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Author Topic: :Random witty quote about insanity:  (Read 6832 times)

Bong-cha Jones

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #15 on: 22 Jan 2013, 05:33 »

It's more that this looks like a blatant resource grab request that wants the devs to do something that ruined live events the last time they were around and that ended in scandal.  It sounds ridiculous IC (which is fine, I have spent more than a few posts being ridiculous), and it looks highly dubious OOC.  Your main point comes down to 'it's rhetoric for the base', which is also cool (and dear god, explains the vast majority of rp I did with ILF), but is also the sort of thing that gets regularly derided on IGS.

So, you know.  There are separate reasons for both IC and OOC negative reactions to the thread, and they are also par for the course for posts of this kind.
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Davlos

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #16 on: 22 Jan 2013, 05:48 »

But seriously, the hate.  I don't get it?  Because I like to RP I should not be able to enjoy the game in the way that I want to?  And I thought I was elitist.  Just wow.

Selective reading much? I just pointed out what Goonswarm did to destroy what was one of the best and unique features in the MMO industry for roleplay (read: AURORA and live events) and you claim ignorance? I'm the one with English as my second language for crying out loud.
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BloodBird

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #17 on: 22 Jan 2013, 05:59 »

Leaving numbered notes.

Again, let me reiterate, I know it's not going to happen.  Glad we cleared that up.

Also, apparently Aliza telling someone ICly to go and off themselves because of their horrible posting is against the rules.  Does CCP even play this game?  It's not like I said they should do it IRL.  (Although, having met The Wiz, I can really understand where Mittani came from there.)(*1)

And it's just the Goon kool-aid.  You'll notice I left FA.  I'm a Goon, not a F.A.G.  Glad we cleared that up, too! (*2)

Edit:
"How can anyone here who claims to be part of the RP community in their good conscience join Goonswarm and flaunt their less than week-old membership in our faces?"

I was well involved in Goonfleet before I joined Amok.  It was a pretty simple matter to join.  There was a jabber ping: hey, Rydis, can we talk?  Then there was some talking on mumble and then I apped and was accepted.  For those that know anything about joining nullsec alliances you will understand how unusual that is.  Hell, I didn't even give her my API until after I was in.  Seriously, it took less than an hour. (*3)

But seriously, the hate.  I don't get it?  Because I like to RP I should not be able to enjoy the game in the way that I want to?  And I thought I was elitist.  Just wow. (*4)

1) If this Wiz guy is who I think and you agree with Mittens on how he should be treated, then I feel somewhat sorry for you. Mittens was temp-banned for his actions and while he and the Goons bitched about how unfair this was, pretty much the rest of EVE wondered why he was not perma-banned. You don't want to fall into the same trap, though if you honestly believe so, it don't help on point 2.

2) Your announcement on the IGS and here, atl to me, reeks of Goon-level trolling and quasi-IC RP-bashing. That's as simple and nice I can say it, and it will likely get my post and/or this whole tread cata'ed for being very YDIW. That might be for the best, in the long term. The terms are absurd, the attitude reeks of arrogance and condensation, and you openly refer to non-Goons as 'pubies' and treat people like they are lesser beings. Very goon-like behavior. You also claim to be on a level where you can bring this about with a few words to Mittens, basically acting like your in a position of considerable power in the Goons, and topping it off with the attitude that all the Empires need do to deal with the Sansha, is bend over to the Goons and let them deal with it, because supposedly, everyone else is incompetent and can't do it.

All of this can indeed be shortened to 'goon kool-aid'.

3) How fast you can join and who you can talk to is somewhat irrelevant next to the fact that someone who has spent a very short time in any corp/alliance is not likely to be considered a high-grade member or anyone of authority. I could go say a simple 4-word like to someone in a powerful corp in a good (supposedly) alliance and I'd be a member about as fast as you were, perhaps even minus the API check, so this proves rather little. It does not add any credibility to claims.

4) You are not being opposed because you RP, it's never been about that. You are being opposed because your toon became a member of a little-respected entity with a long and annoying history, then, less than a week in, you made a highly self-serving and absolutely absurd proposal that no-one in their right mind would agree with, and you take it badly that your proposal is taken badly. This is not being elitist, this is called crying out against a highly disliked entity making an extremely controversial move.

At any rate, you can RP whatever or whoever you like, but all actions have consequences, and yours happen to have had plenty of bad ones. You will have to deal with that.
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kalaratiri

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #18 on: 22 Jan 2013, 10:20 »

This thread combined with the IGS one is basically the funniest thing I've read in ages.

Aliza, you should mention how much Mittens and Rydis love you in even more of your posts.

That will totally win us over. Yeah.

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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Vincent Pryce

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #19 on: 22 Jan 2013, 10:40 »

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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #20 on: 22 Jan 2013, 12:23 »

Okay, so I'll take a shot at answering this...

Putting aside IC reasoning for several moments - that's an entirely separate matter, and as you say rather more understandable - I think there are two major reasons why you might feel like you are picking up on some OOC annoyance as well.

The first is that, as people have commented on, your post raises the ugly specters of favoritism and ingame monopolies, two things that -really- rile the community up. As major issues that both doomed the previous live events team (AURORA, see above) and that are hotly debated even among the non-RP community (see: debates on the Tech monopolies, t20 incident, etc) people may very well be feeling a sort of automatic rejection of something that has lead to a lot of OOC, even OOG drama in the past.

The second has some to do with the first, but is somewhat different: Frankly, many RPers do not wish to have goonswarm intrude on our territory. Yes, we know you are vastly powerful, both economically and militarily. Yes, we know you can flood an entire region with people in a way we cannot. Yes, we know you have oodles of supercaps already, etc...
In short, yes, we know the CFC are more objectively capable than us. Frankly, however, we don't need to be reminded - considering the recent discussion on NPC kill numbers, I think it is clear that while the RP community understands that Goons are powerful, it rubs us the wrong way when it is thrown in our faces that we cannot match the (to us) faceless, mindless, zerg-ey hordes of nullsec. Furthermore, your post could be read as suggesting that this makes Goons somehow "more deserving" of special gear than actual community members, which brings us back to point one.
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Safai

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #21 on: 22 Jan 2013, 15:48 »

Esna just expressed exactly what I was feeling in response to that/this thread. Read all of his words there.
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Alizabeth

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #22 on: 22 Jan 2013, 16:54 »

Okay, so I'll take a shot at answering this...

Putting aside IC reasoning for several moments - that's an entirely separate matter, and as you say rather more understandable - I think there are two major reasons why you might feel like you are picking up on some OOC annoyance as well.

The first is that, as people have commented on, your post raises the ugly specters of favoritism and ingame monopolies, two things that -really- rile the community up. As major issues that both doomed the previous live events team (AURORA, see above) and that are hotly debated even among the non-RP community (see: debates on the Tech monopolies, t20 incident, etc) people may very well be feeling a sort of automatic rejection of something that has lead to a lot of OOC, even OOG drama in the past.

The second has some to do with the first, but is somewhat different: Frankly, many RPers do not wish to have goonswarm intrude on our territory. Yes, we know you are vastly powerful, both economically and militarily. Yes, we know you can flood an entire region with people in a way we cannot. Yes, we know you have oodles of supercaps already, etc...
In short, yes, we know the CFC are more objectively capable than us. Frankly, however, we don't need to be reminded - considering the recent discussion on NPC kill numbers, I think it is clear that while the RP community understands that Goons are powerful, it rubs us the wrong way when it is thrown in our faces that we cannot match the (to us) faceless, mindless, zerg-ey hordes of nullsec. Furthermore, your post could be read as suggesting that this makes Goons somehow "more deserving" of special gear than actual community members, which brings us back to point one.

On the subject of favoritism: as long as CCP has any sort of live events team that has any meaningful interaction with the players, that is going to show up.  Silas is throwing a party.  Cool.  Falcon, I'm assuming, is going to be attending as the Blood Raider actor.  Suppose CTCS, a sani sabik corp with a much longer history throws a party and no actor attends.  That's CCP's fault for getting involved.  Either treat everyone equally or don't get involved at all.  If the live events team is not willing to even make the slightest comment on my thread saying, "No, subsection 123.324a of the Assembly Charter prevents the transfer of any ships or technology to third parties for any reason.  We're still willing to pay out bounties for the destruction of Nation ships and hope you will take advantage of that" (That took me all of five seconds to make up and I don't even work for CCCP.)  then they need to be examined closely by IA.  Either RP and interact with everyone that wants to RP, or don't interact at all.  The only favoritism I've seen so far is from live events to the old boys club of RP.  Falcon hangs out in the Summit and OOC and Red's District and a few other places.  I suspect that will prove to be a huge mistake.  I wasn't playing when AURORA was around. I heard about it, though, from the community members.  And the same mistakes that I heard AURORA made, CCP is making even now.

So, Goons made a fuss about AURORA.  Suppose that a goon talked to IA about someone from the live events team breaking certain internal rules.  Suppose IA agreed and the live events team was transferred to the mail room.  Who's fault would that bee? (there's a joke there, see it?)  Goons, or IA or the people that broke the rules to begin with?

As far as Tech.  That's CCP game design.  Don't blame goons for CCP's inability to balance a game on the meta level.  (Dear Fozzie, keep it up with the ships!)  CCP has yet to do anything right in nullsec.  The anom nerf, moon mining, dominion sov mechanics and the proposed ignoring of POSes are some of the worst ideas coming out of CCP since Tonyg wrote TEA. 

T20: absolutely nothing done in secret is a good thing.  When I played WoW, the guild I was in had a Blizzard executive in it.  Not just a dev or a GM, but an executive.  A few times, he messed with the loot tables to make an orange drop.  In WoW, that's one thing.  An legendary or two is not going to make any difference to the game.  On a single shared server, where the only thing that matters is my ability to wage war and spread hate and discontent, that would matter.  This is a PVP game.  T20 acted in secret, and tried to change the very nature of the game.  It would have been as if out Bliz exec had adjusted the boss's HP to one and made him unkillable to everyone else in the game for a few months while we farmed him.

"[M]any RPers do not wish to have goonswarm intrude on our territory."  I would see nothing but good things happening to the RP community if Goons started RPing en mass.  I have a couple of things in the works that I hope will bring more goons into RP.  Hell, if I can get Mittens and no one else, I'll declare victory.  All aspects in Eve should be open to all.  Period.  For certain members of the current RP community to feel themselves gatekeepers to the world of EVE RP is wrong on so many levels.  I don't want to see the RP community destroyed, so I would beg everyone, with tears in my eyes, not to go down this path.  Set a seat at the table for everyone that wants to join the feast. 

"Furthermore, your post could be read as suggesting that this makes Goons somehow "more deserving" of special gear than actual community members, which brings us back to point one."

Simple economics.  How big is the RP community.  How big is just the GSF, not the CFC? (my proposal was not a goon one, per se, rather a coalition one.)  If you are Hilmar, looking at your budget figures, which group would you say is more important to the bottom line?  Which group can, literally, destroy the game.  (Goons don't want to.  If Goons wanted to, it would have happened after Mittani was temp-banned.)  We all pay the same :15 bux: a month for this terrible internet spaceship game.  Does that make goons more deserving?  Maybe, maybe not.  That's CCP's call.  Does that mean that goons should not be ignored by live events (if Goons want to get involved) simply because our backstage post count is not as high as others?  Absolutely.  Again, let me reiterate.  I knew when I was typing up that post, OOCly, that it was never, ever going to happen.  Even if I sent Hilmar nude pics.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #23 on: 22 Jan 2013, 17:53 »

I think loading your prose with not so veiled threats against the live events team, and the game in general, is going to start your proposal off on a bad foot.

The whole 'we deserve special attention because there are so many of us and we'll throw a tantrum if you don't' attitude is incredibly off putting to other people and you know it.

It doesn't build community, it's a common 'goon' attitude, and one of many many reasons RP types in general don't like 'goon' types.

And since you are an intelligent writer and do know all this, I'm not seeing it as much more than a troll thread, yes?



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Silas Vitalia

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #24 on: 22 Jan 2013, 17:59 »

For the record the CTCS did throw an event the actor did attend, and Silas did not. 

« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2013, 18:14 by Silas Vitalia »
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Davlos

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #25 on: 22 Jan 2013, 18:08 »

This thread combined with the IGS one is basically the funniest thing I've read in ages.

Aliza, you should mention how much Mittens and Rydis love you in even more of your posts.

That will totally win us over. Yeah.



I was about to say: the Chinese words make no sense! Then I was like.... ohhhhhhhhhh!
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #26 on: 22 Jan 2013, 18:21 »

So if you don't expect it to happen, what do you expect from it?

Alizabeth

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #27 on: 22 Jan 2013, 18:44 »

I think loading your prose with not so veiled threats against the live events team, and the game in general, is going to start your proposal off on a bad foot.

The whole 'we deserve special attention because there are so many of us and we'll throw a tantrum if you don't' attitude is incredibly off putting to other people and you know it.

It doesn't build community, it's a common 'goon' attitude, and one of many many reasons RP types in general don't like 'goon' types.

And since you are an intelligent writer and do know all this, I'm not seeing it as much more than a troll thread, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsrXc3neQ6c#t=1m47s

If I threaten someone, I'm going to have the integrity to do it openly.  I like Eve Online (a truly terrible internet spaceship game).  Hell, everytime I get locked away in the the hospital I go through withdraws.  No shit, I've tried to get addicted to everything from nicotine to opiates and have utterly failed (when I wrote my original post, I had taken like 5 vicodin an hour before.)  So far the only thing that I seem to be able to get addicted to is Eve.  So no, I'm not threatening the game.  If I had evidence that CCP Falcon or someone else was in violation of the rules, I would report them to IA, but there is no evidence that they had.  My point was that CCP is walking a fine line with the live events team. 

Goonswarm is full of players that pay the same :15 bux: a month to play the same game everyone else does.  We deserve the same opportunity afforded to other players.  I hope the GSF CSM delegate makes that point at the next CSM summit.

@Kat.

For there to be RP, nothing actually happens in space.  TBP is full of people emoting drinking and talking.  I hoped to get some decent replies (I did) and provide an interesting point of discussion.  No one looked at the proposal and said: I agree with you Kuvakei is bad and we should definitely drag his corpse through the streets.  CONCORD's not going to agree to all of the terms, but here's another course of action we could take: whatever the character came up with.  Hell if someone from the live events had posted, "we're not ready for a full invasion of Stain yet, but in this system here there's a structure (or whatever) that if you can hold off Nation ships, we'll insert a ground team to raid the computers and get more intel."  That would have been amazing.  When I was sixteen, I asked my parents for a car.  I pointed out that I had never been arrested, never come home drunk and didn't skip school.  I didn't get the car, and I knew I would not, but we worked out something else that I wanted and was more in line with reality. That's what I expected.  Someone to come back and say: no on your proposal, but here's something we can do.

A few weeks ago I was working on something for Mittens.  He made his original offer, then told me to negotiate and what we would really accept.  The two were not the same.  I tried to make that as clear as I could ICly that we were open to negotiations, even though admitting that was actually out of character for Aliza.

@Kala.  Icly, Aliza is the only one to have slept with Mittens.  And Rydis loves me. 
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #28 on: 22 Jan 2013, 18:49 »

Best of luck with life; I really hope you get things sorted out.

As far as internet spaceships go, I'm not going to have anything to do with any of this in the future. You all have fun.

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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: :Random witty quote about insanity:
« Reply #29 on: 22 Jan 2013, 18:54 »

Best of luck with life; I really hope you get things sorted out.

As far as internet spaceships go, I'm not going to have anything to do with any of this in the future. You all have fun.

I second this notion.
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