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[Vincent Pryce]

I lol'd. Now go home bad spy alt, you're drunk. 

[Makkal]

I feel a bit divided on this.

I dislike corp theft. I also dislike pirating, scamming, or non-consensual PVP. My preferred version of EVE wouldn’t look that different from WoW or TOR, and I recognize that’s a bad thing. These are all legitimate EVE activities; my reaction to this shouldn’t be any more negative than hearing about how X declared war on Y or how A stole a space whale from B.

Given that, I find some of the responses a bit disheartening.

No, it’s not an impressive theft. Yes, it seems like almost no thought or planning was put into it. But I can tell you that the first time I hopped into a Punisher to defend Makkal’s e-honor, my outing was rather laughable. And I certainly didn’t make 2 billion off it.

Then again, Makkal didn’t run to the IGS to start a thread about it either.

I’ll say that I’m glad Ichkowa San/Bai'xao Meiyi’s player has found a type of gameplay that satisfies him (?) and I hope he has a long and prosperous career. He obviously has a great deal to learn about planning and preparation, and he needs to understand that the characters on the IGS tend to be older and more experienced. For a number of them, 2 billion is nothing.

Lastly, I’m not seeing much RP here. Coming here under an obvious alt and stating OOCly that this is a group job suggests you view the RP community as stupid.

I like how AP is handling this both in and out of character. I find myself more impressed with them than I am with the thief.

[AmranShakiel]

Update : There is high potential to go pear shaped but thus far everything has been in order. We'll be watching if persons want to continue this discussion.

As a personal aside I'm more of the mind the exchange should happen on the IGS to stir more role play, but oh well.

That's more the reason it was posted on the IGS, also that to us, 2 billion is allot of money and it sounded worth while to post there. (do keep in mind, my partner, corp members and I are lowly carebears, 2b takes a few days to make.) the three of us are very inexperienced in eve and the ability to sabotage and deceive a corporation is very interesting to me (Me being Bai'xao.) There was RP in the motive by the time all of AXLVP's members had logged off, Ichkowa (the character I used) is a man easily swayed to burn a bridge. The ISK was needed to establish the capsuleer section of Field of Scarecrows within a C3, Who chose to target a competitor with some slights against there name that had the potential to be exploited, namely the tcmc rumors and the like. The people involved were easily swayed as they're members of the Cartel; AXLVP was also previously a member of the cartel and was destroying archangel vessels at one point for the curious loot they dropped. (Though I can't remember where, I remember that the characters involved were Shiro and Saede)

The theft involved an IRL friend and my fiance and its fueling some in group RP. The spark that initiated the action was simply opportunism, and having not spent more then 5 minutes in planning, I wanted to take as much as I could prior to downtime cutting my theft short, that's really the reason so little was taken- shit planning and nervousness.
Never the less, it was very fun moving (to me) so much ISK through low sec to hide in a station, thankfully the route was clear until shortly before downtime, when a hurricane and tornado was lost.

This was a good lesson for the next theft:

1. Plan ahead properly.
2. Steal ALLOT, 2b just isn't as flashy as it sounds to me.
3. Be prepared for things to go pear shaped. (I should really have waited things out a few more days to get a time period that wasn't right before down time, and I should have properly scouted the route.)

Thanks Makkal for the well wishing despite your dislike of the actions involved.

[Karmilla Strife]

I have to say I'm not a fan. It's rare that something makes me think ICly of a transhumanist RP group in a better light, this is one such event. Much love to Saede and friends, may all your corp thieves be this incompetent.

[Ché Biko]

We are disappointed in the player in question for taking these actions, and the betrayal of trust it represented. I personally had considered this player a friend, and it is not without sorrow that I now rescind that.

Why this? Just because the player did not alert ALXVP OOC about a heist or is there something more going on? Is there a code in the EVE RP community that you have to mention it OOC that your char is, or is going to become, a spy/thief?

[Katrina Oniseki]

We are disappointed in the player in question for taking these actions, and the betrayal of trust it represented. I personally had considered this player a friend, and it is not without sorrow that I now rescind that.

Why this? Just because the player did not alert ALXVP OOC about a heist or is there something more going on? Is there a code in the EVE RP community that you have to mention it OOC that your char is, or is going to become, a spy/thief?

Probably because of a natural reaction to being betrayed. Even in EVE it kinda sucks to have a friend do it to you.

[Lyn Farel]

Maybe the issue is more to have friends in Eve.

Then are we all doing it wrong ?

[Saede Riordan]

We are disappointed in the player in question for taking these actions, and the betrayal of trust it represented. I personally had considered this player a friend, and it is not without sorrow that I now rescind that.

Why this? Just because the player did not alert ALXVP OOC about a heist or is there something more going on? Is there a code in the EVE RP community that you have to mention it OOC that your char is, or is going to become, a spy/thief?

Probably because of a natural reaction to being betrayed. Even in EVE it kinda sucks to have a friend do it to you.

That sums it up well Kat. Like, IC/OOC divide may be what it may, but being a spy requires lying to people and abusing your trust in them on an OOC level. My character wasn't betrayed, I was. I had a friend, someone I got along with and trusted out of character and had known for a long time, who decided that 2 billion ISK was worth more then our friendship. That's pretty harsh.

Pick your friends more carefully I guess.

[Evi Polevhia]

Personally I like hanging out with friends and making a bil here and there. I get to do it more in the future. Burning bridges is burning opportunities.

In EVE, I have benefited time and time again from having friends. From intel gathering from the most unlikely sources, to being cut deals, to just having fun people to share the game with. I am not rich by any means but I could shit out a bil right now and not miss it. I don't understand why someone would do shoot themselves in the foot by doing this.

But if you want to isolate yourself from future opportunity over the sake of what is essentially the cost of a Vindicator hull, then I guess that's your own choice.

[Katrina Oniseki]

We are disappointed in the player in question for taking these actions, and the betrayal of trust it represented. I personally had considered this player a friend, and it is not without sorrow that I now rescind that.

Why this? Just because the player did not alert ALXVP OOC about a heist or is there something more going on? Is there a code in the EVE RP community that you have to mention it OOC that your char is, or is going to become, a spy/thief?

On the other hand, there are a lot of people who would just as easily laugh over a corp heist done by their friends. It depends on how close of friends you actually are. If you share drinks in RL and have a strong friendship outside the game, and both take the game as it is (a game), chances are you won't be too upset and have a damaged friendship when your buddy makes off with some pixel money.

If however you met ingame, are friends ingame, and probably had several fights ingame (and take your game seriously)... well, then yes, you'll probably be upset when they screw you over ingame too.
*Havo wuz here.*

[Louella Dougans]

It's the same old argument over whether corp theft is IC/OOC, that's been done several times on backstage.

When people perform the theft, some people say "It's all IC, it's part of the normal EVE game".
Those being stolen from, tend to say, "this is an OOC betrayal, it shouldn't have happened!".

There's a number of anomalies that turn up, e.g. the position that RP corporations should have some form of partial immunity/defence against corp theft (which is a thing that occurs across the wider game), because it's an act that blurs the IC/OOC gap, because of the combinations of game mechanics, and OOC interaction between people in corp chat- e.g. lol'ing at cat pictures. I.e. That it is Wrong for anyone to steal from an RP corp, and the perpetrators should be hounded out of the RP community.

It's also :psyduck: when someone takes both positions - that it's IC and normal part of game (if they're doing it), but it is a terrible OOC betrayal that should never have happened (if it's done to them).


In any case, to say unilaterally that "there is no RP to be had here", I think is wrong. It is an event, that happened, within the game. So, there's some form of RP that can be generated from that. Everything that you do in game, you can RP about/with.

[Havohej]

I can certainly see where the victim(s) of a corp theft feel betrayed OOCly.  As has been stated, it's not all RP, all the time.  We form bonds as players with the people in our corps/alliances.  It's the nature of EVE's unsharded, single persistent game world that we kinda have to bond more closely than players have to in other, less harsh game environments.

This being generally the case, it seems reasonable to me for someone to be pretty pissed/hurt about this happening.  I suffered an 8b corp theft early in my EVE career... wasn't actively RPing at that time, but I don't see myself being any less pissed if someone joined 10k and stole from us.  Especially if it's someone I vouched for or whatever, that'd make it even more personal to me.

At the same time ( ) I agree that it creates opportunity for RP.  I agree that it can be a very RP/IC-motivated act.  I am not unilaterally opposed to corp theft, even with myself/my corp as the target.  I play this game as opposed to those other games for a reason: it's harsh.  I completely approve of and condone corp theft in all of its forms.

Yes, this is a little hypocritical of me.  I'm okay with that.  "It's all fun and games until it happens to you."

Would I continue an OOC friendship with a person who corp-thefted me?  I strongly doubt it.  Do I expect a player to notify me OOC in advance about his/her intent to do so?  Of course not - why the hell would I leave that person's character with access to hard-won gains that I know they mean to steal?  Yes, that violates the IC/OOC divide as I understand it, and yes, I'm okay with that, too.

I think it's just something that has to be chalked up to the nature of the game we love

EDIT:

Maybe the issue is more to have friends in Eve.

Then are we all doing it wrong ?

In fact, yes.  I think that, because of what EVE and New Eden and Capsuleers are all about, having friends in EVE really IS doing it wrong.  But like any MMO, it's extremely difficult and quickly grows boring to not have any friends at all to share your triumphs or your defeats, to laugh with and vent to and cry with when your goldfish dies.  I've formed some very tight friendships with people whom I don't judge and know will not judge me, through this terrible game.  I expect to form more such bonds, especially as I do what I can to help Souchek and co. build their (our) EVE vision.

So yeah... friends in EVE is doing it wrong, in the context of how the game is designed and arguably meant to be played.  But I'm okay with that, too

[Saede Riordan]

+1 to everything Havohej said there. Sums up my thoughts better then I could have.

[Morwen Lagann]

Personally I like hanging out with friends and making a bil here and there. I get to do it more in the future. Burning bridges is burning opportunities.

In EVE, I have benefited time and time again from having friends. From intel gathering from the most unlikely sources, to being cut deals, to just having fun people to share the game with. I am not rich by any means but I could shit out a bil right now and not miss it. I don't understand why someone would do shoot themselves in the foot by doing this.

But if you want to isolate yourself from future opportunity over the sake of what is essentially the cost of a Vindicator hull, then I guess that's your own choice.

This, really.

First of all, once you're a known thief, people are likely to stop recruiting you. At least, intelligent people who actually do security checks on people applying to their corp. You'll quickly find yourself with a limited pool of corporations to fly with on the characters you have and use where you can do anything -but- steal shit from stupid people.

Second, if you're an RPer, stealing from other members of the RP community is generally a really dumb thing to do if you intend to continue having people to RP with, because it'll limit opportunities to RP over time - the vast majority of people aren't going to lol about it OOC if you rob them IC (neither are their friends), and are going to stop RPing with you as a result.

Unless you -like- being treated like a Thieving Scumbag Pariah. In which case, have fun. But you really don't get to complain afterward that nobody wants to RP with you or nobody trusts you. vOv

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Maybe the issue is more to have friends in Eve.

Then are we all doing it wrong ?

In fact, yes.  I think that, because of what EVE and New Eden and Capsuleers are all about, having friends in EVE really IS doing it wrong.  But like any MMO, it's extremely difficult and quickly grows boring to not have any friends at all to share your triumphs or your defeats, to laugh with and vent to and cry with when your goldfish dies.  I've formed some very tight friendships with people whom I don't judge and know will not judge me, through this terrible game.  I expect to form more such bonds, especially as I do what I can to help Souchek and co. build their (our) EVE vision.

So yeah... friends in EVE is doing it wrong, in the context of how the game is designed and arguably meant to be played.  But I'm okay with that, too

I take the opposite view: I've made a lot of friends in EVE and I always benefited from doing so in game as much as out of game. Even if 10% of the friends I made would betray the trust of friendship in a way measureable in "ISK", I'd have made a by far greater profit that's similarly measurable by making and having friends in EVE.

So, I think knowing people and making friends is a great asset to have in EVE and after all is said and done EVE is about interacting with people: The best interaction one can have with other people is in my book pretty much friendship.