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[Silas Vitalia]

There's also the smartass game mechanics answer everyone hates: people who call themselves faction loyalists aren't actually really loyalists. If they really were loyalists, they'd be NPCs or event actors.

That way lies ruin and folly

I was going to post that but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.

[Anyanka Funk]

In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?

[Anskek]

In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?

Cause she wanted to use Kalo. That's enough reason.

[Silas Vitalia]

In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?

Cause she wanted to use Kalo. That's enough reason.

bwaha

[Ghost Hunter]

[sneezes from hitting the lock button instead of reply by accident]

Neat.

Meanwhile god only knows where the Talocan are at.

[Anskek]

[sneezes from hitting the lock button instead of reply by accident]

Neat.

Meanwhile god only knows where the Talocan are at.

Some think they might be involved in this somehow. Possibly controlling the drifters but. We dunno yet.

[Esna Pitoojee]

The issue with saying "we've relaxed our standards, temporary truce, etc" or making comparisons like Operation Paperclip is that they imply a cessation (however temporary) of hostilities. Because CCP decided to be dumb with Incursions and tie storyline to game mechanics, Sansha attacks are ongoing even as the 'cooperation' would be set to begin. Similarly, Paperclip involved removing the scientists (sometimes forcefully) so that they could work directly and solely for the US government after the war's end. No such limitation is in place here; even claims of changing sides are dubious at absolute best and ridiculous in general considering Nation indoctrination technology and past actions.

If CCP wanted to use this as a means to cancel Incursions in favor of Drifter attacks, that'd be one thing. But so far, we've not seen anything in that direction.

[Anskek]

Oh well.

[Kybernetes]

It could be as simple as adding a tiny footer to the DED newscast

'the Drifter Threat has forced us to relax some of our normal law enforcement standards and forced cooperation with known terrorists under these extreme conditions'

Or a follow-up news article about.. some of the Yulai assembly members voicing concerns of the victims of blood raider and sansha attacks outraged at DED cooperation with capsuleer Sansha and Raider supporters'

That's the kind of thing that adds depth for me, more nuance and grey areas like we know and love in new eden.

Not sure how CCP making something explicit about it would make it any less of a 'head shake', honestly; if people are interested, the opportunities to RP about DED being in the wrong, question the motives of the dodgy characters getting involved with the DED, and myriad other things are right there. CCP are doing a nice thing in making the lore a bit more dynamic, but RP's done, ultimately, by the players. They shouldn't have to play out every single possible angle for characters to take for active characters to take them.

The issue with saying "we've relaxed our standards, temporary truce, etc" or making comparisons like Operation Paperclip is that they imply a cessation (however temporary) of hostilities. Because CCP decided to be dumb with Incursions and tie storyline to game mechanics, Sansha attacks are ongoing even as the 'cooperation' would be set to begin. Similarly, Paperclip involved removing the scientists (sometimes forcefully) so that they could work directly and solely for the US government after the war's end. No such limitation is in place here; even claims of changing sides are dubious at absolute best and ridiculous in general considering Nation indoctrination technology and past actions.

If CCP wanted to use this as a means to cancel Incursions in favor of Drifter attacks, that'd be one thing. But so far, we've not seen anything in that direction.

Ditto what I said above, really. The report gives plenty of angles to RP for or against it. I see it working fine with Kyber being involved with the Nation and Kalo with the Blooders, by the reasoning I gave earlier in the thread. You mightn't, but the RP opportunities are still there.

Regardless, seems like the issue here is a larger one than I can smooth over, so gonna duck out before I go in circles I think. :U

[Esna Pitoojee]

Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was gunning for your head, Kyber. It's more that internal consistency issues relating to effortless 'faction hopping' has long been a big, big issue of mine and it was very frustrating to see CCP effectively endorsing it.

Everything you do has consequences, except when it doesn't, etc etc.

[Anskek]

I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Liuni Kalthis]

Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was gunning for your head, Kyber. It's more that internal consistency issues relating to effortless 'faction hopping' has long been a big, big issue of mine and it was very frustrating to see CCP effectively endorsing it.

Everything you do has consequences, except when it doesn't, etc etc.

If you want to get down to it, its because Liuni is dumb but knows how to get by with Charm and way too much luck than anyone has a right to have.
Kalo on the other hand has always been my researcher character who first went into the Minmatar Militia, got awoxed by Late Night alliance and then after defending herself got turned into a Red to most of the militia.
After that fact she then joined scopeworks until Silas wanted some OOC help with Jihad squad so Kalo joined that. While there I thought the faction was interesting and well, "Why the fuck not" with Kalo going that route. Now with her gaining access to more Blood Raider tech and missions, along with her scientific leaning and my own studying for a biology degree I thought she would be -much- better suited for this paper than Liuni who would just be a 'rawr' face better suited to tell the news than to be in a lab coat discovering it.

Now for the CONCORD paper, it was a paper submitted to concord by the players. Capsuleers that are not part of the organizations but have loyalties to them. If the Nazi's give you the cure to cancer are you going to say "No fuck you" or just narrow your eyes and slowly pocket the cure away?

Beyond that enjoy your "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG MUH JIMMIES!" you have going on there.

[Synthia]

hours of work

out of interest, how many hours of work did these reports take, to generate and publish ? They're very well polished. Did CCP give you the graphics to do the official DED reports ? or did they make them themselves ? I saw the first one, before it had a DED stamp on it, I liked it.

I can appreciate putting hours of work into science things, only for people to complain. I've put several hours of work into Synthia's scientific stuff, including all the excel spreadsheets and datasets and all that. So *hugs* to you for making this, I enjoyed it.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.

Not discounting your points, but you do see why faction hopping, pew pewing certain factions and then helping them, being a thing that can be done in game, makes not much sense in character?

There's a million things that make sense for the players, to make the game not tedious and endlessly punishing for in game actions, that make zero sense in the game world and are ridiculous on the surface.  It's a difficult game design thing, to let you shoot at X faction one day and then be hired by X faction to do work the second day. 

CCP has a boner about in game consequences for 50% of game activities, and willfully ignores them for the rest.

They go to lengths to tell you all how much special snowflakes you matter, the things you do are important, except when they are inconvenient or don't.

[Liuni Kalthis]

I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.

Not discounting your points, but you do see why faction hopping, pew pewing certain factions and then helping them, being a thing that can be done in game, makes not much sense in character?

There's a million things that make sense for the players, to make the game not tedious and endlessly punishing for in game actions, that make zero sense in the game world and are ridiculous on the surface.  It's a difficult game design thing, to let you shoot at X faction one day and then be hired by X faction to do work the second day. 

CCP has a boner about in game consequences for 50% of game activities, and willfully ignores them for the rest.

They go to lengths to tell you all how much special snowflakes you matter, the things you do are important, except when they are inconvenient or don't.

Liuni has shot more concord than Kalo has >.> the blooder is up to <.< 0 times.