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[Mizhara]

Naw, that stuff's been going on for days, and that particular thread is a little but too "Not sure if..." to be the one. Besides, it's not like you'd need to be vague about it here on Backstage.

[Morwen Lagann]

Pretty much. If it's related to the kickstarter drama I don't see it as being too likely it'll get out of hand with this particular community.

[Mizhara]

On that topic, if someone doesn't make a Clever Girls Coalition versus the Band of Bookstarters/Mittens' Emporium I'll be sorely disappointed. It'd be a hilarious thing to watch from the sidelines.

[Aelisha]

From those of us who consume reddit via imgur:

[Mizhara]

I swear, the propaganda posts write themselves.

[Louella Dougans]

i talked to Norrin ingame, and it made me think about stuff and things in Eve.

Like:

Is it better to be optimistic and be constantly disappointed ?
Or is it better to be pessimistic and be constantly vindicated ?

[Aelisha]

If those are the only two options, find something more fulfilling, says I.

[Mizhara]

I'll repeat:



I started out optimistic and the constant disappointment as every. single. person. I ever put my trust in abused it to the nth degree led me to perpetual pessimism and constant vindication. I have become a fucking Prophet of New Eden, every prediction I make coming true simply by me laying out the worst case scenario and watching it unfold without me even being involved in the matter at hand.

It's not even self-fulfilling prophecies, as it works just fine when applied to completely unrelated matters where I'm not even on the radar. It's Eve Online, where no one are worthy of trust because they will, inevitably and without even the slightest hesitation fuck you in any way they can. Occasionally even just because they can.

Now, I'll grant you that many times, this isn't an act of cruelty or malice. It can be incompetence or obliviousness, or it can simply be a necessity because of how Eve is structured so that success is only really possible if you do leverage the "go fuck someone over" means at your disposal. I have largely come to terms with this and don't really get affected by it very much. I'll still lend people isk, I'll lend them ships, I'll put myself in a position where they can screw me over, because it is simply how the game is played. It's necessary if you want to try and accomplish something.

I just don't get surprised anymore when it inevitably backfires, and being aware of it allows me to make two steps forwards for every kick in the teeth by "friends". They are the only two options, in the end, and I envy the people who manage to convince themselves otherwise. It must be freeing.

[Arrendis]

On that topic, if someone doesn't make a Clever Girls Coalition versus the Band of Bookstarters/Mittens' Emporium I'll be sorely disappointed. It'd be a hilarious thing to watch from the sidelines.

If this doesn't happen, I will actively suggest to Mittens that we make it happen ourselves. Seriously, folks, how can you not?

[Elmund Egivand]

On that topic, if someone doesn't make a Clever Girls Coalition versus the Band of Bookstarters/Mittens' Emporium I'll be sorely disappointed. It'd be a hilarious thing to watch from the sidelines.

If this doesn't happen, I will actively suggest to Mittens that we make it happen ourselves. Seriously, folks, how can you not?

Nothing against Mittens but I do not fund Kickstarters on principle. For one, I'm not swimming in so much cash I can just fork out the money for someone's dream that may or may not materialise and get no dividends in return.

Also, I don't think the Kickstarter is going to succeed thanks to the overwhelming Grr Goons. I already did mention, IC on IGS, that the general bad press the Imperium kept getting (and helped created) is going to make things difficult for any venture that depends on the good-will of outside parties.

[Samira Kernher]

It doesn't help that the initial goal was set way too high.

I've backed, but at this rate I don't see it going through.

[Arrendis]

Eh, there's no sin in not backing a Kickstarter. I don't have a lot of spare cash myself, you know? And it was pretty obvious by about the 36-hr mark that it wasn't gonna happen. Mistakes, they were made, and marketing advice was listened to from people who were clearly not as wise in the ways of 'how do you market to our lovely community of vile monster?' (myself included  ) as they sought to portray themselves to be.

I've no idea what the backup plan is, if there is one, but I'm hoping it's going to be 'ok, we shut up about the damned kickstarter for the next two weeks, re-tool as a lower price point and tell Jeff to take 2 years if that's what he needs and he's still willing to do it'. There are other options, of course. So who knows?

And yeah, actually marketing something under the Imperium imprimatur is an uphill fight. This would almost make Gevlon insufferable, if he wasn't already. 

[Morwen Lagann]

Personally I didn't back it for three reasons:
- Lack of spare money (combined with ridiculous price points, and literally retarded kickstarter tiers and rewards)
- Lack of interest in funding what seemed to me to be a novel-sized block of propaganda by the new and improved Band of Brothers.
- Lack of confidence that it would even remotely take the universe's lore into account.

From what I hear, the handful of sample excerpts that were written were so terrible that they made Tony G's worst writing seem amazing in comparison. And then the subsequent response by the Goons to the Kickstarter stalling at the start line, then lurching forward and tipping face-first into a pile of shit really only served to justify my decision not to fund it.

I quite like a number of Goons as individuals, but I struggle to see any good in what is clearly no longer the plucky underdog fighting the good fight, but a fat, bloated, drooling lardbag trying to wipe off its putrid sweat with money.

[Samira Kernher]

The sample excerpts were first drafts and shouldn't at all be taken as indicative of what the final product might be.

[Utari Onzo]

My issue isn't Goons, but the Goon leadership itself. It seems to have lost base with the wider community, and Arrendis is right that marketing something with such a heavy connection to that elite circle was always going to be a tough sell. Sion going out of his way to write the article the way he did probably didn't help. It seems he had good intentions of "don't be mean" but the way his article came out felt, on reading, really accusatory/entitled on so many levels, and will likely do more harm then good.

The most basic mistake was tying the project so closely to the TMC, when surely Alex should have known the negative reputation he practically thrives in could backfire. When one practically makes a business out of revelling in hate and negativity/propoganda, it's not a great idea to mix that in with a marketing campaign when you're asking bucks for product. Charity, ok maybe, but not for business.

The other mistake was not letting Jeff do enough talking to the community at large by himself. This is something he later did, as he listened in and talked with us on comms in a provi fleet. It'll be sad if the book doesn't make it at all, as the guy actually listened when several roleplayers, including myself, started talking lore and he started asking questions and wanting links to stuff. He seems really engaged with us, and it's a shame it felt like it took a while for things like this to happen

Finally, it really seems like there's plenty who don't care about Grr Goons, but still find the project unworthy/aren't interested. At the end of the day, some projects, no matter how well marketed, just don't succeed.

Personally, I didn't back and not because I don't believe the book will be good/is all propoganda, but rather because I don't like crowd funding. I'm not going to put real cash money into a project before a product is ready, with 0 return investment. I have ISA's, a pension plan and shares for that. If the book does come out, then it'll get my cash money, or it can offer some kind of financial incentive for me to invest. Outside of that, it's just a pre-order for something that doesn't exist yet, and that's not Jeff's, TMC's or the book's fault.

The sample excerpts were first drafts and shouldn't at all be taken as indicative of what the final product might be.

This. Also, as I stated before, the guy asked a metric tonne of lore questions in the fleet with Corebloodbrothers and myself and a few other lore geeks were super excited to provide info, which he seemed to genuinely appreciate.