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[Havohej]

Stuff.

This may be unpopular of me to say, but: I don't care about another person's enjoyment of the game OOCly.  It's their money paying for their subscription, finding something fun to do with it is their problem - not mine.

If they don't have enough assets for it to be fun doing PvP and potentially losing some of the little they have, generally just a problem for new players who don't even have access to steady L4 mission income (or said income is interrupted by my wardec)... well, tough.  Cold hard world, grimdark and all that.  If a player doesn't have the space pixel wherewithal to endure a violent conflict in space, said player should moderate their character's behaviour to not invite such.

Pissing off entities that are reputed for violent outbursts is counterproductive to a risk-averse playstyle.  I can make enough in L4 that even if a player is in an NPC corp, if they undock at all they put themselves at risk of a suicide gank.  Havo is enough of a dick to suicide a Tornado on your mining barge, for instance, over something said on the IGS.

But here's the real point in asking if Johanesse is/was an entity that exists in space, outside of stations:

Just as it's an other player's problem to find fun things to do with their paid subscription to Eve, finding something fun to do with MY subscription is also MY problem.  You know what I don't find fun?  Bullshitting with things that don't put themselves at risk of being shot on the IGS or in chat channels.  If I find myself doing so, I will cease immediately.  I can't tell you how many people I've simply blocked because they were being an asshole on The Summit and I know full well they don't exist in space. In my game, and Havohej's New Eden, these characters simply don't exist because it is not fun for me to interact with them in any way.  I am not obligated to do so, and so I do not do so.

I'll give you an example:  Andreus Ixiris.  It's no secret I dislike him.  I always disliked him for his OOC behaviour.  Havo always disliked his character for his being Gallente (it doesn't take much with Havo).  Havo's IC dislike occured before my OOC dislike - months before.

However, it is more fun interacting with his character than any IGS/RP Channel alt that doesn't exist in space.  Once, we had a war with Andy's corp.  This war only amounted to one battle.  We had to fly halfway across highsec space to get that battle because he was too lazy to meet us halfway.  He used TWO neutral logistics cruisers to support his two Domis vs. our BC gang.  It was an unwinnable engagement from the outset.  And of course, he twists the knife about this every chance he gets, IC and OOC.

However, pvp happened, fun was had, and from now until the servers shut down, Havohej must bear the disgust of having been defeated by someone he despises so much.  He must also bear the shame of having to admit to it should it ever come up IC, and it has a couple of times.  (OOC, I don't care that he won any more than I care that Ayallah killed my Firetail with her Wolf... it's pixels).

I'd rather have Havo get all wound up and get his teeth kicked in in space than bandy words about with some alt that isn't really a thing in the game.
"Without the threat of death there's no reason to live at all." - Marilyn Manson

[Samira Kernher]

+1 ^

[Karynn]

This may be unpopular of me to say, but: I don't care about another person's enjoyment of the game OOCly.  It's their money paying for their subscription, finding something fun to do with it is their problem - not mine.

Very much this, props for saying it straight!

[Mizhara]

The only consideration I have for other people's enjoyment of the game is whether or not their presence is enjoyable for me. If I get less fun by pushing someone to stop undocking etc, I might decide not to do it, because it'd make the game less fun for me. If that's not the case, why should I put their enjoyment ahead of mine?

[Arista Shahni]

GRRR GOONS

Ohwaaa.. 

/walks off, whistling

[Mizhara]

Minor difference between prioritizing your own fun over that of others, and intentionally going out to ruin other people's fun.

[Louella Dougans]

roleplaying at others vs roleplaying with others. We've had that discussion before as well, on this forum or another.

[Arista Shahni]

My KB is a direct reflection of me ruining people's fun. /nods

[Merdaneth]

Wouldn't matter to me. Undocking in itself doesn't make you vulnerable in space.

No, but not undocking guarantees no vulnerability unless you have assets someone can destroy.

It depends what that person values. People that never undock likely don't value destroyable assets anyway, so if even you destroy something, the only value would be in the pleasure you would derive from it. People tend to value credibility, recognition, attention and respect a lot more than a couple of million isk of digital spaceship.

In EVE my experience is that blowing people's stuff up in space tends to often gain me respect and recognition, and very rarely anger or other negative emotions. However, shooting down someone's argument on a forum or channel, *especially* an IC forum or channel, has a much higher odds to piss off other people in my experience.

So for me I would say the reverse is true. Refusing to post or speak up and only undocking makes one less vulnerable.

[Merdaneth]

This may be unpopular of me to say, but: I don't care about another person's enjoyment of the game OOCly.  It's their money paying for their subscription, finding something fun to do with it is their problem - not mine.

I'm the opposite. I do care about another person's enjoyment OOCly. My philosophy tends to be if people enjoy playing with me, then the game gets better for them and for me. That's something I want to support. I care more about my own enjoyment of course, but other people's enjoyment is a factor.

When I'm ridiculing your character in some odd satire, I'm of course aiming for making you the player smile but having your character fume. I can of course aim at making you the player fume as well, but then you'll just stop interacting with me, which is not something I would desire. I'm making posts to be read, not to be ignored.

[Lyn Farel]

Stuff.

Some more stuff.

Heh, i'm not accusing you of not caring about someone else enjoyment. I'm not even defending anyone in that.

I'm just pointing to the omnipresent contradiction between what the game implies and RP.

Also, I disagree on "it's just pixels". Actually it's time you spent farming for pixels, which gives it its value, but especially because the way it was acquired was fucking tedious. I'm pretty sure you also have to deal with that too on an everyday basis to fuel your "space shenanigans". Unless you have found the miraculous fun thing to do to make isk.

The only consideration I have for other people's enjoyment of the game is whether or not their presence is enjoyable for me. If I get less fun by pushing someone to stop undocking etc, I might decide not to do it, because it'd make the game less fun for me. If that's not the case, why should I put their enjoyment ahead of mine?

Very typical gallente answer of our individualist and selfish society. Wouldn't blame you though.

[Havohej]

When I'm ridiculing your character in some odd satire

Oh shit, I remember those!  LOL   

As for the rest, I can see your points.

[Jace]

Wouldn't matter to me. Undocking in itself doesn't make you vulnerable in space.

No, but not undocking guarantees no vulnerability unless you have assets someone can destroy.

It depends what that person values. People that never undock likely don't value destroyable assets anyway, so if even you destroy something, the only value would be in the pleasure you would derive from it. People tend to value credibility, recognition, attention and respect a lot more than a couple of million isk of digital spaceship.

In EVE my experience is that blowing people's stuff up in space tends to often gain me respect and recognition, and very rarely anger or other negative emotions. However, shooting down someone's argument on a forum or channel, *especially* an IC forum or channel, has a much higher odds to piss off other people in my experience.

So for me I would say the reverse is true. Refusing to post or speak up and only undocking makes one less vulnerable.

Well said, I'd have to agree with this.

[Jace]

So according to OP, the metagame is not a game. Hm.

Metagame is by definition not a game. If it were, it would not need the 'meta' in front of it.

But beyond that, 'metagame' in this context has essentially lost all meaning in MMOs. The term has been so misused and abused that it no longer means anything.

[Arista Shahni]

Metagame if I am remembering right .. and example is: using the knowledge of the map to increase performance.  ie. using a secret hiding spot (that you learned yourself on another playthrough) is metagaming.

aka everyone does it in eve.