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[Saede Riordan]

With the completion of the character arc, I've compiled a lot of data on the Angel Cartel, I needed to for the project, and to make people's roleplays more enriching in the future, I've decided to come out with all the stuff I made up for the Angels. Its kinda poorly organized, but I've been sitting at a computer all day.

No one has ever really looked at the internal politics and culture of the Cartel proper, so I really had no baseline to go from. I had a lot of ideas, from Stillwater, and Ghost Festival, and a tiny bit from fragments of PF, but for the most part I was on my own. And so, I sort of made it up as I went.

The Cartel has a culture distinct from anywhere else in the cluster, they must, for a group where things like paranoia, mistrust, and callousness are positive character traits. They are very leery of outsiders, and go to extreme measures to stop people from learning too much. They conduct mindwipes in much the same way the Caldari conduct interrogations, with only minor changes to the tech in fact. And they love their mindwipes.

Because of this, its very hard to get inside the cartel, but if you do, you are a member for life. Its not that they stop you from leaving, but they make you not want to. The cartel compares itself to a family, and in fact, calls themselves the family internally, and they stick up for each other fiercely. They honestly love each, at least as much as other criminals can. If you are in the cartel, you're family, and they will do their best to take care of you. If an Angel considers someone family, then, because the cartel considers the Angel family, that person is seen as family as well. This normally only occurs in romantic relations, since the bonds of the 'Angel Family' are often much more significant then the hereditary family.

The cartel is multicultural, it contains people from all regions, cultures, and walks of life. Because of that, they have no real religion and their morals are fast and loose. If they have an opportunity to get the better of you, they will, happily.

While they have no real religion, they do have a loose, on the fly belief system of sorts. They believe that everyone is born with a guiding star, and you can follow it, or ignore it. Your star can be bright and easy to follow, or dim and hard to see by. They also have a rough belief in an afterlife, in the form of the Sunless Country, the undiscovered country from whence borne no traveler returns. They believe that the Sunless Country is not bad, or good, it merely is the next phase of existence, something that is not the be feared. To enter the sunless country, you need to give a a pair of coins to the Ferryman, to carry you across the border between life and death, without which, you will wander the world sleeplessly. No one knows exactly where this legend came from, but its thought to be older then stars.

Each Cartel member carries two coins, real ones, printed by the Angels themselves, to provide money for the ferryman. When an Angel dies, the coins are put over their eyes for the Ferryman to find. Angels that serve on ships sometimes have their coins sewn into their clothes or imbedded in their skin even to keep them from getting separated from the Angel during a near death event. When two Angels are in love, they often exchange coins as a sign of their faith and commitment to each other, a commitment that transcends life and death.

The Angels speak with a lot of slang, and picked up an entire language from the nations conquered in Feythabolis, the language is known as Teanga, it is spoken almost universally within the Cartel, and unknown most other places, making it very useful when trying to be discrete.
The language I've been using ingame as this is Irish Gaelic since it sounds really frakking cool, and I'm learning it in real life.

Anyway, braindump finished. I hope people find this useful.

[Saede Riordan]

I'm going to actually request this topic get moved up one forum, as now that I think about it, I feel like that's where it really ought to go.

[Morwen Lagann]

[mod]Thread moved from EVE Fiction/Fiction Discussion to Player Driven Content forum by author's request.[/mod]

[Saede Riordan]

so...no comments on this?

[Casiella]

I would just say this doesn't really match my personal view of the Cartel. I don't think they have that sort of love for other organization members -- they're generally portrayed as fearsome and ruthless, even to each other. For reference, see some of their officer descriptions as well as The Burning Life.

But I certainly could have missed some things. What inspired that part of your view? And from where did you derive the Ferryman belief??

[Ember Vykos]

Im somewhat inclined to agree with Casi on this one. Some of the stuff I can see as being viable. Like being somewhat leery of outsiders, at least initially, and a sort of slang or coded language would be beneficial to any group that wishes to talk openly or leave messages in public with no one konwing what they are really talking about. Not sure what the spoken version would be like, but I can imagine a sort of symbol code for safe houses or hot spots and the like. Religiously Ive always viewed them as having followers across the spectrum from Sani Sabik to athiesm and everything in between. I dont see having a internal belief system like you mentioned as being widespread throughout the whole Cartel, but that doesnt mean a few people wouldnt follow something like that or similar.

I could have missed some things too, and really aside from PF everything else is open to interpretation so its all possible I suppose.

[Saede Riordan]

I would just say this doesn't really match my personal view of the Cartel. I don't think they have that sort of love for other organization members -- they're generally portrayed as fearsome and ruthless, even to each other. For reference, see some of their officer descriptions as well as The Burning Life.

But I certainly could have missed some things. What inspired that part of your view? And from where did you derive the Ferryman belief??

Its not super true to fiction, but I haven't read the novels, and frankly, I wanted to make a group that wasn't just a criminal group. Right now the only characterization anyone has for the cartel is that they are ruthless criminals, but what criminal isn't ruthless? their so boring, so stereotypical, so basic. They are basically the xeroxed mail order crime syndicate, they have no flavor, no culture, their bland, boring.
I wanted them to have a real personality, a real culture. I wanted to make them relatable, and unique. So I did, in a sort of superstitious mafia, scientist sort of way.
Originally, they were going to be the Saturday morning villains, but as I wrote the arc, and moved things forward, that became more and more impossible, and this is what came out of it. I just couldn't do anything with them as the standard Hollywood movie villains they are in game, so I stretched outside of the very very small half formed box the PF had quasi wrote for them, its not too different then what people have done with the Caldari already.

But I am interested in seeing where this goes.

And Casi, the myth of the ferryman is old, like pre-Christianity old. The ferryman was a greek immortal named Charon, he ferried the souls of the dead across the river Styx, the tradition of burying the dead with coins covering their eyes originated from that, the coins were to pay the ferryman the required fee, for passage into the underworld.

[Aria Jenneth]

Its not super true to fiction, but I haven't read the novels, and frankly, I wanted to make a group that wasn't just a criminal group. Right now the only characterization anyone has for the cartel is that they are ruthless criminals, but what criminal isn't ruthless? their so boring, so stereotypical, so basic. They are basically the xeroxed mail order crime syndicate, they have no flavor, no culture, their bland, boring.
I wanted them to have a real personality, a real culture. I wanted to make them relatable, and unique. So I did, in a sort of superstitious mafia, scientist sort of way.
Originally, they were going to be the Saturday morning villains, but as I wrote the arc, and moved things forward, that became more and more impossible, and this is what came out of it. I just couldn't do anything with them as the standard Hollywood movie villains they are in game, so I stretched outside of the very very small half formed box the PF had quasi wrote for them, its not too different then what people have done with the Caldari already.

Hm.

The way I tend to interpret the Angel Cartel is as, functionally, a civilization that hasn't managed to put too many generations between itself and its origin as a pirate gang.

As I understand it, Curse spent some time not so long ago as a truly chaotic region, where rival pirate gangs (in spaceships, necessarily, so maybe a bit like Germany's raubritter, "robber knights"-- bandits with serious resources) warred over territory and resources. Imagine a highly-tribalized space, something like rural Yemen. Then imagine it completely unburdened by such niceties as tradition or shared identity. The only ones you can trust are your own (which includes, incidentally, those you have made your own). Alliances are transitory, victory fleeting-- unless you happen to be the last snake in the barrel, the one that's eaten all the others. In the end, the only means to achieve security is through merciless strength.

That's Curse, as of some unspecified number of years back. The Angel Cartel is the last snake in the barrel.

Now, that doesn't deny the possibility for some shared culture, but what we know of the Cartel is:

1. It's organized. Exceedingly. This has been hammered hard in the PF, and it makes abundant sense. In order to survive the crucible of Curse, it pretty well would have had to be.

2. It's got a technological "edge." From somewhere. The Cartel crushed its rivals at least partially through superior technology, apparently applied mostly to maneuverability and signature issues, and the origins of that tech remain a mystery. Those who spread rumors of Jovian tech left over from an earlier, greater Jovian empire have a way of disappearing. Again, this speaks to tight, efficient, ruthless organization.

3. It's widespread. The Cartel built the Serpentis fleet, provides security services to same, and still finds time to get itself involved with criminal activities cluster-wide. Incidentally, while the Serpentis seem to be the cluster's premier vice lords, Angel Cartel-associated products turn up routinely in association with booster production all over New Eden.

4. It's diversified. The various branches each have their own specialization; the ones we've really seen, however, are only the spacebourne ones. The purpose of at least one other, the Dark Angels, seems pretty obvious. Are there more? Hard to say. What is clear is that the Cartel believes in the right tool for the right job-- and in developing the right tools on a structural level.

5. It's multiracial and multicultural beyond any other faction in Eve, but has a lot of Minmatar, if only because the Republic is a major Angel stomping ground and the legitimate Matari economy isn't all that (large, easy recruiting pool).

6. It's at least somewhat unstable. The Seven's an Angel offshoot. And an entire Angel fleet split off when it tried (and failed) to rejoin the Republic for the sake of fighting the Amarr. You get this sort of instability when the governing power doesn't have a whole pack of legitimacy aside from the carrot it offers and stick it threatens with.

7. It looks on human rights abuses as, frankly, profitable. The Dominations sell slaves, and the Seven learned their brothel-running habits somewhere. If others ban a practice, that just makes it more profitable to carry out.

8. It's freaking scary. CONCORD is terrified of these people, ranking the Cartel as the #1 threat in New Eden.

9. It's suffered badly from capsuleer activity. The Chronicle, "The Winds of Change" is a pretty icky rat's-eye view of a patrol in Curse.

To me, this looks like an institution that's about three parts militarized gang, two parts business, and one part proto-civilization, and whose top priority in all things is in acquiring and maintaining advantage: power as a means to greater power, greater power as a means to survival and dominance.

I don't think the Angels worship power, since they seem too practical for that, but everything we know about them just screams "survive and thrive" as a central unifying priority. The Caldari were born in a world that was passively trying to kill them, with storms and bitter winters. The Angels were born in a world that was actively trying to kill them, with autocannons and blasters.

I don't think they've left it, yet. They're still a vicious gang at heart, with most of what that implies, but one in the pangs of slow transformation into a civilization: still driven primarily to seek the power to survive, but perhaps gradually reaching the point where they are starting to see options aside from "conquer or be conquered."

But in order to seize such opportunities, they need still more advantage....

Family? I think that was more a Ghost Festival thing (and it worked fine for PRETA), but less a trait of the Cartel as a whole.

Villains? Well, yes, to most of New Eden. But then, this is basically a proto-civilization crafted out of a bunch of militarized misfits-- the disenchanted or exiled of every empire.

Traditions/beliefs? I imagine the vast majority of Angels bring their own with them from wherever they originated. However, I seem to recall that it's canon that the Cartel has conquered at least a couple less-advanced civilizations. Some traditions from those cultures might well survive within the Cartel, such as the "guiding star." Neat idea, that.

[Saede Riordan]

Ahh, I hadn't really gotten that out of the Angel backstory, they way I'd seen it when Curse was opened, it was desolate and empty for a while, and the Angels, then at the time a lesser group in, probably, the hotzone between the Empire and the Republic, needed a place to run to after the wars, and the Empires started actually, ya know, caring about pirates.

They found curse and bunkered in, grabbing up everything they could get their hands on, so when the empires and other pirate factions turned their attentions toward Curse finally, the Angels gave them the finger and stonewalled their attempts to do anything with the region.

But honestly I like your way better, it leads to a more interesting dichotomy, and one that I sort of hinted at in my character arc but one that never really played a factor. It seems to me, that if you're the baddest kids on the block, and you've killed off all your enemies and neighbors, then within your ranks you have three major points contact between various subgroups of the Angels. These would be, fear, respect, and camaraderie.

Fear is the most obvious, there would be rampant, rampant fear among the groups in the Cartel. Fear the group above you would crush you from above. Fear the groups under you would usurp your power, fear that your neighbors would stab you in the back.

Respect, is less obvious, but still there. Respect for those around you for not being killed off, and holding onto what they have despite things.

And Camaraderie, because while all these groups are trying to crush you from all sides, if you make friends, you keep them close, and you treat them well, its sort of at this level I think you'd actually fairly likely see something similar to the Family thing I had, maybe not in quite so organized away, but you'd do everything, everything you could to keep your friends close.

As for the sort of mythos, I liked the idea of the angels having a loose belief system shared by all angels regardless of faith, creed, or background, and the idea of the ferryman is actually something that I've done research on in our world, and it seemed like a good fit, since it seemed to transcend faith, and I have personally had relatives buried with coins on their eyes, despite the fact that they were born again Christians, so its something that could realistically be included in basically all tenants for all faiths regardless. 

Also, I'd want to look at what third, or fourth generation Angels were like as people, where they have been raised into this world from birth, which, in theory, is what my character is. I have a feeling that as newer generations are raised into this world of violence and betrayal. Superstitions, strange beliefs, and a definitely distinct culture. As the fledging nation stabilizes, fear turns into paranoia, respect turns into idolization , camraderie turns into the idea of family, or maybe tribes.
That's just my rough take on things. This is actually a really fun discussion and I hope we get something good out of it.

[GoGo Yubari]

The way I tend to interpret the Angel Cartel is as, functionally, a civilization that hasn't managed to put too many generations between itself and its origin as a pirate gang.

This. Back during the era of old Aurora events at the dawn of time, there was a lot of action around the Angels. The thing that separates them from being just common criminals is their desire to be a sort of an "imperial" power. Just look at their very potent alliances with the Serpentis (and the Thukkers). They wanted to establish relations with the local capsuleer alliances back then, essentially figuring out who's with them and who's not, arraying them against the Sansha's who certainly vie with them over dominion. There was a war brewing back then and the Angels wanted proof that the capsuleers were worthwhile to have around.

As a flavor piece, I wouldn't ignore the fact that they have potential access to high-tech Jovian goods still lying in Curse, so in addition to Machariels who knows what they have found? That and the fact that they seem to have a master plan far more extensive than their usually simplistic criminal rivals.. (I guess they are similar to Sansha in that, actually).

Here's an earlier post where I go into my reading of the various pirate groups, including the Cartel.

[Ember Vykos]

The way I tend to interpret the Angel Cartel is as, functionally, a civilization that hasn't managed to put too many generations between itself and its origin as a pirate gang.

This.

Yeah pretty much. Everything Aria said and a few things I mentioned from the OP and my own head in my earlier post is pretty much how I view the Angel Cartel. The ruthlessness and general badassery is part of the reason why I like them so much.

One more thing. Dark Angels? Havnet heard of that or maybe I just missed it. Care to explain please? 

[Casiella]

It's listed as one of the organizations comprising the Cartel in the Heaven chronicle but I've never found any additional PF on them.

[Ember Vykos]

Cool thanks Casi. 

[Saede Riordan]

The way I tend to interpret the Angel Cartel is as, functionally, a civilization that hasn't managed to put too many generations between itself and its origin as a pirate gang.

This.

Yeah pretty much.

But we shouldn't stop there when describing them, that's really not enough information to make them interesting to roleplay, not the way the Sansha's, the Bloods, or the Guristas are. So lets go outside of the box presented by the pure fiction and look at them socially, politically, economically, culturally. What does an Angel do for fun? What songs do they sing? What curses do they mutter? what hatreds do they hold? What defines them? What are their taboos? What are their virtues? What is their political power structure like? How does their economy function? what are they like as a culture? As an entity?

These are the questions that I'm attempting to answer. I mean, ask a Gallente roleplayer any of those questions and they can go on and on about them, we have ream upon ream of fiction and documentation, made up, and real, on the four nations, we a decent amount on Sansha's Nation, some on the Blood Raiders, some on the Guristas, a bit on the Serpentis, but what do we have on the Angels? What defines them?

That's something that we as players are going to need to decide.

[Silver Night]

My Angel character (Hilion Narath) has a religion based around 'The Void' (who's female) as the primary 'diety'.