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Author Topic: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"  (Read 1235 times)

kalaratiri

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #30 on: 02 Sep 2017, 12:19 »


Because there doesn't seem to be a place for characters that aren't out there actively doing something, and out there actively doing something most of the time means shooting at people, scanning down stuff to shoot at or to be shot at, or mining. Industrials, scientists and people who generally don't wish to engage in destruction for their own reasons are derided for being useless and their opinions worth nothing. So it feels like the only acceptable type of character to play is someone who actively wants to kill other people, for whatever reason, just as long as they want to kill.

I would strongly disagree with this. ARC and SFRIM immediately spring to mind as science and industrial/pve heavy RP groups, and I personally have more respect for them than I do for many pvp groups. Their RP (at least publicly) is strong, interesting, and progresses character, all without any real form of pvp orientation.
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Teinyhr

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #31 on: 02 Sep 2017, 13:19 »

I would strongly disagree with this. ARC and SFRIM immediately spring to mind as science and industrial/pve heavy RP groups, and I personally have more respect for them than I do for many pvp groups. Their RP (at least publicly) is strong, interesting, and progresses character, all without any real form of pvp orientation.

It's fine if you disagree, as I said that is my personal view and I acknowledged I might be biased. I don't really know anything about either of those groups really, other than that I recognize them, so can't really say anything else.
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Ashley

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #32 on: 02 Sep 2017, 13:27 »

I don't like to bring Nauplius up, but consider this:
A Sani Sabik ritual summoning temple, the goal is to sacrifice people, to the red god, in order to do something.
There's the logistics involved in collecting the sacrifices, building the temple, and keeping it in operation long enough.
Now, if the Imperial Navy found out about it, then, they'd send a task force to eliminate it. Or hire a mercenary force to eliminate it. (This is actually the plot of the 'Ritualist Raids' level4 mission).
So, it is in the sani sabik's interest to keep things as quiet as possible, to allow the ritual to complete.

Announcing that the temple is being built in a specific place and will be completed on Saturday, kind of goes against the whole objective of the exercise. It's saturday morning cartoon villain style.

:|
It seems kida malevolent in forcing your opponents be the one holding the dagger and making the sacrifices. Igniting fire methodically untill it slowly devours everything leaving only the beast inside, very sani-sabik imo.
;P
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Gesakaarin

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #33 on: 02 Sep 2017, 18:30 »

The October expansion is going to have the Resource Wars for supporting factions through high-sec industrial and pve.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #34 on: 03 Sep 2017, 02:07 »

So maybe give someone who provides stuff some leeway when it comes to immersion and if you really can't stomach it, just don't interact.

I'm already doing that. I have no problem with Nauplius's stuff, and have interacted with it in the past. He's just the most high-profile person who everyone will have heard about, who announces stuff before it's complete, which allows others the opportunity to blow it all up.

Complicated by the people who scream "you're just giving him attention which he wants", and yet those same people would scream "by ignoring him you're complicit in his crimes". Which kind of saps the enjoyment of interacting with things.



Quote
I mean, we're surviving reading your 'I'm just a dumb blonde space nun' shtick without bringing out the torches either.
:ugh:
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2017, 02:16 by Louella Dougans »
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #35 on: 03 Sep 2017, 02:14 »

Meanwhile, people are still arguing, using the existence of 10+ year old missions as evidence.

"but what about the amarr navy slave raids"
"but what about the minmatar bioweapon attacks"
"but what about the gallente illegal settlements"
"but what about the caldari building military installations on the monuments to the 1st caldari-gallente war"

and so on.

Used as evidence against anyone and everyone who doesn't fit a particular mould.

"SFRIM are good people"
"but what about the navy slave raids ?"

"electus matari are honorable people"
"But what about the minmatar virus bombings ?"

and so on.

vOv
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The Rook

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #36 on: 03 Sep 2017, 04:51 »

It's almost like this game is deliberately written in a way that all factions have virtues and vices. Yes, this is a problem, along the inevitable slavery discussions. "My Faction is The Best" is legit in character but can be tedious when it crosses into OOC. This ties in with the general endeavour to win RP through all means necessary.
Just look at the Nauplius example: You offend people by not helping, you offend people by helping, you offend people by helping along the wrong people. Somewhere down that line people stop caring about this sorta thing and just mind their own business, because what happens in public is the shouting match to determine who is the most virtuous of all the choir boys.
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Utari Onzo

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #37 on: 03 Sep 2017, 05:40 »

I'd like to remind everyone to take their time before replying and cut the heat from the debate. Valid view points are perfectly fine, getting into shouting matches that potentially end up in ad hominem is not.

Anyhoot I've scaled back on the RP because of a lack of any interesting inter factional RP outside "RABBLE" "SLAVAH" in local in fac war, or the usual wordy pissing matches on the IGS, less so other people's RP. I think we can chill on the bitter vetty "doing it wrong" vibes I'm getting from a few of these posts.
« Last Edit: 03 Sep 2017, 05:48 by Utari Onzo »
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Ioannis_Sepphiros

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #38 on: 03 Sep 2017, 08:34 »

Meanwhile, people are still arguing, using the existence of 10+ year old missions as evidence.

"but what about the amarr navy slave raids"
"but what about the minmatar bioweapon attacks"
"but what about the gallente illegal settlements"
"but what about the caldari building military installations on the monuments to the 1st caldari-gallente war"

and so on.

Used as evidence against anyone and everyone who doesn't fit a particular mould.

"SFRIM are good people"
"but what about the navy slave raids ?"

"electus matari are honorable people"
"But what about the minmatar virus bombings ?"

and so on.

vOv


As a new face what you just described is what made me mighty motivated into joining the RP side of things. Personally in a way its also how I could ever find interest in a narrative that is commercial driven(stereotyping of bad commercial narratives to attract masses exist for a reason after all). EvE demonstrates a truth about politics; the biggest enemy doesn't lie in the person who opposes you at face value..but at the person who is driven for own purposes and narratives and resides over the same camp with you.

Going to the point raised of all those respectable capsuleer organisations doesn't absolve them from the indeed true narrative of the failings of whom they side with. Loyalist political narrative will do that. It should do that; and in addition it also adds to the mix and inspirations of it.

Maybe its just me being new to all this, but there are plenty of mediums and possibilities of moving the story forward be it through the chat box or be it through actual combat. I like the fact for example that the FW is strict in a way, because it would be mighty interesting had I went down that path to see how Sepphiros would treat those who are zealots but at his same side, philosophical ponderings of how much the enemy is the beast or are we? Would Sepphiros turn into a zealot or not? Add a bit of twists and spices each faction has and that is wonderful in a way. Add a bit of how each uniquely views and adds t the wonderful thing called video gaming and things are looking up already for much better.

Nauplius or no Nauplius, pendulum swings either in FW or null, glorified chatboxes or not, the way I think EvE is beautiful is because it doesnt matter what the others are doing per RP goes. What matters per RP goes is what you make of all that towards your character and of course how much you want to become part of a narrative. If some find it cool not to interact with Nauplius and not help then that should be a medium for new thinking to come at play, alternatively the same as well and how each thing adds to your character.

It shouldnt be too much about my opinion is better/superior/inferior/patronizing than yours; but I feel it should be about how a character acts through all these first personally, then to its immediate circle and then publicly. For example Nauplius for Sepphiros(and this is OOC knowledge to be considered) is viewed as an example of weak Amarr capsuleer politics at display. One capsuleer wreaking havoc to the Amarr scene where the latter looks like it lacks an initiative against him. I am aware that one cant actualy make a character(not the player I mention here, I actually find the dude/girl behind Nauplius pretty cool, hope we have OOC drinks one day) completely shut off. I am also aware that Nauplius is used as internal RP for the SFRIM and maybe PIE narrative. Whatever the case may be though, publicly there have been instances where the morale has been broken for someone. Think of past characters whose old posts are still readable in the forums and old corporations who were broken. So in fact publicly, per IC concerned the likes of Nauplius( i hate personally to pinpoint the said name so please insert anything you may want, I just draw inspiration from the flow of discussion) can be broken, its just that if it could be but isnt then there is a reason.

Which leads me to another important element; content creation.

The premise of a sandbox to work is based on the energy levels of reactionary forces of one butterfly to another and other elements within the sandbox. EvE being always a game, I feel commercialy is a rather niche one. Which also should be viewed as an important element not only in RP but also at the game level as well. Its partially why I have a negative feel about nullsec and the philosophy behind it; at least the public one thats been portrayed at me as a new face. A premise of a well filled sandbox for being succesfull means that numbers will carry out probability of actions, thus generate content which will exponentially generate content.

In current EvE status I believe that the sandbox dwellers should add a modus operati of having preservation of the sandbox in their game mechanic as well. Think of it as becoming and acting ecologically active towards our sandbox.
 A super powerful 10 year character/corporation pummeling a weaker side at face value, within a normal sandbox environment would be ok. Because equal numbers and a fair game operation equal also same number of competition in a way.
Here is where it gets even more interesting though; RP is a sandboxception; i.e a sandbox within a sandbox. Which begs questions like 'Should the RPers care more for their RP sandbox than the whole of the rest sandbox? For me it shouldnt but there has to be a balance of in the end acknowledging that its a survival thing as well. Just as non RPers who just like to collect tears are teaming up together to do so, just so we need as RPers protect one other as well however we can and I think its best to begin with one another.

Does that mean that we should all treat each other as special snowflakes and refrain from content creating and conflict that EvE lore is so much based upon? Personally no, I dont think so either. What it means though is that perhaps the RP sandbox should come up with ways of strengthening the content and thus gameplay, but most importantly do so intentionaly. Corporation/person of year X with enough weight to cause a broken nose or two to sandbox dwellers of equal weight, should in my honest opinion demonstrate but not act that it could break a number of smaller entities. Give them something to despise and something  to live up. Most importantly, motivate by competition of other said corporation/person of equal or near equal weight to act as a detterent. In short, do things for the ride and the journey which will make everyone ideally meet halfway there providing a medium where fun interacting stories generated by all means(chat box, podkilling, scheming, economy whatever, all of it) and for the good of everyone staying in and relogging.

One of the greatest commercial narratives in the world (Star Wars I have in mind) acts in such a way. The rule of two is a self preservading system to always antagonize good, not merely destroy it as it could have by first antagonising itself, understanding the benefits of renewal power( also the good side has a version of it and there is more to the rule of two but I woudlnt like to turn this into a star wars thread...).

By the latest statement who is good and who is bad at EvE universe is frankly something that one shouldnt ponder; because it doesnt exist and it looks to me it wasnt built that way so why keep going to that argument? Good is the side we are at EvE at any given time. But there is a common enemy, and its not the one across; it should be the one who threatens to break the sandbox. And if you come to think about it....in a way...Lore has also demonstrated that(not only) with the Jove versus the Empire when the latter threatened to break New Eden.

----out of thread final comment----

I am a new face, what I have said are my opinions as to what I see as the author mentioned new faces as well. My style at this so far is about meeting as many of you fellow gamers as I can, and mostly I hear what is called bittervets. But the power of how great video games are, especialy powerful ones as EvE, stand with us, as Mizhara has partially touched upon it as well. Be it through chat box, or fighting or economy game or whatever and however everyone feels like enjoying one's self I believe in a way the responsibility of how good this will go is on the community itself. So what can be done is something that each should question in one's self.

I would be glad to keep meeting more of you along the following days both OOC and IC, whichever way you prefer . I am, as those who have already met me always open at OOC interactions keeping far away from IC conflicts and all that aside; I hope if there is any way to help the community and I can do it, I ll try my best and act upon it. Sorry for too long thread
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Teinyhr

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #39 on: 03 Sep 2017, 09:30 »

That is a Grade A post Ioannis_Sepphiros. Well said.
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Ashley

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #40 on: 03 Sep 2017, 11:59 »

Meanwhile, people are still arguing, using the existence of 10+ year old missions as evidence.

"but what about the amarr navy slave raids"
"but what about the minmatar bioweapon attacks"
"but what about the gallente illegal settlements"
"but what about the caldari building military installations on the monuments to the 1st caldari-gallente war"

and so on.

Used as evidence against anyone and everyone who doesn't fit a particular mould.

"SFRIM are good people"
"but what about the navy slave raids ?"

"electus matari are honorable people"
"But what about the minmatar virus bombings ?"

and so on.

vOv
What's so bad in that or what you would like to see people argue about instead?
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Syagrius

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #41 on: 03 Sep 2017, 13:32 »

That is a Grade A post Ioannis_Sepphiros. Well said.
Agreed.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #42 on: 03 Sep 2017, 15:04 »

Meanwhile, people are still arguing, using the existence of 10+ year old missions as evidence.
"but what about the amarr navy slave raids"
What's so bad in that or what you would like to see people argue about instead?

The same arguments, used by largely the same characters, across three iterations of the intergalactic summit, over ten years.
It never changes. There's never anything new or different. No new perspectives. No new opinions.
The same thread, made a thousand times.

what would I like to see ? something fresh maybe ? is that so much to ask ?
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Mizhara

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #43 on: 03 Sep 2017, 16:04 »

When it is the biggest point of contention between the factions, and it makes absolutely no sense for loyalists of either side to pretend it isn't, and CCP does exactly fuck all to bring any kind of resolution to the issues... the issues will be brought up.

It's be absolutely ridiculous if they weren't. Characterbreakingly ridiculous.

Get rid of the elephant that takes up all the space in the room, and no one will have to point it out anymore.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #44 on: 04 Sep 2017, 13:06 »

so why are those handful of missions the only ones people consider it acceptable to bring up as 1000% IC occurrences ?

People don't mention having done The Blockade 10 times a day. Or the Damsel in Distress. But suddenly, there's 2 missions involving a strike force that's going to drop virus bombs on a planet, and ooooo, it's proof of government-backed official policy.

Argument runs:
1. The NPCs appear as Navy ships, therefore they are Navy ships.
2. Shooting them, they have Navy tags in loot, which reinforces point 1.
3. They might be rogue units, in which case enemy Government has no control over rogue elements. Shame on enemy Government, proof that enemy Government are incompetent and/or evil.
4. But then, having shot them incurs a standing penalty. Which means they are there officially after all. Which is therefore proof that enemy Government is violating interstellar treaties and all that, and is conclusive proof that enemy Government are evil.


Except.... you can go take a mission from the L4 Republic Security Services agent in Madirmilire system in Domain region, and he'll send you to attack some Amarr Navy ships that are abducting Minmatar people from.... Amarr planets, in Amarr space.  :ugh:

Or, the L4 agent for Joint Harvesting (an Amarr corporation) in Stirht system in Metropolis region, who'll give you missions to stop the Republic Fleet from virus-bombing inhabited planets.... Minmatar inhabited planets, in Minmatar space.  :ugh:


Taking these missions at 100% face value, isn't ridiculous ? isn't character-breakingly ridiculous ?
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