Backstage - OOC Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Did you know:

the 25ers were a political activist organization that fought for repealing starship licensing fees, laying the foundations for the independent capsuleer community.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Author Topic: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"  (Read 1234 times)

Lasairiona

  • Red
  • Omelette
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #15 on: 31 Aug 2017, 07:38 »

I remember a lot of the early RP (I started in 2010). It was cool. There was a lot of content.

Yeah, I admit, I do treat Eve like a glorified chat client, but lately, I've been moving Lasa around. She's doing missions again, and it's kinda fun. I still like throwing the events at L'Amore and I'm kinda sure people enjoy them? I've not heard otherwise.

I mean, hell, people complain about chars like Nauplius, but let's be honest...he makes content. And he undocks to fight PIE or SFRIM or whomever is after him.

We can bitch all we want, but...it is our fault for not taking some things to the greater RP community. But there's the fact I don't really want to take things to the greater eve community cause sometimes, RPers are not very tolerant of these "new" ideas.

I dunno...I'm rambling now.  :cube: I love you all!
Logged

Ché Biko

  • Space Buddho-Commu-Nihilist
  • Veteran
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1084
  • I'll face the stars or the abyss.
    • Biko's Backstage Character Thread
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #16 on: 31 Aug 2017, 08:06 »

I don't agree with us not having an effect on the story (although it could be better, yeah), or that all RP people are not sticking out toes. Personally, I've seen (not heard about) more RP conflict with actual PVP in the past year than in all the years I've been playing before that, but I admit a lot of that is pretty much coincidence.

Miz, I'm not sure what kind of RP you were expecting to get from that RP conflict. In my case, with my char being sort of a pacifist and sort of on good terms with Fitz and co., it should come as no surprise that he would be critical of your attack. If it makes you feel better, me and some others did get some nice RP out of that, even a little inside ALXVP. You just didn't see it.

As a wormhole resident, without sharing sensitive information, I can only say this about our fortress' vulnerability with most of my precious stuff in it: I expect to lose it all some day, and part of my char will die fighting in the process.
« Last Edit: 31 Aug 2017, 08:09 by Ché Biko »
Logged
-OOChé

Syagrius

  • Egger
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
    • Memoirs of a Madman.
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #17 on: 31 Aug 2017, 17:47 »

I think many of us retreated into our niche channels and cliques in an effort to reduce conflict and drama. Personally, I like my RP to be constructive or at least not overtly disruptive.  But we forget that that same conflict and drama does tend to engage people.  I remember when dealing with ILF we had great fun being enemies.  We controlled our overtly destructive capacities to promote RP.  While I understand and agree with the premise that we should not do what our characters would not do.  I think we need to balance that with the willingness to explore other options. So when you see me speaking at the Summit, for example, don't faint.
Logged

Louella Dougans

  • \o/
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2156
  • \o/
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #18 on: 01 Sep 2017, 14:43 »

saying roleplayers are risk-averse is a bit disingenuous, imo.

because... the fundamental problem is that, if someone is competent, the only way they can lose is if they want to.

ISK, ships, modules, provided by unrelated out-of-corp characters, doing trading in Jita, manufacturing, or a host of other things. That's what competent individuals do. Hide the squishy money-making activities, and only present the hard combat persona, on your terms, not the opponents.

Take for example, the hypothetical mining&manufacturing rp corporation. Now, mining ships are easy targets. So, a different rp corporation goes to war with them. If the mining corp was competent, their money-making activities would be in a different corporation, unknown to the aggressors.

So, if you see their mining ships then... either they're not very competent, or they're losing to you because they want to. Which... kind of spoils the enjoyment of the activity. Where's the feeling of achievement, if there's no real challenge, or the victory is handed to you ?

It's like that guy out of Watchmen. Announcing his plan after it could no longer be stopped. That's what capsuleers who were competent would do. Present things as a fait accompli.

Logged
\o/

Mizhara

  • Prophet of New Eden
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2258
  • The Truth will make ye Fret.
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #19 on: 01 Sep 2017, 16:21 »

Lou:

What you're describing is the very peak of risk aversion. And wrong to boot. Competency does not mean 'hiding' things. It means risking things in acceptable risk/reward ratios. Let me take my personal situation as an example: I have at time of writing six subbed accounts, roughly divided into two combat focused characters and the rest industrial focused. Cyno alts obviously litter the spare charslots, but don't count for much anyway. My combat characters are obviously in combat entities and are constantly at risk whenever they undock, and between those two alone they can put out roughly 65-70b worth of assets in harms way at any given moment. In reality, this number goes down to closer to 40b at most, since I frankly hate multiboxing and there's no point playing a client I can't focus on, to me. My industrialists? All in corporations directly attached to my known characters, or current corp/alliance. Wardecced on a regular basis. Using player infrastructure for all industrial purposes and seeing flashy red shit on the overview almost every time they undock and do things. Which they do, on a regular basis.

Would this to you be "incompetent"? The 'squishy money-making' I do requires a lot of competence, patience, taking a lot of risks and so on. I regularly put roughly 10b worth of hauler out there for people to shoot at. And here's the thing: A lot of people do the exact same things. Competence doesn't mean hiding your alt in Jita and never undocking. Competence means taking acceptable risks.

What I'm referring to as risk-averse isn't carebearing or industrial activity. It's about not being willing to put anything at stake, in order to allow conflict to have some actual in-game representation beyond "no u" in a chat channel. It's about not being willing to ever run the risk of having to lose. Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter. My characters can simply scoff when mouths are running in one direction and someone's feet are going the other way. It's just not very healthy for the RP in general, as it'll lead to stagnation of both characters and the setting.

Che:

Oh I wasn't expecting all that much RP out of it as such. You and Ushra'Khan responding with hostility was great stuff, to be perfectly honest. I'd hoped for more actual fighting over it, but that people were hostile to it was excellent. I'm referring to the enormous reams of mails and chatlogs that were entirely OOC. I am apparently a rather horrible human being in real life, a cyber bully, apparently it's trolling roleplayers if you engage them in PvP, and so on and so forth. What I'm questioning here is what kind of RP can we expect in this game if playing it is met with that kind of response?

Conflict is ingrained in the very core of both the setting and the gameplay itself. I think the RP community is slowly but surely choking itself off to the point of dying by so vehemently rejecting this part of Eve, and even vilifying roleplayers who utilize it both in channels and in space. Without meaningful conflict, the parts that are left become kind of meaningless after it runs out of platitudes.
Logged

Teinyhr

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #20 on: 01 Sep 2017, 19:19 »

Ok, here goes: I think that's goddamn childish. Having a feud with a character does not oblige them to a Claw-Plach, and if you really want to fight, that is on you to do. No one is obliged to give you a fight just because they are roleplayers. If they run their mouth and get blabbed, and understand that they got blabbed because of that, then they really shouldn't complain. I play my character with the very real knowledge that she may upset someone she shouldn't, and I'm prepared to live with the consequences - but I am not going to go out of my way to make it easy on them - why would I? My character has other people to care for as well, namely the crew, and she will not throw their lives away just sate some other edgelord capsuleers ego. I can back my "risk-aversion" by in-character reasons, and they are just as valid as yours for being a "nulltard."

In general I've been lately pretty annoyed by this attitude that you have to be a fucking grimdark murdermachine to roleplay in EVE. It is not risk-aversion to try and avoid pointless deaths. My character -  my only character, who by the way can't put 40 billion ISK at risk because she probably has never owned that much ISK, even everything ever owned put together - is fucking tired of killing. That does not mean she won't do it, but she prefers to avoid it. Are you really going to tell me I can't play this kind of character, because it is the wrong kind of, "risk-averse" RP? Frankly, a lot of this rant sounds a terrible lot of "you're doing it wrong" kind of prattling, and you know what, I'll gladly do it wrong, whether you like it or not. I'll stay true to my characters story, because I want to explore something I never have done before - in most MMO's I've never given killing NPC's and players a second thought, but here I've done so, for the very precise reason that here it actually does matter, in many ways, both OOC and IC.

In relation to this, recently, I opened up a discussion about how I wish to start PvPing again, but if I can claim that as an OOC activity; I got pretty fast told that no, I can't separate that from my RP, because "everything is IC." So, I had to invent ways to circumvent this - namely, whenever I've PvP'd recently I've opened myself up to considerably more danger by letting enemies engage first - and typically nobody in this game engages first unless they are confident they have the advantage, most often by numbers or just vastly stronger ships. I can justify defending myself IC, but not attacking innocent people. Would I like to PvP more? Hell yes! But I can't, because I have to be able to justify it IC. So, my fault for making a semi-pacifist character. Fuck me, right? Well, at least I like to think of it as commitment to character. What was the point of this paragraph? Well, to somewhat explain why I might seem one of those "risk-averse" players, but I don't think I am, I am just somewhat constricted by my choices. Just because I don't fly in null or large alliances doesn't mean I'm killing RP, though.

Want to know what I think is killing RP? Extremely tight molding and dictating of what is "proper RP". Let people play what they want to play. You want to bash shit in null? Go right ahead. You want to just chill in high-sec and arrange costume parties. or use EVE as a glorified chat client? Just as valid ways to play and roleplay, IMO.

Conflict is highly ingrained in EVE, but it doesn't and shouldn't have to be the only thing that matters in EVE. The argument for player interaction would be more important in my opinion, if it didn't take so goddamn long. Roleplayers can be tens of jumps from each other, and unless you're using a Leopard, meeting other roleplayers for "meaningful conflict" can take a long time even if you agree to meet halfway.
If you have the time and conviction for that, then good for you. Don't expect that everyone else is similarly abled.

Well, that's about all I can think of to say for now. Altough this "community woes" pondering probably deserves its own thread by now, since it has nothing to do with the OP's question.
Logged

Lasairiona

  • Red
  • Omelette
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #21 on: 02 Sep 2017, 01:40 »

Quote
Want to know what I think is killing RP? Extremely tight molding and dictating of what is "proper RP". Let people play what they want to play. You want to bash shit in null? Go right ahead. You want to just chill in high-sec and arrange costume parties. or use EVE as a glorified chat client? Just as valid ways to play and roleplay, IMO.

YAAASSSSS!  :cube:
Logged

Mizhara

  • Prophet of New Eden
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2258
  • The Truth will make ye Fret.
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #22 on: 02 Sep 2017, 04:00 »

Ok, here goes: I think that's goddamn childish. Having a feud with a character does not oblige them to a Claw-Plach, and if you really want to fight, that is on you to do. No one is obliged to give you a fight just because they are roleplayers. If they run their mouth and get blabbed, and understand that they got blabbed because of that, then they really shouldn't complain. I play my character with the very real knowledge that she may upset someone she shouldn't, and I'm prepared to live with the consequences - but I am not going to go out of my way to make it easy on them - why would I? My character has other people to care for as well, namely the crew, and she will not throw their lives away just sate some other edgelord capsuleers ego. I can back my "risk-aversion" by in-character reasons, and they are just as valid as yours for being a "nulltard."
Teinyhr, did I at any point say anyone was obliged to provide a fight? Did I at any point say anyone was obliged to make it easy? Maybe don't put words in my mouth. What I am saying is that this overwhelming lack of willingness to actually reflect spoken words with action in the game is in the end rather harmful to the RP of Eve. For the lack of a better metaphor, it's like tabletop roleplayers never leaving the initial tavern and seeing the rest of the world, leaving the 'campaign' fallow and stagnant until the GM throws their hands in the air and shuts down the game.

Quote
In general I've been lately pretty annoyed by this attitude that you have to be a fucking grimdark murdermachine to roleplay in EVE. It is not risk-aversion to try and avoid pointless deaths. My character -  my only character, who by the way can't put 40 billion ISK at risk because she probably has never owned that much ISK, even everything ever owned put together - is fucking tired of killing. That does not mean she won't do it, but she prefers to avoid it. Are you really going to tell me I can't play this kind of character, because it is the wrong kind of, "risk-averse" RP? Frankly, a lot of this rant sounds a terrible lot of "you're doing it wrong" kind of prattling, and you know what, I'll gladly do it wrong, whether you like it or not. I'll stay true to my characters story, because I want to explore something I never have done before - in most MMO's I've never given killing NPC's and players a second thought, but here I've done so, for the very precise reason that here it actually does matter, in many ways, both OOC and IC.
So apparently I must have struck a nerve because I did quite specifically say it's perfectly valid gameplay and RP. In fact: "Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter." quoth the nulltard. There's no need to get so up in arms that you have to start putting words in my mouth or tilt at the "urdoinitrong" windmill to try and drown my actual argument here.

I don't know where you're getting this "you have to be a fucking grimdark murdermachine to roleplay in Eve" from either. The only thing I keep lamenting here is that people don't back up their words or choices with actual action. This isn't a needle at you, now, is it? If your character is against bloodshed and actually acts upon that, why would you take such umbrage at my words? They're clearly not aimed at you in any specific way. My mention of the isk value wasn't aimed at you either, it was a response to Louella implying competency means hiding things from risk.

Quote
In relation to this, recently, I opened up a discussion about how I wish to start PvPing again, but if I can claim that as an OOC activity; I got pretty fast told that no, I can't separate that from my RP, because "everything is IC." So, I had to invent ways to circumvent this - namely, whenever I've PvP'd recently I've opened myself up to considerably more danger by letting enemies engage first - and typically nobody in this game engages first unless they are confident they have the advantage, most often by numbers or just vastly stronger ships. I can justify defending myself IC, but not attacking innocent people. Would I like to PvP more? Hell yes! But I can't, because I have to be able to justify it IC. So, my fault for making a semi-pacifist character. Fuck me, right? Well, at least I like to think of it as commitment to character. What was the point of this paragraph? Well, to somewhat explain why I might seem one of those "risk-averse" players, but I don't think I am, I am just somewhat constricted by my choices. Just because I don't fly in null or large alliances doesn't mean I'm killing RP, though.

Hmm. That could be solved by your character finding a group of valid targets, surely? It's Eve. There's bound to be some people so horrible that there's no redeeming them or their crews, thus justifying shoot on sight, even for a semi-pacifist. Blooders, "nulltards", whatever. Maybe an area of space holds enough significance to her that random capsuleers encroaching upon it are surely ebils and need shooting? Sure, if it's in space, it's IC but there's so much room in a setting like Eve that you can damn near justify anything IC, up to and including pacifists bringing down the wrath.

Quote
Want to know what I think is killing RP? Extremely tight molding and dictating of what is "proper RP". Let people play what they want to play. You want to bash shit in null? Go right ahead. You want to just chill in high-sec and arrange costume parties. or use EVE as a glorified chat client? Just as valid ways to play and roleplay, IMO.

"Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter." quoth the nulltard. Where's the balance though? Also, null is hardly a prerequisite for conflict. Hell, it's antithetical to conflict these days since you're not going to find many roleplayers out there. I think I've maybe shared local with Arrendis and Utari a couple of times, and can't actually think of a moment when we've shared grids. Highsec doesn't have to mean shipspinning in a station.

Quote
Conflict is highly ingrained in EVE, but it doesn't and shouldn't have to be the only thing that matters in EVE. The argument for player interaction would be more important in my opinion, if it didn't take so goddamn long. Roleplayers can be tens of jumps from each other, and unless you're using a Leopard, meeting other roleplayers for "meaningful conflict" can take a long time even if you agree to meet halfway.
If you have the time and conviction for that, then good for you. Don't expect that everyone else is similarly abled.

Again, please don't put words in my mouth. No one, quite literally no one has said 'it's the only thing that matters'. It is however, pretty much completely absent. Especially in a way that would matter, like groups actually locking horns over something. Lamenting something having pretty much completely died off compared to the days of when RP was several orders of magnitude more active in Eve doesn't mean it is the only thing that matters.

There's a reason RP has almost completely died off in Eve compared to back in the day, and I'm pretty sure that a massive chunk of Eve's gameplay and the setting's complexity now being pretty much vilified by the RP community is to blame right alongside CCP's decision to freeze the world in place.
Logged

Gesakaarin

  • Egger
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 184
  • It's not like I wanted you to scram me Senpai baka
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #23 on: 02 Sep 2017, 05:40 »

In the period in which I'd say RP was pretty active compared to now: about 2006-2012 you'd be lucky to maybe, just maybe get 20 IC related news/lore related items PER YEAR. Gameworld developments from 2013 to now have in comparison been orders of magnitude higher, looking at the Operation Highlander, Driften Incursions, Amarr Championships, and Kyonoke events.

The functional difference is that over the past few years, the core element of RP which is the ability to work in and through some kind of collaborative framework has been lost. If the only place to get that is in smaller groups and environments with a limited scope of individuals then most people will do that if it means they get more enjoyment out of their RP. Essentially, RP still takes place, and I think it takes place at the same levels it always has, it's only that the RP related groups and characters as a whole have mostly taken their toys out of the public sandpit to go off and play by themselves.

Because in the end, you cannot FORCE someone to RP at or with you -- it remains a personal prerogative to do so.
Logged

Louella Dougans

  • \o/
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2156
  • \o/
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #24 on: 02 Sep 2017, 06:12 »

Lou:
What you're describing is the very peak of risk aversion. And wrong to boot. Competency does not mean 'hiding' things. It means risking things in acceptable risk/reward ratios.
Competence means taking acceptable risks.

and part of risk management, is reducing the risk, by making various things less visible.

I don't like to bring Nauplius up, but consider this:
A Sani Sabik ritual summoning temple, the goal is to sacrifice people, to the red god, in order to do something.
There's the logistics involved in collecting the sacrifices, building the temple, and keeping it in operation long enough.
Now, if the Imperial Navy found out about it, then, they'd send a task force to eliminate it. Or hire a mercenary force to eliminate it. (This is actually the plot of the 'Ritualist Raids' level4 mission).
So, it is in the sani sabik's interest to keep things as quiet as possible, to allow the ritual to complete.

Announcing that the temple is being built in a specific place and will be completed on Saturday, kind of goes against the whole objective of the exercise. It's saturday morning cartoon villain style.

:|

Quote
without meaningful conflict, the parts that are left become kind of meaningless after it runs out of platitudes.

It can be argued that there is no meaningful conflict. Incursions cannot be permanently stopped. The forever faction war will never end. The drifters will not be eliminated. Even in nullsec, there is enough isk and stuff that control over a particular area of space has little meaning. Even when an organisation is evicted from an area, they can rebuild elsewhere.

vOv
Logged
\o/

The Rook

  • Watcher in the Void
  • Egger
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
    • FalconNET
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #25 on: 02 Sep 2017, 08:05 »

Are you seriously shitting on someone who spends his space isk to make an event and content for no personal gain?

Logged

Louella Dougans

  • \o/
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2156
  • \o/
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #26 on: 02 Sep 2017, 08:44 »

Are you seriously shitting on someone who spends his space isk to make an event and content for no personal gain?

No.

contrast to what Mizhara said earlier about "actually playing the game".

Do nullsec entities announce what time their capital shipyard finishes its latest Titan build job ?
Announcing the time and location, would "generate content".
Or are such industrial activities concealed within industrial corps far removed from the common membership, so as to minimise leaks and so on.

People have put things in space in the past, but unless they make a particular fuss about it, not much rp occurs. Like, I put up containers with slogans on them, around a station that was quite busy in the FW warzone. I got maybe 3 comments from people about it.

So, the Nauplius model is a different kind of semi-artificial RP behaviour. Still doesn't seem to be what Mizhara was going on about, about rp'ers not "actually playing the real game".

vOv.
« Last Edit: 02 Sep 2017, 08:52 by Louella Dougans »
Logged
\o/

Teinyhr

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #27 on: 02 Sep 2017, 09:36 »

Teinyhr, did I at any point say anyone was obliged to provide a fight? Did I at any point say anyone was obliged to make it easy? Maybe don't put words in my mouth. What I am saying is that this overwhelming lack of willingness to actually reflect spoken words with action in the game is in the end rather harmful to the RP of Eve. For the lack of a better metaphor, it's like tabletop roleplayers never leaving the initial tavern and seeing the rest of the world, leaving the 'campaign' fallow and stagnant until the GM throws their hands in the air and shuts down the game.

Tell me, how exactly am I putting words in your mouth that you haven't already said? How exactly am I to interpret "The few people who are interested in both playing the game and roleplaying in it (as if there's really a difference) are massively outnumbered by the ones who just treat it as a shiny chat client" "The culture in Eve's RP community has changed to a risk-averse and conflict-averse soup " "There's not enough doers left who can take on the 'solved' Eve in gameplay, like in the days of Star Fraction etc, and nowhere near enough people willing to take on a bit of conflict neither in space nor elsewhere. " "We've become as much risk averse twats as the rest of Eve, only we go even further and won't even bloody play the game anymore. Conflict is an unspeakable horror to a huge amount of roleplayers," "RP entities stopped trying to actually play the damn game" "But mostly, it's again on us. We have become so fucking afraid of failure that we don't fucking do anything anymore. We hide in highsec or in FW, because sticking our toe out into the actual game means taking the risk of getting it bitten off."

How exactly am I not supposed to understand from those, that you wish people to shoot other people more, and anyone who doesn't, is "killing the RP?" Those really sound to me like lines where you want to make people feel guilty about not doing something you consider important. Maybe not you specifically, but people who've voiced the same complaints have lamented how roleplayers just stay holed up in stations and don't come out to be shot at - why the fuck would they? Imagine that someone is standing in front of your house yelling "come out so I can shoot you!" - and even if you were immortal, it would still hurt like hell, so would you? That is what I meant with not being obliged to make it easy.

And respectfully, I disagree with your resolution that taking action, i.e. blasting you in the face, because there really isn't much else to do outside the station, is somehow going to save the RP community. I wonder how often you see people claim they're going to kill another capsuleer, and then not follow up on it? I don't recall seeing such threats that often made. I mean, my character is not going to be hurt by words so hard that they feel the need to go blasting fools. Likewise I disagree with your tabletop RPG metaphor, because for one, there is no GM in the first place and maybe they have already explored the world to their hearts content, and now prefer to spend their time in a tavern reflecting on their past adventures. I mean if we're talking about the good old days and people who've quit or just aren't out there doing stuff anymore. Then we're talking about people who've already adventured a lot.

Quote
So apparently I must have struck a nerve because I did quite specifically say it's perfectly valid gameplay and RP. In fact: "Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter." quoth the nulltard. There's no need to get so up in arms that you have to start putting words in my mouth or tilt at the "urdoinitrong" windmill to try and drown my actual argument here.

Damn right I'm going to defend diversity in roleplay. Your actual argument is pretty hard to follow, at least for me. Don't forget to quote the whole thing though; "Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter. My characters can simply scoff when mouths are running in one direction and someone's feet are going the other way. It's just not very healthy for the RP in general, as it'll lead to stagnation of both characters and the setting. " This seems pretty dead set again guilting roleplayers who don't actively engage in PvP for hurting the community.

Quote
I don't know where you're getting this "you have to be a fucking grimdark murdermachine to roleplay in Eve" from either. The only thing I keep lamenting here is that people don't back up their words or choices with actual action. This isn't a needle at you, now, is it? If your character is against bloodshed and actually acts upon that, why would you take such umbrage at my words? They're clearly not aimed at you in any specific way. My mention of the isk value wasn't aimed at you either, it was a response to Louella implying competency means hiding things from risk.

Because there doesn't seem to be a place for characters that aren't out there actively doing something, and out there actively doing something most of the time means shooting at people, scanning down stuff to shoot at or to be shot at, or mining. Industrials, scientists and people who generally don't wish to engage in destruction for their own reasons are derided for being useless and their opinions worth nothing. So it feels like the only acceptable type of character to play is someone who actively wants to kill other people, for whatever reason, just as long as they want to kill. Just my personal experience from how my character has been treated and seen other similar characters being treated time and time again in IC venues, but  I acknowledge this view can be biased.

Quote
Hmm. That could be solved by your character finding a group of valid targets, surely? It's Eve. There's bound to be some people so horrible that there's no redeeming them or their crews, thus justifying shoot on sight, even for a semi-pacifist. Blooders, "nulltards", whatever. Maybe an area of space holds enough significance to her that random capsuleers encroaching upon it are surely ebils and need shooting? Sure, if it's in space, it's IC but there's so much room in a setting like Eve that you can damn near justify anything IC, up to and including pacifists bringing down the wrath.

Sure there are valid targets. Sansha, blooders, various other criminal factions, Diana Kim. But killing them still needs a trigger, especially if I am going to go and do 20+ jumps and try and find them. My character, as stated, wouldn't go out of her way to find someone to kill, even if they deserve it, but will kill them if she happens upon them. Pacifist was perhaps a too strong of a word, she is nonviolent unless there is a good, pressing reason to be violent. I suppose the trope of "Technical Pacifist" wouldn't be too far off. Avoids violence but is not shy of using it if push comes to shove, but dislikes killing people. After all, killing capsuleers is a pointless effort anyway.

Quote
"Of course, this is perfectly valid gameplay. It's perfectly valid RP for that matter." quoth the nulltard. Where's the balance though? Also, null is hardly a prerequisite for conflict. Hell, it's antithetical to conflict these days since you're not going to find many roleplayers out there. I think I've maybe shared local with Arrendis and Utari a couple of times, and can't actually think of a moment when we've shared grids. Highsec doesn't have to mean shipspinning in a station.

Null is just the go-to place where you can have PvP without repercussions (sec status wise), so mainly that's why I've brought it up. Highsec doesn't need to mean shipspinning in a station no, but again, most of the time my character and characters she hates enough to shoot on sight live so far apart, conflict in space is just not happening unless I go out of my way to find it, and most of the time, I just don't feel like hunting someone for hours on end, not the least because most often I don't have the time, and likely many other players who are getting older with more responsibilities don't have that kind of time either. If I were 10 years younger I would be more active in this regard, surely, and probably same applies to many other players.

Quote
Again, please don't put words in my mouth. No one, quite literally no one has said 'it's the only thing that matters'. It is however, pretty much completely absent. Especially in a way that would matter, like groups actually locking horns over something. Lamenting something having pretty much completely died off compared to the days of when RP was several orders of magnitude more active in Eve doesn't mean it is the only thing that matters.

Well, it seems to be something that you at least higly value, maybe not the only thing that matters, yes. And I don't consider it completely absent. FW still has RP elements in it to my understanding, Nauplius's Demon Temples gets bashed regularly, off the top of my head. But what is there for RP groups to fight about? Some storywise important pisshole in null or low? Maybe there's some idea in that, actually, but that too will eventually become stale, and I think that's why most larger RP alliances have either died or reduced signifigantly - why fight for something you can't actually affect at all and at worst even CCP gives you the finger?

Quote
There's a reason RP has almost completely died off in Eve compared to back in the day, and I'm pretty sure that a massive chunk of Eve's gameplay and the setting's complexity now being pretty much vilified by the RP community is to blame right alongside CCP's decision to freeze the world in place.

I think the latter reason is more heavier than the former. Roleplayers can't affect the gameworld no matter how large entities they grow, and fighting for something you can't change is not only pointless, eventually people will just burn out and fizzle. People shouldn't RP for rewards, but IMO it should be rewarded, somehow. I mean, 70 titans blow up and you get a permanent landmark. People OOC rage at a monument in Jita, it gets changed to a shattered monument. Hundreds (600+) of people fought over RP reasons (Star Fraction POS IIRC) in Kamela back in 2009 or so? There was not even a fucking word about it in in-game news, just a tiny mention in the evelopedia article for Kamela and that was only because I added it there myself. And IIRC the whole insorum thing where roleplayers got fucked over too.
Logged

kul Shaishi

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #28 on: 02 Sep 2017, 09:41 »

I'm of the joined for the world building aspect . And that's what I've been really thinking about doing
Logged
If Eve has one lesson in it's narrative, it's that if you find any weird ancient space cybercrap, you should stick that shit straight into your brain ASAP, no questions.

The Rook

  • Watcher in the Void
  • Egger
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
    • FalconNET
Re: Difficult to Return - Or "Hi, I'm Troy McClure"
« Reply #29 on: 02 Sep 2017, 12:06 »

Are you seriously shitting on someone who spends his space isk to make an event and content for no personal gain?

No.

contrast to what Mizhara said earlier about "actually playing the game".

Do nullsec entities announce what time their capital shipyard finishes its latest Titan build job ?
Announcing the time and location, would "generate content".
Or are such industrial activities concealed within industrial corps far removed from the common membership, so as to minimise leaks and so on.




There's a difference between announcing an event to farm few interested RPers to contest something and power bloc level strategic assets. You've already acknowledged that finding something by random chance is going to take quite a while. This may have been different with more and active RP interested folks zipping around a region in the past. So maybe give someone who provides stuff some leeway when it comes to immersion and if you really can't stomach it, just don't interact. I mean, we're surviving reading your 'I'm just a dumb blonde space nun' shtick without bringing out the torches either.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5