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[Katrina Oniseki]

Okay, so I think it's time for me to come to the community and ask for help. I've noticed a disturbing trend with my RP growing lately, and I'd like to see what I can do to fix it. Some of the same issues might be restated from previous conversations or posts I've made OOC. This is because they are still an issue. If you have suggested  advice before, please don't take this as I have ignored you. I'm either still trying to follow it or have forgotten completely.

The problem is this. I am frustrated with the IC conflict. Considering this is EVE, that's a pretty huge problem since conflict is EVE's shining virtue. I'll start by outlining the reasons I've found this issue keeps popping up in order of importance:

• There is too much of OOC me in IC Katrina's personality. When someone attacks her, it bleeds through.
• Katrina is being played as a well educated and composed Caldari, but I am neither formally well educated nor composed. It is difficult for me to pretend to be either.
• I keep looking for happy-story escapism RP, where EVE is more about conflict RP.
• Katrina both as a character and me as a player may suffer from several of these issues: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

Initially I approached this growing problem with apprehension and suspicion, wondering if I even really had a problem with RP. Maybe it was just specific people making things difficult for me, or maybe it was 'just a bad day' to RP. I asked around but didn't really get a defined solution for the problem because I didn't realize what the problem was.

As it got worse and continued to happen, I quickly grew tired of RP and started mocking and abusing the RP system to try and distance myself from what I considered a flawed community. This is most publicly evidenced by my (to quote a friend) "shitposting on the IGS". I thought the RP community was wrong, or maybe full of bittervets, or maybe just plain bad.

Now after finding the above listed issues, I come to the community to ask for advice. How can I make EVE RP more fun for me, while avoiding the frustrating and sometimes depressing issues that seem to plague my attempts? How do I remove myself from Katrina, and enjoy EVE in the dystopian and conflict ridden light it better deserves? How do I play a better Caldari character that isn't just another Gallente stereotype (because I have a very Gallente personality IRL)?

[Ember Vykos]

Reserved so I can reply when you're not blaring music into my ears through some weird witchery since you don't have a mic and I can still hear everything you're playing. Good music selection btw.

Now then proper reply which is going to mirror a lot of what's below me.

 

How can I make EVE RP more fun for me, while avoiding the frustrating and sometimes depressing issues that seem to plague my attempts?

I think that's really up to you. A storyline or similar arc would be a good place to start. Explore other sides of Kat's nature or her past a bit more. Maybe you'll find something in there that will help you deal with some of the issues you're having.

How do I remove myself from Katrina, and enjoy EVE in the dystopian and conflict ridden light it better deserves?

The way I do this with Simca is to use certain parts of my personality depending on the situation she's in while still keeping her own past and motivations in the picture. It's a bit of a balancing act, but it works well for me. Maybe try to distance your personality from Kat in most situations, and only giving up all of it in certain situations. You could also have something develop that separates her from you or causes a divide in how she acts.

How do I play a better Caldari character that isn't just another Gallente stereotype (because I have a very Gallente personality IRL)?

Honestly, on this point I think you do a good job. If all the EVE characters were stereotypical it'd be a bit boring. Kat is an open minded Caldari, and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to make her a bit more Caldari you could, but I don't really see anything wrong with how you play her now.

Also, I fail at forum fu so this might not be very helpful, but we can talk when you get home if you want. 

[Malcolm Khross]

This is a really tough situation and one that is really only resolved through practice, patience and experience.

To be honest, so long as there's a lot of yourself invested in your character, you're going to find the separation a bit more difficult. Everyone invests a little bit of themselves into their characters over time, there's really no way around that unless you make a character so completely opposite of yourself that you can't attach to them (but most people then don't enjoy the RP), but the more of yourself there is in your character the harder the OOC/IC divide becomes to maintain.

What keeps me going about the IC conflict is really just coming up with a motivation for your character that doesn't require the conflict to end, but rather just accomplish a goal within it. For example, Malcolm focuses on defense of the State's systems and anti-piracy, his goals don't require the war to end nor for pirates to be eliminated - but it gives him something to push for within the framework of a neverending conflict.

As far as the education and composition part goes, yes it's very hard to fake an education but I honestly think you're doing fine. When Katrina isn't in a bad mood, she tends to be quite clearly spoken and composed. Keep in mind that an education does not require that your character use fancy words or know a lot about everything.

[Lyn Farel]

I am currently in a similar (yet different) situation.

- Firstly I do not think that you are bad at arguing or anything like you always say. I find Kat's answers on the IGS quite composed (not speaking about the "trolling ones" mind you, but the serious ones). The I-RED PR announcements for example, were handled and answered with a good insight and a lot of wit in my opinion.

- As Mal said, you do not need to be a real expert scholar about things your character is knowlegeable about. I always say that if you want to play a mighty combat pilot that is a legend at capsuleer combat, you should definitly be good at pvp for that. In the same vein, if you play a character that is a science genius, you better be good at science. But it does not mean that you have to be a quantum nobel price either. As long as you can fake it and make it sound believable, without sounding clunky or illogical, its ok, I think. Hell, that is what I do with Lyn that is supposed to be a living library. Yet I am sure that a lot of people are a lot more knowlegeable about the lore than myself, I am pretty sure that a lot of people are more cultured than myself (I am 25 IRL, how could I be a paragon of culture ? I do not read 10 books per day). Of course, though, I still play her that way because I have the basic capacities to do it, or I hope so. After all, she may have the knowledge (even if she thinks otherwise), that does not mean that she has the wisdom going along with it. Mal ICly said something that I found pretty nice on the IGS : "You believe yourself to have achieved a higher state of learning but you have forsaken the purpose of learning." Not completely true, still, but pretty close to the true picture. My point is that even a strong feature of a character can be turned into a weakness, a flaw. Make use of that. It is even easier as a lot of us play young characters. Young people tend to be more inclined to mistakes, less composed arguments.

- For the IC/OOC separation, it is not easy, yes. I always feel a little hurt when I read some answers on the IGS from time to time, but then I think I managed to create a good automatic and unconscious reaction that makes me think after a few moments : "Hey, it is not you. It makes the character more interesting and forged through drama, imperfection, and helps to flesh her out 10 times better than a world where everyone are friends." It is not conflict that I dislike. Actually, I think I almost enjoy it for my RP. What I am afraid of, sometimes almost visceraly, is for my character to be litterally ostracized, out of that "everyone is a friend society" that we find a lot on the Summit, for example. It was not the case before, but now considering the current situation on the IGS and the Summit, I have to admit that I am worried, and it stains any RP I can make because I keep that in mind every time and it is not very healthy. I am not sure how it is for you, but I hope your problem is the first issue, and not mine (the latter), because for mine, I do not even see a way to get out of it.

- I sometimes abhor that GSF syndrome that always ends up in "everyone are friends" and eventually in a community of "best buddies" ostracizing people that do not fit in their mould. Seriphyn is a good example of it, and I have never understood why. Rodj may be another one too, considering that most people spit on his posts on the IGS. Somehow, the people that create characters that fit the most to the eve universe and are extremely different from our western RL society and social populist mindsets, are the most vulnerable to being ostracized. I may be wrong, but thats my feeling. Then of course, you have all the marie sues and special snowflakes, but they are another story, the opposite side of the mirror.

So yes in short I understand. It is always a question to find a balance between creating conflict by disagreeing with people, or even more, threatening them, without being seen as the biggest asshole of the cluster by everyone (because most of them are all friends and always agree with each other, and loyalties to friendship go before everything, especially ideals, remember ? :gsf:).

[Lyn Farel]

Forgot to add that not because you play a Caldari originated character then your character HAS to be the perfect embodiment of the Caldari culture.

[Mathra Hiede]

Hey Kat

I have gone through a similar place before - mainly the way I was RP'ing before I took my extended break from EVE

The thing I found that helped me get out of the issues I was in was to stop taking anything in EVE seriously.
And I mean literally everything, this is a game which I play to ENJOY and I get enjoyment out of interactions with people mostly, and some of the gameplay (Whole different thread required for that ) and as such I take the stress element out but just treating everything in game as a disposable toy, loose a Capital? Whoop whoop! that fight was AWESOME.
Attacked in RP? lol, challenge accepted \o/

tl:dr is that EVE is supposed to be fun, enjoyed and worth the time spent there, don't make it hard on yourself by getting so buried in the sand that you forget to look up and remember whats fun about it all, it took me nearly a years break to finally get that into my head, so hopefully it doesn't take that long for you :3 We need all the awesome peeps we can right now

[Desiderya]

• There is too much of OOC me in IC Katrina's personality. When someone attacks her, it bleeds through.
• Katrina is being played as a well educated and composed Caldari, but I am neither formally well educated nor composed. It is difficult for me to pretend to be either.
• I keep looking for happy-story escapism RP, where EVE is more about conflict RP.

#1: If you want to change this, try to give your character some flaws, edges or twists that you do not have OOCly, but that aren't as big as to alienate yourself from her. What Malcolm said is true, if you play 'against your nature' it may become too difficult and not fun to play at all, which is kind of a big deal for a main character. The Caldari stereotypes that can be flirted with might work well for this, even the liberal ones.
About attacks bleeding through: When in doubt, try to talk OOCly to the person in question. Aside from that there's nothing that helps but to try and memorize that IC attacks are not aimed at yourself as a player. I know, there are people who're not that good at the divide, or are using it to a means to an end, but I think that this is not the majority.

#2: I'm not under the impression that you fail in this department. About being composed, ie serious, all the time: This can be a struggle for the character. It might be something that not you, but Kat wants to uphold, but might fail from time to time.
Take Des, she's often far too vitriolic for her own aspirations.

#3: Happy-story-escapism is best had in private, with friends and allies. EVE is all about conflict, which has its upsides and downsides.

[Ken]

First, I've always had a good impression of Kat and think you're doing just fine.  We all reach points where things no longer work for us the way they used to or the way we want them to, and you shouldn't view that frustration or any changes you try out to relieve it as something negative. I see a lot of good advise from others in this thread already, so I won't try to compare, but if you don't like what you're doing, don't do it.

Think up a fun storyline to pursue with Kat that will give you some escapist satisfaction, arrange some things with IC antagonists, and go for it. Change up corps. Go pirate, rethink your ways, and seek redemption. Along the way there is plenty of room to mold Kat a little more closely to your own personality (VERY important if your goal is escapism so RP doesn't always feel like a chore or a challenge) and you'll have a change of scenery along the way.

[Katrina Oniseki]

These are a lot of good replies, and I don't have a reply for all of them thought up yet. I'm kinda soaking it all up right now. I have to go to work, otherwise I'd give a proper reply right now, but thank you all for the posts. So far you've all been really helpful.

[Kybernetes Moros]

"There is too much of OOC me in IC Katrina's personality. When someone attacks her, it bleeds through."
Of the two characters I've "seriously" played in EVE -- Kyber and Renaud -- both caricature separate parts of my personality; they take them and run with them to extremes. Kyber takes my interest in physics and tendency to lose patience with politics, whereas Renaud mostly got my tendency to be what someone once so elegantly described as, er, "a vapid prettyboy". I think part of it arose from the same idea Malcolm touched upon: I wanted characters that were different enough to interest me, but close enough to remain relatable.

Some people prefer to keep no elements of their real personality in characters, but I've found to use a very small cross section useful; it lets me play them with greater confidence that they're behaving realistically, but more relevantly, it means I don't particularly get upset OOC if somebody attacks them. The qualities used are ones that can cause people to get wound up, and hey, who cares? I've turned them up to 11 in both characters. Rather than putting large sections of "true-to-life" OOC personality in, perhaps just toying with small elements of your personality would work? I'm not sure of the details, but I found it to work well (and EVE is the first and only place I've RPed).

Katrina is being played as a well educated and composed Caldari, but I am neither formally well educated nor composed. It is difficult for me to pretend to be either.
I see a couple of ways that this could be fixed. The first would be to not worry if sometimes the façade slips; Kat(c) is only human, and who can blame her if she's not constantly the image of composure?

A second would be to not play her like that anymore; a particular catalyst may drive her personality to move slightly away from that, for instance -- Ken had some good ideas on that front.

I keep looking for happy-story escapism RP, where EVE is more about conflict RP.
You can have both. The former works much better in private settings (e.g. that housewarming doodad a while ago: those there were as diverse as it gets, politically, but it was a pretty calm social event). The latter is a great change of pace with people outside those circles that you still enjoy RPing with, I found.

Katrina both as a character and me as a player may suffer from several of these issues: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html
The best characters have flaws. A few of those in Katrina shouldn't hurt too much, and if anything can provide a bit of RP in getting around them if you feel so inclined.

---

I'm not sure how helpful this was and how much of it was just a rephrasing of previous posters' comments, but I enjoyed RPing with Katrina when I was in game, so hopefully it's of some utility.

[Silas Vitalia]

Oniseki will eventually accept her own desire for personal empowerment and self-actualization.

The first step is the most difficult, Oniseki. We'll be waiting with open arms when you embrace your destiny 

Heehee.

I think you are doing just fine.  IRED is doing their own thing independent of the 'main' plot and should be commended.

The most fun stories you will have are the ones you create, don't forget.

[Mitara Newelle]

My quick $0.02:

• There is too much of OOC me in IC Katrina's personality. When someone attacks her, it bleeds through.

Remember it's just a toon in a bizarre setting, it's not you, and most people probably wouldn't react to you the same way IRL(well, maybe :p)

• Katrina is being played as a well educated and composed Caldari, but I am neither formally well educated nor composed. It is difficult for me to pretend to be either.

Here's where I find the lag of our communication in Eve to help out a bit, spend a bit of time to really think about how Katrina would phrase something, or do a quick Google thesaurus search if needed.  This has helped me with Mitty anway, ymmv.

• I keep looking for happy-story escapism RP, where EVE is more about conflict RP.

As others have said, this is best done in a more private setting, Summit isn't going to help you here most likely.

• Katrina both as a character and me as a player may suffer from several of these issues: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

Is that so bad? I say run with it

I've enjoyed Mitty's interactions with Katrina, Mitty appreciates that Katrina has demonstrated at least some knowledge and interest in proper Amarrian culture, which Mitty sees as Katrina trying to better herself by trying to learn the *right* way to live

[Nmaro Makari]

If you want my honest unadulterated opinion (dont worry, not dropping a bomb) I think Kat's become less serious and fall too much into quasi-bittervet syndrome.

If you'e worried your char has a style you cant do, practice, if you consider channel RP to be that important. Or :insertlifechangingevent: if its really unbearble. Or dont channel RP.

Maybe give the IGS a wide berth, its an unhealthy place.

Most importantly, and on a more general note, don't look for drama, stick with I-RED and remember that RP is only meaningful when it comes from doing stuff in space

[Gottii]

Gottii, IC, uses the IGS, in a couple of ways.

1.)  Find people to shoot/enemies of the Minmatar/people to set red.  Always important for a NRDS pvp pilot.  ("ok, dude claims to own slaves, i'll keep an eye on him in local)

2.) general lay of the capsuleer land ( "whos that guy?"  "which new space lesbian is this?" etc)

3.) say things the he feels needs to be said, even if he would rather not and finds it tedious, but a duty to do so  ( ex:  keeping some Minmatar from getting too close with the Caldari enemy, speaking up (or presuming to anyway) for slaves in the Empire, etc)

Thats about it.  Its not a place to make friends really.  Generally, its a place to find enemies.

Also, keep in mind, if you play your character the right way in EVE, someone will think of him or her as the "bad guy".  Thats great.  Means youre doing it the right way, and in a realistic manner. 

I have far more OOC regard for some of Gottiis IC enemies than I do for many of the characters who would rather be Gottiis IC friends.   Ive pressed F1 on some of the players I think the most of.  Same thing with confronting them/arguing with them on the IGS/in game.  Thats whats EVE's about.   

[Ava Starfire]

Kat, im in a really similar boat. A lot of Amanda bleeds into Ava, and it makes it difficult for me to maintain IC/OOC seperation at times. It dosent help that, like me, Ava isnt particularly bright, and that she cant participate in 75% or so of RP that happens in public channels simply because she (and I) dont understand whats even going on. When I feel myself getting upset, I usually just try to step away for a while. Parts of Ava are very "not" Amanda, so I try to focus on those a bit more, so responses wont seem so personal.

Im drifting into sarcastic bittervet/rage about RP territory too. After the last dogpile on Ava on IGS by my own alliance mates, Im debating just saying fuck RP in general. I RP with Kala and Tabor, and ocassionally Esna, Rin, and Aldrith outside of the Summit. That's it. I have a Minmatar toon that only two minmatar players seem to want to talk to or have anything to do with. It sucks. I'm with you here, and hey, if you wanna RP, im here. Best I Can offer with regards to that I guess.

Short answer? Find  a group of people you like and stick with them. Im about to say the hell with "IC reasons" and just start playing with whoever I want, as maintaining that IC/OOC divide hasnt done any good anyway. Great. Ava sticks to her guns. And Amanda plays a RP character with no one to RP with.

Unless the RP community in EVE gets a little more open and willing to interract with each other (As friends, enemies, whatever) I dont see it lasting long.