I am also not telling anyone they are 'doing it wrong'. I have to say I'm hard pressed to find anyone on this thread telling anyone that.
So, actually, unless it is a very generalized sentiment it is actually a bit much to look like you're asking people who aren't doing something to stop doing that thing. Sensitivity goes both ways.
Now, the thing is, I'm very sympathetic to pro-Sansha RPers.
After all, my Sansha-related RP of yesteryear wasn't even full-on pro-Sansha's Nation, rather it was a sympathetic take on what my character perceived as some of the original noble intentions of Sansha Kuvakei and an appreciation of the transhumanist element of his thinking. And even that got me some rum old 'feedback' and remarks about how any sympathy for Sansha at all, in any way, meant I was for enslaving everyone into mindless zombie automata. Over 5 years ago.
So, I get the sensitivity here. (Though I think much of it needs to be simply shrugged off and not taken too personally.)
Kaleigh says that you shouldn't have to buy a book to get a general idea of a faction.
Damn right.
In my opinion you only need one thing to get the general idea of Sansha's Nation faction: the Sansha's Nation chronicle.
Let's take a moment to note that it is, actually, one of the more impressive background-setting chronicles. Everything you need to know to understand the basics is there.
I understood from my first reading of that chronicle that Sansha's Nation was not before the fall and likely was not after the fall entirely made up the 'stereotype' mindless automata True Slaves.
So on the general idea of the faction, I'm on the same page with the Sansha's Nation RP community. Come to that, so is GoGo and pretty much everyone else on this thread.
But let's be honest about this OOC discussion and speculation on the lore and what the gaps in it may be filled with (which is all it is), it's more than a 'general idea' of the faction that is being put forward in various interpretations by people. It's getting fairly specific about the structure of an entire faction.
See, that's why Lillith's examples up above about why people don't react the same or differ to or discuss with passion to the same extent issues like Intaki separatists (a really bad example btw because there is PF about them) or minor Gallente religions or whatever are not well drawn in relation to a discussion of the social structure of an entire faction.
The real comparison is with discussions of Caldari society or Khanid society or Thukker society or you get the idea... and I can point you to some very passionate, rather robust and sometimes acrimonious discussions on that sort of thing. This is not unique to the Sansha's Nation faction. That's a myth.
But Kaleigh's right again. A discussion of the social structure of an entire faction is fine and dandy, if you like that sort of thing, but it's not necessarily relevant or important to how people RP. Moreover, RPing as if your ideas on the social structure are correct is fine and dandy. You can be called on it IC and that's fine. It's utterly pointless for people to call you on it OOC unless what you are doing is swivel-eyed PF violation. Which it isn't.
As for the subject of humanizing the members of Sansha's Nation. Heh. I got no problem with it. I've taken the same broad view for a long time. I was there when Sansha's Nation actors were talking to one another in public in binary (why?) and groaning inside. But it's all good sport and can be shrugged off.
Further, if you want humanized Nation (KD is going to fume at this...) the novel delivers it in a crashing broadside.
I'll quote one short passage in the spoiler tags below and comment on it, it gives the flavour, it's short enough to be fair use but there is a lot more and I can't be quoting it wholesale (in my opinion, simply giving an interpretation or summation is not good enough) for obvious reasons. I have tried to be honest in the selection to give a balanced representation. In the end, though, it is not a substitute for the full passage.
[spoiler]
[a Nation insider speaking of 'True Slaves']
"It's a spectrum is, what I mean. There are so many different types, with the military one being the last and only thing you outsiders ever see, but it's just one of many.
[...]
"The True Slaves stalk the world like giants, but there are those who are only half-slaves, with a much greater degree of autonomy, or who've only had a particular section of their mind taken over.
[...]
"It's not the most common setup, but sure, some of them can explore their creative talents as much as they like while their analytical mind belongs to Nation, so they can paint and draw but they can't solve even the simplest maths problem unless their implants allow it. Others have had certain emotions suppressed."
That gives the idea. There is more. The speaker is a little ambiguous on some points elsewhere and while using the terminology 'True Slaves' for ease appears not to think that it has much meaning in reality. It should be noted that the speaker is an entirely autonomous ex-Nation member who was autonomous when in Nation but appears to consider himself to have been a 'True Slave' from the way he speaks. Some, he also says, are barely implanted at all, some don't even have a tracking device.
The clear indication of this evidence is that it's a spectrum, a continuum, running from loyal to the ideology of Nation with zero implants to well... some pretty bizarre stuff, as seen elsewhere in the novel. If an entirely autonomous but loyal individual, with no implants, considers himself to be part of Nation, and in that sense what the outside world would think of as a 'True Slave', then to me it suggests the distinction between a 'True Slave' and a 'citizen' is... of limited utility at best.
[/spoiler]
As to the weight of this PF. As indicated earlier, the novel is more or less written in subjective, limited third-person narrative (to be technical about it). But that doesn't mean it can be set aside. It's still PF and it's still evidence of the nature of Nation society. What is certainly true is that people should accord it the weight it deserves given the format.
I would have to say that to my mind, while on the specifics and details it suggests a society that may not be exactly in accord with the present vision of the Sansha RP community, it does, in fact, answer the general desire of that RP community to have a more nuanced and human viewpoint on Sansha's Nation.
Cosmo
PS. On precise topic with the subject title: my first silent reaction to myself on the Aria Jenneth proposal was indeed 'Isn't this a way to demonstrate your IC position on Sansha's Nation without a countervailing way for the Sansha's RPers to demonstrate their IC position on Nation?' So, you know, I'm not blind to the frustrations. I think perhaps a constructive dialogue is always possible on these issues though.
Author
Topic: Nation's Unity (split from "New Sansha capture mechanic" thread) (Read 13501 times)