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[Casiella]

Director roles are a bad idea anyway... it's like giving somebody root.

[Lillith Blackheart]

I realize much time has passed, however what my weigh-in is is this.

I find that this (bolded parts specifically):

For many incidents that I've felt have crossed a line from good RP to genuine disrespectful tactics I've gone as far as passing IP, email and other details around to enemy organisations for offending pilots whenever we've encountered spies or corp thieves.

is far less acceptable than ingame corp theft.

Corp theft just is. It's no different than scamming people out of isk. It's part of the game. Not only is it part of the game, but CCP endorses it. Like someone else here mentioned, the GH-SC really set the stage for what is and isn't acceptable in EVE, with the Goons taking it to the next level.

The joy of EVE is that it's a completely cut-throat environment. There is no PvE in this game in the grand scheme of things. You're competing for markets. You're competing for salvage. You're competing for 'roids. You're shooting each other out of the skies.

Corp theft is just a prime example of corporate and personal greed. It happens irl in a cut-throat capitalist society. It happens in game. It's realistic and there's nothing wrong with it, so long as it all stays in the game.

As Ghost (I believe) put it, the line is drawn for me at the edge of the gamespace. Hacking accounts/tracing people/giving out personal information is, imo, crossing the line.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Actually, as an addendum, I would like to put forth a question to the OP.

As one who is of the mindset that corptheft is unacceptable - even when entirely ingame, how do you conversely justify internally the OOG datamining?

This is not a flame or anything, this is a legitimate question that I am curious of. What makes the two things different that makes one (completely ingame) unacceptable and the other (which is primarily OOG) acceptable as a response?

[Grr]

For many incidents that I've felt have crossed a line from good RP to genuine disrespectful tactics I've gone as far as passing IP, email and other details around to enemy organisations for offending pilots whenever we've encountered spies or corp thieves.

I've bolded the part of the quote which answers your question.  We've only done it for genuine assholes who would have no issue actually hacking our accounts if they could and who have crossed the line from an ingame decision (which we agree is part of eve) to being a real asshat.

And yes I've passed details to allies AND enemies you will note.  I take great pride in trying to protect the RP community from those who would seek to harm it.  I've done it for years and have no plans to stop.

[Mizhara]

* Mizhara hugs Grr.

[Lillith Blackheart]

For many incidents that I've felt have crossed a line from good RP to genuine disrespectful tactics I've gone as far as passing IP, email and other details around to enemy organisations for offending pilots whenever we've encountered spies or corp thieves.

I've bolded the part of the quote which answers your question.  We've only done it for genuine assholes who would have no issue actually hacking our accounts if they could and who have crossed the line from an ingame decision (which we agree is part of eve) to being a real asshat.

And yes I've passed details to allies AND enemies you will note.  I take great pride in trying to protect the RP community from those who would seek to harm it.  I've done it for years and have no plans to stop.

I don't feel it answers my question. Would that have no issue actually hacking your accounts or have they done it? To me the line of reasoning could be reworded as "We are justified in torturing prisoners at GitMo because they are suspected terrorists."

What constitutes crossing the line to "being a real asshat"?

[Grr]

Case by case basis but one sure way is if I feel lets say that they might do it again to somebody else.  Those who know me will know that I'm a sensible enough person with the RP community at heart so guess you will have to just trust me (or not, neither way matters to me really)

It should be pointed out that this isn't some solitary crusader either.  Some of the biggest RP corps and alliances in eve have worked with me to eliminate troublemakers before.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Of course they might do it again, they're corp thieves. A burglar is very likely going to rob someone again. Working in the gamespace is one thing - informing people of offenders. Datamining their IP address? Sharing emails? You mean to tell you mean don't see that as equivocal if not worse than the initial offense of the corp theft within the gamespace?

[Grr]

No I don't.

[Havohej]

I do.  A whine thread on C&P or IGS to 'out' a corp thief is one thing, passing out someone's personal information is entirely another and quite inappropriate.  It's a game... if someone steals some pixels, they're easy enough to replace.

[Lillith Blackheart]

No I don't.

I agree with Havohej.

Also I would adore to hear the justification that one uses to bridge that little bit of cognitive dissonance.

[Casiella]

Grr, I hope I misunderstand.

Do you think that IG "enemies" (corp thieves and spies), playing according to CCP's rules, should have their IP & email addresses and other RL identifying information passed around, in possible violation of the laws of many jurisdictions (particularly in Europe and the US)?

Can you explain what would qualify a person for this sort of treatment, if not simply stealing from hangars or passing on intel from forums, chat, and voice?

[Grr]

If your looking for a specific set of conditions you're out of luck, as I said its on a case by case basis.  I could name an example however.

Angelonico, posted pictures of overstretch anus's on the Amarr faction warfare forums.  After some heavy modding details were promptly sent to a number of RP corps (enemies and friends) who took precautions to ban him from their vent and forums.  It didn't solve the problem of course as many here know you can change emails and even IPs but certainly I feel protected part of the RP community from offensive material.

Worst I remember doing to actual corp thieves is warning corps who they have joined.

I think this is being blown out of proportion somewhat or a few people are suddenly realising what steps we've had to take to protect this community over the years.  Either way I make no apologies especially when I've played a tiny part in activity done by some of the biggest RP corps and alliances in eve, some that have been doing this for near 7 years.

[Casiella]

That sounds like you had to handle a situation that didn't really have much to do with corp theft or espionage, which probably would have avoided a lot of the "OMG DRAMAZ" posts earlier in this thread (including mine ).

[Silver Night]

To go back to an earlier part of the discussion: It's true for most corp theft that OOC parts are required. I don't think that means that because it requires OOC parts, it is impossible for corp theft to be IC.

Most parts of the game involve both IC and OOC components. Is it the fault of the infiltrator that most (all?) RP corps involve an OOC measure of trust? I think it is more that the system just isn't perfect. It's unfortunate, but looking at it another way: If OOC and IC could be separate enough (Not sure how possible that is. Would take some serious commitment to it on all sides) it wouldn't be an issue. If corp hangars etc are IC, then corp theft should be possible entirely IC too. It is the character that is doing it. That doesn't mean you don't kick them, and tell any new corp they try to join about it. In an ideal world, the player behind a corp thief would be able to give people an OOC heads up, maybe. But there aren't many corps where the OOC trust extends that far. 

My opinion would be that if someone has solid IC motivation for their betrayal, it's a legitimate path to take. Obviously in this case it can be hard to seperate IC and OOC - fair enough. Closing the door on it, though, removes some interesting RP possibilities.