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[Kybernetes Moros]

With all thats said, worth remembering that theres such a thing as good taste, so inevitably bad OOC feelings could develop quite natuarally.

Without a medium to express OOC issues in an honest way, the RP community will just eat itself alive. A cloak-and-dagger post on Backstage, as is so often the case for people's OOC issues, is simply inadequate for solving the problem.

But then I'm the sort of person who preferred the summit better when it was quasi-anarchy. Much preferred.

I'd have hoped that talking to someone OOC about a problem would be the first thing done over some indirect snipe on a forum. Granted, I'm in part hypocritical there since outside the game I don't particularly have the drive to do the former when it arises (hey, I'm not playing: the irritation is at best minor), but I don't do the latter either so I guess it balances out.

On the other hand, though, it may not be the best of moves with the propensity towards drama I've seen. :\

[Kazzzi]

Step by step analysis of EVE RP

1. Community complains there isn't enough RP
2. Character tries to RP for an ingame faction
3. Character gets heckled, ignored or ostracized for doing something that's been done 80000 times already
4. Character tries something that hasn't been done 80000 times already
5. Character gets heckled, ignored or ostracized for being unconventional
6. Community complains there isn't enough RP

[BloodBird]

7. A fellow RP'er makes a snide remark on an OOC board to remind us we are all morons 50% of our waking time D:

[Merdaneth]

The line should be drawn at intention.

Unintentionally fucking up other people's RP is allright.

Intentionally trying to fuck up other people's RP is not cool.

And if you're doing it for entirely IC reasons? "You represent everything I wish to destroy in this universe. I will not attack you for this."

You cannot intentionally fuck up someone's RP IC, since you character isn't aware of any RP going on.

If, when choosing between several alternatives you character has to respond to some RP situation, you intentionally choose that response that you think would be the worst for the other person's RP (even though it is a valid alternative), then yes, you are intentionally fucking up someone's RP.

[Nmaro Makari]

Well thats another thing, people want EVE to be a theatre when its actually a sandbox.

Someone comes along and "ruins" your RP? Well thats just tough, and thats EVE. Being an RPer should not seperate us from what is fundamentally EVE, a nasty universe, filled with assholes, pretty fundamental principle, which should be obvious. Just RP that you werent successful and move on. Or ragequit.

Point being, if your RP is "ruined" then its no use sulking and raging. This silly idea that when someone kills someone elses RP plans (intentionally or otherwise) they're "ruining" RP is nonsense and contrary to the game of EVE and makes the RP community as a whole look like hissy control freaks who are sore losers.

[Merdaneth]

Someone comes along and "ruins" your RP? Well thats just tough, and thats EVE. Being an RPer should not seperate us from what is fundamentally EVE, a nasty universe, filled with assholes, pretty fundamental principle, which should be obvious. Just RP that you werent successful and move on. Or ragequit.

Point being, if your RP is "ruined" then its no use sulking and raging. This silly idea that when someone kills someone elses RP plans (intentionally or otherwise) they're "ruining" RP is nonsense and contrary to the game of EVE and makes the RP community as a whole look like hissy control freaks who are sore losers.

In my experience only very few people are assholes. Some people might act like assholes towards others because they think it will gain them something (like recognition from their peers).

In fact using 'the universe is full of assholes' and 'that's EVE' to me feels like someone trying to justify his own assholish behaviour and not making an actual argument, which isn't helped by using labels like 'sulking, raging, hissy control freaks and sore losers'.

What I like about the sandbox is that it gives you the freedom to act in a way that other people might find offensive without some central authority trying to prevent it. That fact that you can act as an asshole absolutely doesn't mean acting like that is either a desired or acceptable behaviour. It merely means that we're policing the rules of conduct based on debate and mutual respect, and not with guns, prison sentences or ban hammers.

[Seriphyn]

In fact using 'the universe is full of assholes' and 'that's EVE' to me feels like someone trying to justify his own assholish behaviour and not making an actual argument, which isn't helped by using labels like 'sulking, raging, hissy control freaks and sore losers'.

Have all my Internets.

Also, no one is saying UR DOIN IT RONG with me having made up a spaceship that doesn't exist in-game and saying Seri is supervising a bunch of high school girls on some extracurricular trip. Not in a poking way, but is there any reason for that? I feel it is because I am not a new member of the RP community, so I can "get away with it". If I was new, maybe not the same...

[Makkal]

In my experience only very few people are assholes. Some people might act like assholes towards others because they think it will gain them something (like recognition from their peers).

I don't see much of a difference between being an asshole and acting like an asshole, unless you're talking about IC/OOC. I didn't gather that from your post though.

[Casiella]

The line should be drawn at intention.

Unintentionally fucking up other people's RP is allright.

Intentionally trying to fuck up other people's RP is not cool.

And if you're doing it for entirely IC reasons? "You represent everything I wish to destroy in this universe. I will not attack you for this."

Wardecs are roleplay, too: so pewing somebody who represents something you oppose is a much better choice than loudly proclaiming to any and all that Character X is a sham and should be ignored, etc etc.

[Merdaneth]

I don't see much of a difference between being an asshole and acting like an asshole, unless you're talking about IC/OOC. I didn't gather that from your post though.

About as much different as being stupid and acting stupid.

Or being paranoid and acting paranoid.

[Esna Pitoojee]

The line should be drawn at intention.

Unintentionally fucking up other people's RP is allright.

Intentionally trying to fuck up other people's RP is not cool.

And if you're doing it for entirely IC reasons? "You represent everything I wish to destroy in this universe. I will not attack you for this."

Wardecs are roleplay, too: so pewing somebody who represents something you oppose is a much better choice than loudly proclaiming to any and all that Character X is a sham and should be ignored, etc etc.

Here's the issue, I run into a lot, Cass: Esna has determined through various IC means (talking to people, actual on-site recon, etc) that the target has no static in-space assets, or they can easily move to an un-interdictable stance (always flying cloaky, etc.), or their in-space assets are far off in Null and he cannot effectively reach them (or some mixture of the above).

However, he CAN - using entirely IC means - disperse highly damaging information about the target, or sabotage their efforts through non-game-mechanic means, or some other means to badly damage their current operations. When doing this, he will still opt to take the most damaging route possible - because really, why shouldn't he? - which will often mean trying to cripple someone's long-term operations. However, I can't help but feel this is somewhat unfair to them.

[Nmaro Makari]

Someone comes along and "ruins" your RP? Well thats just tough, and thats EVE. Being an RPer should not seperate us from what is fundamentally EVE, a nasty universe, filled with assholes, pretty fundamental principle, which should be obvious. Just RP that you werent successful and move on. Or ragequit.

Point being, if your RP is "ruined" then its no use sulking and raging. This silly idea that when someone kills someone elses RP plans (intentionally or otherwise) they're "ruining" RP is nonsense and contrary to the game of EVE and makes the RP community as a whole look like hissy control freaks who are sore losers.

In my experience only very few people are assholes. Some people might act like assholes towards others because they think it will gain them something (like recognition from their peers).

In fact using 'the universe is full of assholes' and 'that's EVE' to me feels like someone trying to justify his own assholish behaviour and not making an actual argument, which isn't helped by using labels like 'sulking, raging, hissy control freaks and sore losers'.

What I like about the sandbox is that it gives you the freedom to act in a way that other people might find offensive without some central authority trying to prevent it. That fact that you can act as an asshole absolutely doesn't mean acting like that is either a desired or acceptable behaviour. It merely means that we're policing the rules of conduct based on debate and mutual respect, and not with guns, prison sentences or ban hammers.

Now, for the actual meat and potatoes, all I'm doing is paraphrasing CCP who have reffered to EVE's players as "Intelligent Assholes". But that on its own is hardly enough. So lets actually compare EVE to oter MMO's. In other MMO's "asshole" behavior is often punished, things like corp thefts are nothing like they are in EVE. In EVE things like the Ubiqua Seraph heist are not only looked upon as monumental, but worth aspiring to. As another thread pointed out, recruiters in EVE can be rediculously meticulous with their security checks. On top of that, observe the Hulkageddon series or the Goonswarm ice mining fiasco.

All of this is just the surface, and the point is thus: The EVE universe, both in fiction and gameplay is deliberately set as lawless and unfriendly, especially for capsuleers. But we as the RP community seem to have blocked out both gameplay and sometimes fiction in order to accomodate the fear of looking bad OOC.

[Casiella]

[mod]Keep the personal attacks out of the thread, please.[/mod]

[Nmaro Makari]

Also, no one is saying UR DOIN IT RONG with me having made up a spaceship that doesn't exist in-game and saying Seri is supervising a bunch of high school girls on some extracurricular trip. Not in a poking way, but is there any reason for that? I feel it is because I am not a new member of the RP community, so I can "get away with it". If I was new, maybe not the same...

In one way, its kind of the natural thing. The older players know their way around both gameplay and backstory so only natural to be looked to for guidence. But, the RP community has a dangerous tendency to pander to its celebrities, IC and OOC no matter what they do, which is all indicative of a much deeper problem of veteran RPers to pass down skills and knowledge.

[Desiderya]

Civilian yacht full of schoolgirls might be slightly more possible and unimportant than what your standard special unique snowflake usually comes up with. Apparently 'normal capsuleers' are so uncool.

@Cas; wardecs
You'll find that most of the people you might want to hit for RP reasons are alts. Usually a good way to spot things is: The bigger their claims, the smaller their organization/corporation, the less likely they're to actually play EVE in space.