Bitter vets be bitter vetting is about what sums up a lot of the noise over facwar. I can freely admit to having engaged in some frustrated posting to the same affect after my own experience, but I've mostly just been trying to keep my head down while I consider my future options.

It's a bit of a cycle you see, as people burn out a vacuum is needed to be filled, but the hangers on tend to do most of their interfactional RP interaction on the IGS. It all leads to lots of shouty, wordy threads, full of good points to an older player, but pretty hostile to someone new.

My advice? Get your chops wet with the game, have fun and don't sweat about trying to make an impact or be noticed in RP. Just put your content and IC opinions out there in a natural fashion and keep plodding along till you find the rythme and style that suits you (and your character). Listen to feedback and reply to IGS posts as you like, but take it for what it is. Grumbly veterans grumbling.

[Teinyhr]

IGS is a very daunting and dare I say hostile place for genuinely new players. And yes, large PvP alliances have a bad rep among roleplayers, and typically for a reason (e.g. large scale harassment on/of RP channels). EVE is not the only game where this is true though, roleplayers are often treated with derision in almost any MMO by the "real players" (even though I've met very few people who do nothing but roleplay in MMO's, almost all PvP or PvE like everyone else). I remember RP-PvP realms in WoW being exceptionally bad about this in the past. Anyway, that is not to say there can't be some very good people in these groups - Ayallah, Arrendis come to mind first - but someone in such a group will have to work harder to prove themselves not a troll. I'm not saying it's fair, mind you.

As for the derision of Faction Warfare - again, IMO even in character it should be kind of a bad joke by now. It has gone on for years without anything resulting from it but tens of millions of lives lost, tying up resources and ruining economies of the planets in such zones, which probably weren't too robust to begin with. It honestly serves no sensible purpose other than to keep capsuleers busy, as it has often been called out for. In the more recent developments factions have again grown a bit warmer towards each other, the Sanmatar was invited to the Empress' coronation and he attended, without a huge fleet to protect him which shows more trust than just courtesy. The new Empress is expected to be also more inclined for peaceful relations, altough time will tell.
Out of character it is, to my understanding considered a PvP training ground for larger scale fleets and ops and indeed a good choice to cut ones teeth in terms of PvP if one is not ready to jump off in the deep end right away.
I know it also attracts budding roleplayers for visibility and ease of access reasons, and conflict is one of the more exciting and "easier" things to RP out, but it isn't the only way to get in to RP. When I started, FacWar was one of those things on CCP's Soon™ lists. What got me into RP was the backstory itself - four different, distinct human civilizations with no clue about their ancestry, 21,338 years in the future? Imagine the possibilities!

I don't mean to deride those who wish to RP and do FW, at all. It is as perfectly valid way to play as any. But I think it is also unreasonable to expect that those who have noticed how futile it is to not say anything about it. People have opinions, and different viewpoints. If someone thinks CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act is still serving its purpose, and another thinks its just a load of hooey, neither of them is really wrong.

And to say once again - if a game has a lot of history, it is always daunting to jump in as a new player. I had the same feeling with WoW, and if I were to jump on board with EVE now, I'm sure i'd have the same with it too. Heck, I find EVE's RP scene daunting still even though I've been here for what, 11 years now?
What can I say to new players but to tough it out, don't rush it, get into it at your own leisure and pace that feels right for you. And have fun! There's loads of room for "silly" RP if you need a break from posturing.

[Xepharious]

Loved the post Teinyhr!

I think you bring up a really good point. Yes, some of the angst against FacWar is bitter-vet in nature, but some of it is also us trying to make in-character sense of an OOC game design phenomenon.

Because we are trying so hard to find a way to IC rationalize the management decisions of CCP, who have found their efforts better spent outside of FacWar, many of us are left with little other than "pointless war" as an explanation for what is really just a damn tricky game design situation. I've spent a lot of time lately trying to find in game/in cannon reasons for programmer decisions and I just don't want people to just assume that a character's disillusionment with the FacWar is bittervetting. Also, many 'bitter vets' are trying to rationalize their characters too. Those that have stayed in Fac war, with the same character, all this time tend to play rather static characters who 'have always been here' because that's part of aligning a character's story with the stagnant FacWar realities. My character's opinions of the war are heavily clouded by my decision to try to place Origin, story wise, and a refuge from the wars (and from mainline faction ideologies). I play Xeph as more opposed to those wars because they provide a foil for what we try to do in Origin. Origin isn't exactly perfection, but as long as Xeph keeps using the 'horrors' of the FacWars as one of the other alternatives.... Xeph gets to be a hero of his story and not a villain. (Though, I have no trouble with some seeing Xeph as a villain either.)

[Utsukushi Shi]

In my experience there are the concepts that are lore based and pretty much universally accepted and the ones that regardless of popularity are still just player consensus. The "Pendulum War" perspective is the latter. The faction wars exist. What is the reasoning behind them, how are they viewed in universe, is up to you to decide. Obviously it's a good idea to be aware what that consensus opinion is so you are ready to rp with it but don't let it dissuade you from concocting your own take. I flew in two war zones for years and have my own perspective on the conflict. Feel free to hit me up in game.

Most of all the best advice I can give is do something you find fun and figure out the rationale later. It is rarely all that difficult to cook up a story to explain whatever ooc choices you need to make.

[Kumakatok]

This is all wonderful advice. Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and experience.

[Rinai Vero]

The IGS pvp is real.  I definitely enjoy it for the most part, and have participated off and on for years.  It can be really fun when there's a big CCP event in game, or when players come up with their own content that sparks a genuine debate.  My favorite period on the IGS, speaking of Caldari RP, was the prelude to the Battle of Caldari Prime and Heth's downfall.

I remember the whole "audit" of Wyrkomi Honor Guard / the formation of PY-RE was a really fun topic where the Caldari players got to RP "nothing to see here, normal corporate stuff" and other players were like "Uh, wut? Looks pretty fascist to us!"  I-RED's various efforts in Syndicate were also good opportunities for them to RP "see! good Caldari good economic development!" and other people to be appropriately skeptical about what was happening to "undesirable elements" or whatever.

That and the typical squabbling about how terrible the other guy's faction is in the news of the day is mostly good fun.

What's annoying is when people do a thing and the response is basically "you're shit, and your playstyle is shit" which is what a lot of the FW hostility amounts to.

[John Revenent]

Some work has been completed in regards to the Heiian Institute. We're wrapping up the charter for the project and have begun setting up the guidelines for the Heiian Committee. The Committee will encompass the major political blocs, acting as the main body overseeing/endorsing projects and push for the completion of the society goals, while promoting Caldari ideals and culture.

All-in-all it will act along the same lines as the Society of past, with a few iterations to bring some more cooperative (or uncooperative) factionalism.

Another interesting project in the works for the Heiian Institute is the Heiian Event Consortium [HEC]. Which would conduct small scale combative events, while creating a updated roster of pilots and ranking system.

I'm sure much of the details will be released in the coming days.

[Veiki]

I'm gonna necro this thread to point out that actual RP doesn't seem to have actually happened out of this initiative. I'm still RPing in the same, small, circles that I have been for years - barring the new Drifter stuff.

How do we defeat the problem of Caldari RP tending to happen within certain corporate or political silos?

I'm sure given the military ethos of the State there would be some adherence to the old Navy Wardroom rules of: No sex, No politics, No religion can apply as regards discussion and interaction.

I remember some RP with you a few months back during Lunarisse Aspenstar's wedding and it's how I imagined how Caldari are among themselves: Lots of joking banter, subtle and not so subtle taking the piss out of themselves, the situation, and the damn foreigners etc.

Just looking at Caldari as normal human beings I'm not sure why all discussion has to be driven by SUPER IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT SPACE POLITICS IN SPACE. Sure there's a time and place for it, but sometimes you've just got to hang back and be able to talk about non-serious topics if and when they arise. Unless you want to be that guy who just talks about politics all day when everyone just wants to drink beers and watch the competitive Splinterz matches.

That and while for me, sure, there's probably significant and different ways the Caldari Megas each try to define themselves as the One True Caldari as regards how they sell media and historical narratives to their citizens, the net result of that to me is just creating a situation akin to astrology among State citizens:

Oh, you're from Kaalakiota you must be a really stubborn, imperious, and pragmatic kind of person.
Oh, you're from Wiyrkomi you must be a staunch traditionalist with strong family values.
Oh, you're from SuVee you must be a really ruthless and capricious kind of person.

And those stereotypes will likely vary from the different viewpoints of which Mega your character came from.

As for it being a case of: Oh no you're not from MY Megacorp I can literally never talk to you now? I don't think so.

[Jev North]

How do we defeat the problem of Caldari RP tending to happen within certain corporate or political silos?

I'm sure given the military ethos of the State there would be some adherence to the old Navy Wardroom rules of: No sex, No politics, No religion can apply as regards discussion and interaction.

I remember some RP with you a few months back during Lunarisse Aspenstar's wedding and it's how I imagined how Caldari are among themselves: Lots of joking banter, subtle and not so subtle taking the piss out of themselves, the situation, and the damn foreigners etc.

It will have to be something like that, I feel. With old loyalist corporations fading, faction warfare moribund, and in-game events and fiction not offering much in the way of hooks beyond news articles to smart-arse about on the IGS, there's not a lot of meat on the bones of loyalism these days.

There's plenty of Caldari characters around, though. Wherever they grew up or whichever mega they're still carrying a torch for, there'll be some common ground, or shared experiences and ideals, or at least the vague idea that they should have some things in common with other Caldari.

I'm not particularly fond of BarP, but the lowest common denominator is still a common denominator, so I say try to give a single, physical venue our blessing as the hotspot for Caldari RP. The Gariushi Lounge, wherever, as long as it's a location; I think  Heiian College and Institute's aims are admirable, but as discussion channels for an abstract topic, are doomed to be relatively infertile.

[Veiki]

There's plenty of Caldari characters around, though. Wherever they grew up or whichever mega they're still carrying a torch for, there'll be some common ground, or shared experiences and ideals, or at least the vague idea that they should have some things in common with other Caldari.

I don't disagree, but I'll probably just cede the floor to the majority of Caldari interpretations with the deeply ingrained Japanophile/Anime translations of the State. Only a matter of time before all the Zaibatsu starts getting thrown around like vertically integrated companies were somehow invented in Japan and not with the big Steel/Oil monopolies in the late 19th century US before they got broken up by anti-trust laws or the fact that the biggest vertically integrated companies today -- Apple and Google -- have sweet fuck all to do with Japan.

Either that or some transliteration of Heiian with Bushido mastery of the blade while ignoring that the Samurai were quite fond of oppressing the shit out of rice farming peasants so they could afford all their fancy gear while finding any excuse to go ahead and put their training to use by killing each other at every opportunity.