Took me over 3 hours to piece together this response, I really hope it clears up any and all issues present.
Haven't been around for long, so I can't have a full view of it, but as far as I've seen, this forum is actually pretty well moderated. After almost a month around, only one post has been sent to the catacombs, and it's unsurprising that it did. I don't see the point here. It's not like we were back in Chatsubo or something... 
Your not the only one who don't get the point. Clearly my communication skills are so fucking horrible I'll have to be completely dead-pan and direct to get my point across, so if that's what it takes, that's what will happen. Please allow me to try again.
I've left bold and italic lines in the below post to try and fully underline my meaning. Should ofc have done so to begin with, I am seriously wondering if I will have to do so all the time to get my meaning across without all the fuss and crap it generates at times.
Decided to dump this in this tread instead of making a new one as my point here will involve the events chronicled in this tread anyhow.
So, regarding Isis' tread that was finally locked:
Hi. I'm on vacation in Yellowstone this week, and am at my computer maybe 2 hours out of the entire day (literally, 15 minutes after breakfast before going out and getting on the snowmobiles, and an hour and a half before/after dinner or before bed). I was hoping not to have to step in and deal with this kind of utter bullshit while I was out, but I guess I forgot that Silver has a job and tends not to get opportunities to check the forum during the day.
I hope you enjoy your vacation. When you are done, you can deal with this - if you bother, simply an opinion and a statement.
I feel no ill-will for you personally and hope your vacation goes great. When you are finished, then you can deal with this - because if you deal with it now it may possibly sour your mood nedlessly. It's meant to be a simple statement and my opinion. No more, no less.
The thread would've been locked ages ago otherwise, and as it stands I'm going to be strongly suggesting that a number of people who contributed to the problem instead of reporting posts/the thread and not posting be given formal warnings and/or short-term bans in the cases of people who have already had their warnings for this crap.
Personally, I would not mind a consequence for my actions under normal situations. But if it's coming from you, it feels very unfair. YOU will strongly suggest that a number of people get formal warnings or temp-bans for choosing entertainment at the cost of a fellow member instead of sticking to forum regulations? Again, if that was from practically any other mod, that would be fine. But not you. You see Morwen...
If I get modded for anything, that's okay with me. I expect to be treated in accordance with the rules and do not mind this happening. However I get the personal, physical feeling that moderation action from Morwen specifically, in the service as a mod, is unjustified. The moderation action in the tread these quotes are taken from is not a problem, the whole tread they were from is irrelevant to my point.
Pretty much everyone who's posted in this thread should know better.
...you should know better as well. As far as I'm concerned you blatantly and deliberately violated the very rules you are supposedly a mod for - in this very tread - in order to 'make a point' or whatever. Silver read this over and, as a fellow mod, practically brushed your offense under the rug. At that point I just said 'fuck it, can't be bothered' to myself and left the issue be. However, I find myself unable to NOT post this post in regards to your most recent ruling.
That is because, if you are the one to render judgment in this regard, then I would like to demand you too be judged by the same regulations that you uphold. Let Silver or any other mod deal out warnings and/or bans. You don't have the right to.
Morwen is a moderator. Moderators uphold the rules. Moderators are expected to be better than violating those. Accidents happen and are dealt with. Morwen however deliberately broke the rules he enforces as a mod. I would expect this to be dealt with as well.
Silver Night, another mod, read this over and practically ignored it. This led to me feeling betrayed by the system because apparently I was to mind the rules and could expect to be modded if I stepped over them, but a mod who broke the rules deliberately got no reaction of note.
When this happened I decided to leave the matter alone for the time being. The original topic in this tread had been dealt with and while Morwen received no reaction for his actions I knew that eventually, some day, a situation might arise that prompted dealing with this again.
This has now happened. A whole tread that no-one should have bothered to respond to was finally (and justifiably) cata'ed and the fact the mod was Morwen made me feel wrong - in regards to the issue at hand here. I am now brining this up. I don't feel that Morwen has a right to mod others for a set of rules he can apparently violate at will. As far as I know there is only this one example of this, but it seems this is enough that I don't feel like I can just let this topic slide.
In short: The tread I got the quotes from has absolutely nothing to do with my point and this topic. This tread is now SOLELY about my impression about the moderation on these boards and apparent leniency in reaction towards a mod breaking the rules he mods others for. There is only one example of this so far however and it's in this tread.
I would like to point out that I have absolutely zero issues with being moderated, as it stands. If I get moderated, I can go review both the rules and my modded material and see the reasons for myself. I feel moderation here is quite fair and balanced... excepting this one deviation from the norm. Once this has been cleared up there will be no issues about moderation on Backstage for me.
@ Vikarion:
You missed my point. In fact, you 4-arrogant-paragraphs missed it.
I am NOT whining; I am complaining, at worst. Do you want to hear whining? This is whining: The mods are so unfair! I get modded all the time but you never see any mods get the hammer! Morwen modded me and then he broke the rules and then Silver didn't even punish him, that's soooo unfaaaaair - and so on.
I am not whining. I am raising a complaint about the one deviation I have seen from a perfectly fair moderation team and I'd like this cleared up. That is all.
@ Morwen
It seems you also missed my point, your post indicates this, especially the fact you think Vikarion explained it. Hopefully this will be a bit cleared above by now. I wouldn't know, I can't tell if my 'clarification' even makes things easier, as I keep failing in basic language skills.
I am not however, terribly amused by the fact you seem to think a 'deal with it' attitude is appropriate. I do however find it grimly amusing that I am in fact, 'dealing with it' by making this very post in this very tread that is now about an issue I have with the moderation team.
@ Gyra Rho
I may not be alone in your definition of 'those that bitch the most about biased moderation' but it seems in this case it was aimed specifically at me. I would like to point out that this tread is the first time I see an issue with the moderation team at all, and this is thus also the first time I bring this up. I am not 'bitching' about moderation, fair or no, I am bringing forth a complaint, and clearing up a misunderstanding that I am partially responsible for.
@ Kathrina Oniseki
Is this really needed Kat? Telling everyone to take any kind of deviation from expected mod behavior with a smile, or make a 'no rules' board for ourself? Is there no room for pointing out what we think are problems without being told to HTFU or GTFO?
@ Silver Night
I can understand that you and Morwen has jobs and lives to lead. I do too. As stated the locked topic that I lifted the quotes from has nothing to do really with this issue and neither is the the speed at replying to it. That's really all there is for me to say about that part.
If you have a problem with a mod, this is the right place to bring it up. That being said, using every time you get modded to try and dig up this same thread - where the circumstances have already been explained to you - is not appropriate. Saying 'You did this thing that I think was against the rules once, so I'm going to start shit every time you mod' is not appropriate.
I don't 'use every time I get modded' to try to dig up this tread - this is the FIRST time it has ever happened, and it is also the ONLY time it needs to be done. I have not stated anywhere or in any form that I will start this up every time Morwen happen to mod me, I stated that Morwen's authority as a mod is undermined, IN MY OPINION, because of the events of this tread. No, starting shit every time he opens his mouth to mod anything I'm involved with is not appropriate at all, thus why it has not happened and never will.
If you think the mod team here is biased against you and they don't 'have the right' to mod you, don't post. If you post, you are subject to the mod team - and being subject to being moderated in general isn't something that's up for discussion (distinct, mind you, from discussion of specific instances of moderation - the way this thread started out.)
I don't feel that the mod team is biased at all, least of all 'against' me. That has not been my concern at all either. I feel the mod team does a great job, minus this one time in this tread. As a poster I am indeed subject to the mod team and don't get to discuss that. That's fine. that's fair. And I'm not.
Discussing moderation, is indeed distinct from the first and second points of this tread. When I made this tread, it was to gain clarification for exactly WHY a post of mine was in need of modding. It was not to argue against the modding itself, I trusted and still trust moderation to be fair. When the clarification was made however, Morwen saw fit to break a rule he himself had modded me for. That did not seem fair at all and that's how the second point of this tread came to be, and that is still where we are now, this is merely a re-start of it.
Disagreeing with Morwen, and then disagreeing with my assessment of Morwen's conduct doesn't make you right.
I am not looking to be 'right'. You and Morwen are both mods. I did not, and have not, EVER disagree with Morwen or yourself in regards to what should and should not be moderated. I am not looking to be 'right' and have any kind of mod-action revoked. I am looking to figure out how Morwen's action was okay when me doing the same was not.
It doesn't make me right either, but the issue has been addressed and the decision has been made. And while there have been mod decisions I was on the fence about int he past, this wasn't really one of them (the original situation that spawned this thread, or the new one). Also, if i wanted to 'brush under the rug' the way Morwen posted, it would be gone or edited. Instead we explained why. Again - disagreeing with your assessment of Morwen's post isn't brushing it under the rug. It's disagreeing.
You addressed the issue and you made your decision. Your decision, as well as Morwen's, regarding the original "Diplomatic return of Caldari Prime" tread was completely correct and on the spot. I do not refute this, nor do I refute the locking of Isis's tread, what I have issue with and what I feel you brush under a rug, is how Morwen responded to a tread asking for clarification regarding a locked tread.
NOTE: I will fully admit that people tend to misunderstand what I mean. This is mostly my own fault. But this issue, at it's core, was that a mod responded with condensating arrogance to a request for clarity. Quotes below.
Entirely self-explanatory. Urdoinitrong is not acceptable here. If you can't post without it at least looking like you tried to avoid urdoinitrong, don't post at all. To others: if you think a thread is in poor form, report it instead of responding to it.
"Entirely self-explanatory."
No not really, because I'm apparently to dumb to see how this is correct, and as such I don't get it.
An explanation, prefferably with some details, would be nice, Morwen.
In the meantime, let's sugar-coat it with some absolute neutrality in tone. Let's try again.
I figured we were all adults here, and that everyone was capable of reviewing the rules themselves given the hint I gave without the need for me to hold their hands and read the rules to them like a bedtime story. Apparently not.
It was entirely self-explanatory...
The only reaction to this action from a different mod that I can find it from you, Silver:
Morwen was a bit more aggressive than I might have been, but given the circumstances, not inappropriately so I think.
And that's all there really was to it - I made a tread, people responded, Morwen responded, there was a series of posts arguing, you came along and declared that Morwen's reply was not 'inappropriately aggressive given the circumstances'.
The entire tread about this issue can be read here on page 1 and 2.
I'm still feeling iffy about the idea that a mod can do this:
Was my first response aggressive? Sure. Not going to deny that. But it was also intentional. The aggression (and resulting hypocrisy) was the point, because it's how your original topic came across. It's also why I wrote a second, more calm post later on.
Wait a second, you were intentionally aggressive with me because I had originally been aggressive and got my first post cata'ed? How is that supposed to help at all? Why did you even need to do the very thing I got modded for in the first place? Could you not have simply omited that part of your post and left the constructive bits be?
And it's not considered bad enough to be 'inappropriately aggressive given the circumstances'. As you wish.
You are the admin. You pay for the site, and I appreciate that. I make use of and enjoy myself on these boards, after all.
In closing, I'd like to state that I'm not trying to get anyone on my 'side' - I am not making camps here - I'm trying to make sense of your choice, obviously this is because I'm biased, (to my own viewpoint, ofc) but also because I can't see how you reached your conclusion regarding this issue.
You have no compelling reason - besides my sense of clarity on the topic - to tell me, but I'd like to know your reasoning for reaching your conclusion in this manner.
And that's it. That should clarify my problem in a satisfactory manner. I've spent a great deal of time going over this and if it's still not good enough, my skills are simply insufficient to get my message across.
Now, gonna do something else and get my mind of things for a bit...
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Topic: Re: The diplomatic return of Caldari Prime (Read 9911 times)