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Author Topic: "urdoinitrong"  (Read 15478 times)

Lyn Farel

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #15 on: 06 Jul 2012, 05:18 »

I have never been comfortable with rogue drone RP or non-human entities in Eve. It does not really annoy me the slightest, but it still definitly falls into the can of worms.

How I see that issue is mostly a storm in a kettle syndrome that I often see on these forums as much as ingame in the OOC channel. I may be a little rude and apologize in advance but I think most people take things in the wrong way. Anyone of you remember the eve wiki article on roleplay ? Not that it has to be the Canon of roleplay (that single idea is simply ridiculous), but there is an interesting line in the guidelines part.

Be Human - Your main character is a "pod pilot" or "capsuleer" - a human equipped with implants and equipment that make it possible to fly a spaceship controlled from within a "pod" or "capsule." While you may claim to be something else, chances of anyone believing you are slim.

Since they are guidelines, it is at best, advice, and not rules, unlike some people here seem to think. And the key point for me is around these semantics. ADVICE. It means here that you can perfectly choose to play something else, alien. But that advice warns people about the consequences it can bring upon the character in question. And consequences will inevitably come.

OOCly, I have absolutely nothing against that. If it breaks my immersion, fine, as already mentionned above, I have plenty of tools to ignore him, and will only have to blame myself if it breaks my immersion because I choosed not to use those tools and just can't control myself to the point to be a killjoy for everyone that even have nothing to do with this. As long as it remains IC for me, I do not even see why people are bringing that OOCly. He pretends to be a rogue drone ? Fine, mock him ICly, just tell him you do not believe him, believe him, or just ignore him, whatever works for your character. If the guy in question can't take this, then the blame is to be put on himself and himself only for not following that simple ADVICE. But as soon as someone starts to bring that OOCly (that is called OOC bleeding by the way), then the guy in question is not the only one to be blamed anymore. And to the guy that reacted to this OOCly because it breaks his immersion or whatever, well done dude, you may have just fallen into the trap of a troll, who knows, he was maybe just waiting for the first idiot to feed him OOCly ?  :roll:

Really, it all sums up to this : as long as everything is done IC, I do not see where is the issue. Do you all think that Muck Raker or Vaari have to be shot down OOCly because what they claim ICly is pure bullshit ? I do not think so, and look at what happens continuously on the IGS for example : they continue to get flak from the majority of the characters answering to their topics, because well, these characters think obviously that what they are saying is pure bullshit. And so what ? Do people cross over and start to piss in their cheerios OOCly as well ? I don't think so, indeed. So, why the contrary with this rogue drone guy ? Because you think that his RP has no quality or something ? Or is there something else that I have missed ?

My adivce is : stop always playing the offended OOCly when something happens IC. It is selfish and childish, and most of all, arrogant, at best, and only proves that you can not make the difference between OOC and IC as well as you think.

( note : the "you" here is not adressed to people in particular )


In-game reality: You can't join Mordu's

What I claim about my 2 primary characters: They are part of "Mordu's Surveillance Operations" working as part of the contract to provide security services in Intaki

How does it benefit anyone in any way if I were to suddenly find myself being hounded in IC venues by one or more other characters constantly about this inconsistency?

I'm just attempting to illustrate once again that it's one thing to balk at space werewolves but another entirely to endlessly nit-pick over minutiae that is lore friendly but not supported by game mechanics.

As I said in another thread, I choosed to play an Ammatar myself, and I do not see why we wouldnt have minor bloodlines capsuleers as well (would make no sense). And yet the game has its own limits that makes my RP conflicts with the CONCORD database. I basically decided to pick up something that was potentially dangerous since it can conflict a little with the sacred "what happens ingame is king". So, as I said above it is always about the same thing : the more you play on the suspension of disbelief, the more are the chances for people thinking that your character is crazy, ICly.

In my case or maybe in yours (I do not know for you), I have never really had to deal with OOC influenced flak from someone else since people usually like to have players coming from subfactions, since it basically adds a lot of richness (<- is that the correct word ?) to the player generated RP enveloppe that we all live in. And this is fortunate, and it is also always what makes me cringe when I read that kind of topic.
« Last Edit: 06 Jul 2012, 05:26 by Lyn Farel »
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Matariki Rain

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #16 on: 06 Jul 2012, 05:58 »

For those people who don't want jarring default NPC corps showing in their histories, create your own corps with appropriate-sounding names and manage your corp transfers so you never pass through the NPC corp.

"Mordu's SurveIllance Operations" seems to be available, for instance.
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Gessenier

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #17 on: 06 Jul 2012, 06:24 »

These days I think I tend to run with a, "At least it's not Twilight: Breaking Dawn", Philosophy to RP and some might say that so long as things don't involve glittervamps on tropical islands, vampire sex, or werewolf baby-lovers I'm setting my standards pretty low and it might be the case. However, I've always taken the viewpoint that RP in Eve is just as much a sandbox as the rest of the game. The background and fiction are deliberately kept vague and nebulous because it's up to players to dictate and define how they and their characters view New Eden and the respective factions. There are no real objective standards provided because it's differing individual perspectives that matter.

It's that conflict of differing perceptions and opinions that creates tension and fundamentally good reasons to shoot each other in face which in turn creates good opportunities for RP. I find nothing wrong with telling others they're doing it wrong in an IC context due to fundamental disagreements in worldview and ideology because to me this is New Eden and it is a world built upon war and death and things would get damn boring if it was the United Nations in space and our characters were expected to talk things out and come to understandings and binding resolutions without resort to violence.

Now that I think about it I guess I've been doing it wrong all this time because I've always treated Eve as an anything goes pvp game where even RP itself can be a non-consensual and you have to  to HTFU and learn to maintain your immersion through creative doublethink and acts of rationalization. The only other option I see is to seek to spend your time inside the walls of an Ivory Tower with a select clique raging at anyone that breaks your precious suspension of disbelief by not conforming to whatever arbitrary preconceived notions on the fiction you may have conjured up (Because that's what they are).

I guess I just prefer player/characters that are willing to go on a tangent and cop some flak for it, but provide the potential for interaction and conflict as opposed to player/characters that prefer to snipe from the sidelines behind the walls of their sandcastles.

*shrugs*
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Vikarion

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #18 on: 06 Jul 2012, 19:48 »

I'm not sure that it's really fair to post a topic like this, since one of the rules of the board is that we shouldn't tell others that they are "doing it wrong". If we disagree with the OP, we are in essence doing just that, aren't we?

Rather unlikely that one will have one's thesis strongly contradicted then, at least for long. Persons with a more cynical streak might label that a tad convenient.

As to my response, I think lots of people are role-playing in settings not justified by or even contraindicated by the PF. To stay on this side of the thin blue line, however, I won't say whom, or what, sets me off.
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Casiella

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #19 on: 06 Jul 2012, 21:17 »

The question isn't whether people RP "right" but how we react when we think they aren't.
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Makkal

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #20 on: 07 Jul 2012, 01:32 »

I'm not sure that it's really fair to post a topic like this, since one of the rules of the board is that we shouldn't tell others that they are "doing it wrong". If we disagree with the OP, we are in essence doing just that, aren't we?

Paradox:
People X think that People Y rdoingitwrong
People Z think that People X rdoingitwrong when they say that People Y rdoingitwrong.
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Merdaneth

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #21 on: 07 Jul 2012, 05:20 »

Why is it okay to have my immersion broken by a 'silly character', but it's not okay to risk breaking anyone else's immersion by saying something about it IC or OOC? Are those who think a character is ridiculous supposed to swallow it, or just go RP somewhere else? Where should a line be drawn?

The line should be drawn at intention.

Unintentionally fucking up other people's RP is allright.

Intentionally trying to fuck up other people's RP is not cool.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #22 on: 07 Jul 2012, 05:30 »

Why is it okay to have my immersion broken by a 'silly character', but it's not okay to risk breaking anyone else's immersion by saying something about it IC or OOC? Are those who think a character is ridiculous supposed to swallow it, or just go RP somewhere else? Where should a line be drawn?

The line should be drawn at intention.

Unintentionally fucking up other people's RP is allright.

Intentionally trying to fuck up other people's RP is not cool.

I like that. thank you for clarifying.

Kybernetes Moros

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #23 on: 07 Jul 2012, 07:02 »

I just found that going somewhere else when characters that stretched my immersion appeared worked best, honestly. I quite enjoyed the Rogue Drone RP as done by Rogue Drone Systems, even if I've not quite seen it done so well since; the bigger issues for me were the intermittent Mary Sues, space sluts and when people would do nothing in the channel but complain about how little sense a given character made or how crazy they were.

That last isn't necessarily immersion breaking in itself, but it's not my thing at all and is slightly relevant to the topic at hand: I didn't like it, so I went and found somewhere else to RP or, heaven forbid, something else to do for a bit. It isn't srsbsns; if it's boring, frustrating, or anything else like that, I prefer just to gtfo.
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Nmaro Makari

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #24 on: 07 Jul 2012, 08:56 »

Well it's a Nice idea but like most nice ideas it's ruined by the fact that some people definitely, and undeniably do it wrong.

The crazy person high on blue pill removing their clothing in the summit, rogue drones RPers, Or others who annoy the shit out of people.These people do it right.

People who do it wrong are those who directly contradict, take great liberties with or deliberately ignore the both Prime Fiction and basic common sense.

tl;dr: some people do it wrong, but people are not wrong just because they rub you up the wrong way with their IC act.
« Last Edit: 07 Jul 2012, 08:59 by Nmaro Makari »
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Seriphyn

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #25 on: 07 Jul 2012, 09:25 »

tl;dr: some people do it wrong, but people are not wrong just because they rub you up the wrong way with their IC act.

Yes, I agree with this. Like ban requests for RP channels...I don't think it's fair or just that people being huffy about someone is grounds for a banning, as much as I can empathize with their position of not liking them.
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Kybernetes Moros

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #26 on: 07 Jul 2012, 09:38 »

Well, yeah. As I said -- if you'd rather spend time complaining at a character you dislike rather than just doing something else, I kinda question if you have a bit much time to spare.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #27 on: 07 Jul 2012, 10:33 »

Was someone banned ?
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Seriphyn

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #28 on: 07 Jul 2012, 12:35 »

Nah, this is a continuing thing. I remember Seriphyn was asked to be banned from Summit. Nothing particular, I think some people just found his behaviour there intolerable/offensive/whatever.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: "urdoinitrong"
« Reply #29 on: 07 Jul 2012, 13:40 »

Nah, this is a continuing thing. I remember Seriphyn was asked to be banned from Summit. Nothing particular, I think some people just found his behaviour there intolerable/offensive/whatever.

Seriphyn's character is genius. Unapologetic, gruff and crude, passionately Fed. He's hard to like IC, but hard to dislike OOC.
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