Backstage - OOC Forums
Archives => Katacombs => Topic started by: Anskek on 24 Apr 2015, 12:38
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http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/breaking-news-drifter-autopsy-press-conference-interrupted-1/
Woops.
Guess we made em mad. So, they didn't want us talkin about their bodies, interrupted a transmission. What's next?
Also hope ya'll enjoyed the report. If you have questions I'll try to answer them. :eek:
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hi
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Ché was like :| when he saw Anlso, then :o when he saw Mizhir.
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Why :|
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Nice.
I always wondered though, how player get to be chosen for that ? Is it done by CCP reading what is said on the IGS or something ? Private mailing lists ? A'J stuff ? Players contacting dev actors ?
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We used a large amount of IRL resources and knowledge in our fields to make this as close to realistic as possible. There's enough wiggle room for CCP to make a story, but enough solid factual science in it to not seem like derp fantasy. We essentially said, if we had no limitations IRL and we needed to build a Drifter like being for a task, how would we do it?
I work closely with the National Institutes of Health in the USA along with a lot of drug and medical device companies. I have access to plenty of research. Miz and Kalo are both pre-Med. Kyber is just vastly intelligent in all things mechanical, process, and logic. This combined allowed us to make a realistic and strong analysis.
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That, I guessed it. I did not mean that.. That was not the question(s)...
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Rephrase it.
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Nice job!
I think she might be wondering why maybe this player activity is an official thing with DED, CONCORD, etc
and much other player activity is (was) not?
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Uh... Ok. I'll try...
What makes CCP pick up people and their work ? I do not mean quality of work as it should be a mandatory criteria, but where are they looking ? Is it stuff said on the IGS ? A'J ? Is it players discussing OOC or IC with dev actors ? From where does it come from ?
Basically, how do you make your work known by CCP so that it potentially comes into light in news, or else ?
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Nice.
I always wondered though, how player get to be chosen for that ? Is it done by CCP reading what is said on the IGS or something ? Private mailing lists ? A'J stuff ? Players contacting dev actors ?
Anslo got the idea to make the first report (visual analysis of drifter implants). When it was released we were asked by CCP to do a 2nd report. So if you can make a detailed analysis of something and it suits CCP's direction of the lore you may end up in same situation :)
In our case we had an extensive pool of knowledge as Anslo mentioned.
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Why :|
Because I'm prettier than you.
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Because I'm prettier than you.
I don't know, he is a very pretty man.
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I always knew kalo was a narc.
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Why :|
Left eyebrow slightly raised is Ché's default expression. And it raised just a bit more after seeing your face on the holoscreen. You should not be surprised by that. :cube:
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Nice.
I always wondered though, how player get to be chosen for that ? Is it done by CCP reading what is said on the IGS or something ? Private mailing lists ? A'J stuff ? Players contacting dev actors ?
Anslo got the idea to make the first report (visual analysis of drifter implants). When it was released we were asked by CCP to do a 2nd report. So if you can make a detailed analysis of something and it suits CCP's direction of the lore you may end up in same situation :)
In our case we had an extensive pool of knowledge as Anslo mentioned.
Was the report sent to CCP ? A dev actor ? Published on the IGS ? Somewhere else ?
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Nice.
I always wondered though, how player get to be chosen for that ? Is it done by CCP reading what is said on the IGS or something ? Private mailing lists ? A'J stuff ? Players contacting dev actors ?
Anslo got the idea to make the first report (visual analysis of drifter implants). When it was released we were asked by CCP to do a 2nd report. So if you can make a detailed analysis of something and it suits CCP's direction of the lore you may end up in same situation :)
In our case we had an extensive pool of knowledge as Anslo mentioned.
Was the report sent to CCP ? A dev actor ? Published on the IGS ? Somewhere else ?
Both reports have been sent to CCP before they were published. It was Anslo who did all the communnication with CCP so he knows the whole process better than I. But I believe he has been in touch with Falcon and Affinity through the tweetfleet slack.
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Ah ok. So we have to buddy them through social networks. 8)
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Ah ok. So we have to buddy them through social networks. 8)
No. Anyone in this thing can enter and talk to CCP and give feedback. It's a community thing. Let's not spin it like only a select few get access and that CCP is biased. Get on slack, submit an idea. If it's solid, then yay.
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No, what I mean, is how do I submit the idea without having to buddying them on social networks, or just go through social networks ? Just out of curiosity, not that I have anything to submit right now...
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You can just send them an email to their work emails. It should be @ccpgames.com if I remember correctly.
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The foremost thing I want to know is why the flying fuck is the DED cooperating with Blood Raiders and Sansha without a single word on it? :psyccp:
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Ah ok. So we have to buddy them through social networks. 8)
No. Anyone in this thing can enter and talk to CCP and give feedback. It's a community thing. Let's not spin it like only a select few get access and that CCP is biased. Get on slack, submit an idea. If it's solid, then yay.
what is slack
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The foremost thing I want to know is why the flying fuck is the DED cooperating with Blood Raiders and Sansha without a single word on it? :psyccp:
Because who else to know more about blood and implants than some really fucked up scientists, I don't know? Just was a fun community project >.>
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The foremost thing I want to know is why the flying fuck is the DED cooperating with Blood Raiders and Sansha without a single word on it? :psyccp:
Because who else to know more about blood and implants than some really fucked up scientists, I don't know? Just was a fun community project >.>
Not empty quoting. Desperate times. Desperate measures.
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Senpai has in fact noticed you~
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Senpai has in fact noticed you~
Making Scope Senpai proud.
But seriously we just wanted the story to move and people to have fun. Love me or hate me, I don't give a fuck. I just hope people enjoy the content and have fun and run with it to make more content. A snow ball effect.
Slack is an IRC with a jabber interface.
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Ah ok. So we have to buddy them through social networks. 8)
No. Anyone in this thing can enter and talk to CCP and give feedback. It's a community thing. Let's not spin it like only a select few get access and that CCP is biased. Get on slack, submit an idea. If it's solid, then yay.
what is slack
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what is slack
It's a technological alternative to the telepathy a lot of people seem to expect the CCP folks to have.
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Said "Raider" and "Sansha" are actually undercover DED agents.
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what is slack
It's a technological alternative to the telepathy a lot of people seem to expect the CCP folks to have.
what does it do
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what is slack
It's a technological alternative to the telepathy a lot of people seem to expect the CCP folks to have.
what does it do
It let's you chat like an IRC with a jabber interface. How is this hard to understand.
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what is slack
It's a technological alternative to the telepathy a lot of people seem to expect the CCP folks to have.
what does it do
It let's you chat like an IRC with a jabber interface. How is this hard to understand.
i don't know irc or jabber.
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Google them.
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vOv
you say get on slack.
about as useful as saying 'get on twitter' and not saying what twitters you should be looking at.
vOv
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All.The.Twitters. Allahu Akbar
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Good work all involved! Especially Kyber for flying the AWEX- flag, but all of you did a sterling job getting this to press.
I'd be jealous if I wasn't already proud of the effort you all put in.
*Continues grinding away on my holographic hardware treatise to explain what a photonic processor is*
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Quite cool stuff. :)
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vOv
you say get on slack.
about as useful as saying 'get on twitter' and not saying what twitters you should be looking at.
vOv
I would guess they're talking about about the Tweetfleet slack. (https://www.aideronrobotics.com/tweetfleet)
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We used a large amount of IRL resources and knowledge in our fields to make this as close to realistic as possible. There's enough wiggle room for CCP to make a story, but enough solid factual science in it to not seem like derp fantasy. We essentially said, if we had no limitations IRL and we needed to build a Drifter like being for a task, how would we do it?
I work closely with the National Institutes of Health in the USA along with a lot of drug and medical device companies. I have access to plenty of research. Miz and Kalo are both pre-Med. Kyber is just vastly intelligent in all things mechanical, process, and logic. This combined allowed us to make a realistic and strong analysis.
You guys did a really great job at it, very high quality scifi ))))
Work left no chance of being a part of actual event but the document was really cool to read and even cooler to see you guys in video :D :D :D
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Neat.
And yeah, usually just emailing CCP folks can get boulders rolling, depending who you are.
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Where can the report be found ?
Also seriously, why so caustic with all the answers ? I'm seriously trying to see how you usually contact CCP for that kind of things, and what kind of material they expect also (or if you have to be someone special or whatever). It's not like it's obvious at the first glimpse you know.
Hell if I know their email work addresses, since I don't use tweetshit or whatever... :/
The foremost thing I want to know is why the flying fuck is the DED cooperating with Blood Raiders and Sansha without a single word on it? :psyccp:
Either they didn't bother to check, or either for them it's just freelance capsuleers claiming this or that loyalty but that's it.
Though ofc if said capsuleers are in the habit to work for pirate agents and the likes, yeah... Well. CONCORD never made a lot of sense to begin with.
Senpai has in fact noticed you~
Making Scope Senpai proud.
But seriously we just wanted the story to move and people to have fun. Love me or hate me, I don't give a fuck. I just hope people enjoy the content and have fun and run with it to make more content. A snow ball effect.
Slack is an IRC with a jabber interface.
Personally I like the thing. It provides content, even if i'm really not into their drifter deus ex machina thingy.
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Where can the report be found ?
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/news/2015/GameWorld/Autopsy_Report_6608491108.pdf
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/news/2015/GameWorld/Medical_Report_6608491108.pdf
there seems to be 2 slightly different ones.
I would guess they're talking about about the Tweetfleet slack. (https://www.aideronrobotics.com/tweetfleet)
guessing doesn't really help. Also how does it even work, wrt character names and stuff ? Maybe you'd want to send stuff from 2 different characters or something ?
still grates a bit. What happened to the faction contacts ? why is an out-of-character-out-of-game tool needed, to disseminate IC interaction and information ?
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Thanks !
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Personally I like the thing. It provides content, even if i'm really not into their drifter deus ex machina thingy.
Just a note: a proper deus ex machina shows up to fix things with a wave of its benevolent hand.
An ancient, powerful enemy that shows up to maybe obliterate you with the technologies of a lost civilization is usually called something else.
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still grates a bit. What happened to the faction contacts ?
I know of some other recent IC interactions with dev actors. I'm not sure how they got started, but can rule out the Dev Actor contacting individuals on the 'declare your loyalty' thread.
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Just a note: a proper deus ex machina shows up to fix things with a wave of its benevolent hand.
An ancient, powerful enemy that shows up to maybe obliterate you with the technologies of a lost civilization is usually called something else.
Oh-god-no-not-my-face ex machina?
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Either they didn't bother to check, or either for them it's just freelance capsuleers claiming this or that loyalty but that's it.
See, this kind of thing bugs me. The first option implies that CONCORD is too dumb to check corporation history (let alone posting history), and I've made my opinion known before on enforced stupidity of authority figures to make things work.
The second option doesn't fly either, because at least one of the characters there was actually directly harming CONCORD's goals by deliberately preventing the protection of planetary populations during the Sansha live events. Not handwavium, not empty posting, actual ingame effects.
I'm all for wanting to recognize player activity - but once you pick a side like that, unless something major changes in the universe your actions shouldn't just be ignored. I wouldn't expect the Republic to honor Esna after he flew with the 24IC just a few years back without some major changes.
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Well, here we are. Lyn flew like 2-3 years in the Crusade, and she is perfectly welcome in the Republic because everyone likes her :D
More seriously, I agree yes. CONCORD never made sense mechanics wise...
And since TEA most authority figures are le stupid.
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I was as surprised as anyone to see Kyber, past and current supporter of Sansha's Nation, standing in the DED Assembly Plant--with his spiky clothes on, no less.
I don't see it as irreconcilable with his RP or the setup of the DED, though. If you're looking for the cluster's bleeding-edge in cybernetics and medicine and putting any ethical qualms aside (for whatever reason), it'd probably be hard to go wrong with one of them being involved with the Nation and another with the Blood Raiders.
If the DED see that this team's outstripped their own research on the Drifters, and the Drifters are manifestly a threat to CONCORD and Sansha's Nation alike, I can sort of see where a brief and awkward détente might come from.
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I was as surprised as anyone to see Kyber, past and current supporter of Sansha's Nation, standing in the DED Assembly Plant--with his spiky clothes on, no less.
I don't see it as irreconcilable with his RP or the setup of the DED, though. If you're looking for the cluster's bleeding-edge in cybernetics and medicine and putting any ethical qualms aside (for whatever reason), it'd probably be hard to go wrong with one of them being involved with the Nation and another with the Blood Raiders.
If the DED see that this team's outstripped their own research on the Drifters, and the Drifters are manifestly a threat to CONCORD and Sansha's Nation alike, I can sort of see where a brief and awkward détente might come from.
The funny thing is that Miz is bending the rules as she see fits and has a past full of crimes. The only reason why she isn't -10.0 is bribery and other forms of forgery. I even had the police chase me around when I was in Yulai for the event and had to rely on Morwen to get my ass out (thanks♥) So it is quite a dreamteam DED has assembled to do the research. Edit: It was Anslo who organized it and DED was just told to listen.
So the way I interpret it is that the team has been chosen based on their knowledge and experiance which would outweigth their past and affiliation. Which put furthere emphasis on the dire status of the situation.
And to everyone else: don't expect any hard facts and data. CCP has provided us with only a sliver of information so we have to make everything up while still leaving it vague enough for CCP to interpret it. We can't dictate everything. We can just come up with suggestions that somewhat fits the direction.
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The pool of RPers willing to do this sort of project thing is already extremely, extremely small. We're talking about maybe a dozen people out of many thousands of subscribers.
The pool of those dozen or so RPers who have the appropriate in game standings and history to actually do work for the DED is smaller still.
Basically as is always the rule, CCP will weigh it slightly and throw consistency out the window for plot advancement.
They think having this game news and video trumps the pro-sansha and blood raider people being on the podium and not being immediately shot by the police, etc.
I completely get why they would not care about this in order to promote game content, but I also get why this breaks many 4th walls for people following the IP.
It's like if in the next Star Trek movie Princess Leah shows up on the bridge of the Enterprise giving Captain Kirk a hot cup of Earl Gray tea and calls him #1, and a million nerd's heads explode, and Paramount says stop being a nerd this is just what's happening now.
:P
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Save a NPC freighter, everyone congratulates you. Move the story along and everyone bitches.
Funny how this shit works, isn't it?
Mods, you can close this thread. Don't know why I fucking bother.
PS, you don't like that we got canonized?
Then do better scrubs.
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Save a NPC freighter, everyone congratulates you. Move the story along and everyone bitches.
Funny how this shit works, isn't it?
Mods, you can close this thread. Don't know why I fucking bother.
I only wanted to know the best way to communicate with CCP, cos the faction contacts seem a bit unresponsive, and I don't know teh email addresses for ISD either. And people are not very helpful.
\o/ for stuff
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I completely get why they would not care about this in order to promote game content, but I also get why this breaks many 4th walls for people following the IP.
It's like if in the next Star Trek movie Princess Leah shows up on the bridge of the Enterprise giving Captain Kirk a hot cup of Earl Gray tea and calls him #1, and a million nerd's heads explode, and Paramount says stop being a nerd this is just what's happening now.
:P
Eh, I offered an explanation for it that I don't feel stretches anything too far. With a bunch of technologically superior mysteries descending from on high and occasionally blowing people out of the sky, it's hard to imagine every alliance remaining totally static forever.
It mightn't fit your vision of what the IP 'should' be, which is fine, but I don't see how it doesn't work. CCP's doing a great job making the lore more accessible and more integrated with what players do with these videos; saying that it's bastardising the storyline on account of it not being what you personally would have done seems a bit unfair to both CCP and RPers who get involved.
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Operation Paperclip is a historical example that may be relevant.
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I completely get why they would not care about this in order to promote game content, but I also get why this breaks many 4th walls for people following the IP.
It's like if in the next Star Trek movie Princess Leah shows up on the bridge of the Enterprise giving Captain Kirk a hot cup of Earl Gray tea and calls him #1, and a million nerd's heads explode, and Paramount says stop being a nerd this is just what's happening now.
:P
Eh, I offered an explanation for it that I don't feel stretches anything too far. With a bunch of technologically superior mysteries descending from on high and occasionally blowing people out of the sky, it's hard to imagine every alliance remaining totally static forever.
It mightn't fit your vision of what the IP 'should' be, which is fine, but I don't see how it doesn't work. CCP's doing a great job making the lore more accessible and more integrated with what players do with these videos; saying that it's bastardising the storyline on account of it not being what you personally would have done seems a bit unfair to both CCP and RPers who get involved.
I don't have a dog in this fight in the slightest, just presenting both sides of the argument. A reminder my first words in the thread were NICE JOB.
I can simultaneously be happy for you people doing a fun personal project and getting recognized for it in game, and at the same time shake my head at lore implications. All good yall.
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I don't have a dog in this fight in the slightest, just presenting both sides of the argument. A reminder my first words in the thread were NICE JOB.
I can simultaneously be happy for you people doing a fun personal project and getting recognized for it in game, and at the same time shake my head at lore implications. All good yall.
I'm not having a go--I just mightn't be seeing the same dire implications for the lore and IP that you do. No problem.
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I don't have a dog in this fight in the slightest, just presenting both sides of the argument. A reminder my first words in the thread were NICE JOB.
I can simultaneously be happy for you people doing a fun personal project and getting recognized for it in game, and at the same time shake my head at lore implications. All good yall.
I'm not having a go--I just mightn't be seeing the same dire implications for the lore and IP that you do. No problem.
Not dire at all! Just an interesting thing to think about.
It's like, the Pope won't invite Osama Bin Ladin to give a speech on the steps of the Vatican, so for me the DED having capsuleers who support the 'bad guys' doing a press conference gives me a big head shake. But again I am excited for you all to do a thing and be recognized for it.
It could be as simple as adding a tiny footer to the DED newscast
'the Drifter Threat has forced us to relax some of our normal law enforcement standards and forced cooperation with known terrorists under these extreme conditions'
Or a follow-up news article about.. some of the Yulai assembly members voicing concerns of the victims of blood raider and sansha attacks outraged at DED cooperation with capsuleer Sansha and Raider supporters'
That's the kind of thing that adds depth for me, more nuance and grey areas like we know and love in new eden.
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There's also the smartass game mechanics answer everyone hates: people who call themselves faction loyalists aren't actually really loyalists. If they really were loyalists, they'd be NPCs or event actors.
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There's also the smartass game mechanics answer everyone hates: people who call themselves faction loyalists aren't actually really loyalists. If they really were loyalists, they'd be NPCs or event actors.
That way lies ruin and folly :P
I was going to post that but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.
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In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?
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In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?
Cause she wanted to use Kalo. That's enough reason.
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In kalo's case, why not use Liuni who is actually in Scope?
Cause she wanted to use Kalo. That's enough reason.
bwaha
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/612/974/1de.php)
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[sneezes from hitting the lock button instead of reply by accident]
Neat.
Meanwhile god only knows where the Talocan are at.
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[sneezes from hitting the lock button instead of reply by accident]
Neat.
Meanwhile god only knows where the Talocan are at.
Some think they might be involved in this somehow. Possibly controlling the drifters but. We dunno yet.
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The issue with saying "we've relaxed our standards, temporary truce, etc" or making comparisons like Operation Paperclip is that they imply a cessation (however temporary) of hostilities. Because CCP decided to be dumb with Incursions and tie storyline to game mechanics, Sansha attacks are ongoing even as the 'cooperation' would be set to begin. Similarly, Paperclip involved removing the scientists (sometimes forcefully) so that they could work directly and solely for the US government after the war's end. No such limitation is in place here; even claims of changing sides are dubious at absolute best and ridiculous in general considering Nation indoctrination technology and past actions.
If CCP wanted to use this as a means to cancel Incursions in favor of Drifter attacks, that'd be one thing. But so far, we've not seen anything in that direction.
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Oh well.
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It could be as simple as adding a tiny footer to the DED newscast
'the Drifter Threat has forced us to relax some of our normal law enforcement standards and forced cooperation with known terrorists under these extreme conditions'
Or a follow-up news article about.. some of the Yulai assembly members voicing concerns of the victims of blood raider and sansha attacks outraged at DED cooperation with capsuleer Sansha and Raider supporters'
That's the kind of thing that adds depth for me, more nuance and grey areas like we know and love in new eden.
Not sure how CCP making something explicit about it would make it any less of a 'head shake', honestly; if people are interested, the opportunities to RP about DED being in the wrong, question the motives of the dodgy characters getting involved with the DED, and myriad other things are right there. CCP are doing a nice thing in making the lore a bit more dynamic, but RP's done, ultimately, by the players. They shouldn't have to play out every single possible angle for characters to take for active characters to take them.
The issue with saying "we've relaxed our standards, temporary truce, etc" or making comparisons like Operation Paperclip is that they imply a cessation (however temporary) of hostilities. Because CCP decided to be dumb with Incursions and tie storyline to game mechanics, Sansha attacks are ongoing even as the 'cooperation' would be set to begin. Similarly, Paperclip involved removing the scientists (sometimes forcefully) so that they could work directly and solely for the US government after the war's end. No such limitation is in place here; even claims of changing sides are dubious at absolute best and ridiculous in general considering Nation indoctrination technology and past actions.
If CCP wanted to use this as a means to cancel Incursions in favor of Drifter attacks, that'd be one thing. But so far, we've not seen anything in that direction.
Ditto what I said above, really. The report gives plenty of angles to RP for or against it. I see it working fine with Kyber being involved with the Nation and Kalo with the Blooders, by the reasoning I gave earlier in the thread. You mightn't, but the RP opportunities are still there.
Regardless, seems like the issue here is a larger one than I can smooth over, so gonna duck out before I go in circles I think. :U
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Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was gunning for your head, Kyber. It's more that internal consistency issues relating to effortless 'faction hopping' has long been a big, big issue of mine and it was very frustrating to see CCP effectively endorsing it.
Everything you do has consequences, except when it doesn't, etc etc.
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I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.
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Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was gunning for your head, Kyber. It's more that internal consistency issues relating to effortless 'faction hopping' has long been a big, big issue of mine and it was very frustrating to see CCP effectively endorsing it.
Everything you do has consequences, except when it doesn't, etc etc.
If you want to get down to it, its because Liuni is dumb but knows how to get by with Charm and way too much luck than anyone has a right to have.
Kalo on the other hand has always been my researcher character who first went into the Minmatar Militia, got awoxed by Late Night alliance and then after defending herself got turned into a Red to most of the militia.
After that fact she then joined scopeworks until Silas wanted some OOC help with Jihad squad so Kalo joined that. While there I thought the faction was interesting and well, "Why the fuck not" with Kalo going that route. Now with her gaining access to more Blood Raider tech and missions, along with her scientific leaning and my own studying for a biology degree I thought she would be -much- better suited for this paper than Liuni who would just be a 'rawr' face better suited to tell the news than to be in a lab coat discovering it.
Now for the CONCORD paper, it was a paper submitted to concord by the players. Capsuleers that are not part of the organizations but have loyalties to them. If the Nazi's give you the cure to cancer are you going to say "No fuck you" or just narrow your eyes and slowly pocket the cure away?
Beyond that enjoy your "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG MUH JIMMIES!" you have going on there.
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hours of work
out of interest, how many hours of work did these reports take, to generate and publish ? They're very well polished. Did CCP give you the graphics to do the official DED reports ? or did they make them themselves ? I saw the first one, before it had a DED stamp on it, I liked it.
I can appreciate putting hours of work into science things, only for people to complain. I've put several hours of work into Synthia's scientific stuff, including all the excel spreadsheets and datasets and all that. So *hugs* to you for making this, I enjoyed it.
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I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.
Not discounting your points, but you do see why faction hopping, pew pewing certain factions and then helping them, being a thing that can be done in game, makes not much sense in character?
There's a million things that make sense for the players, to make the game not tedious and endlessly punishing for in game actions, that make zero sense in the game world and are ridiculous on the surface. It's a difficult game design thing, to let you shoot at X faction one day and then be hired by X faction to do work the second day.
CCP has a boner about in game consequences for 50% of game activities, and willfully ignores them for the rest.
They go to lengths to tell you all how much special snowflakes you matter, the things you do are important, except when they are inconvenient or don't.
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I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.
Not discounting your points, but you do see why faction hopping, pew pewing certain factions and then helping them, being a thing that can be done in game, makes not much sense in character?
There's a million things that make sense for the players, to make the game not tedious and endlessly punishing for in game actions, that make zero sense in the game world and are ridiculous on the surface. It's a difficult game design thing, to let you shoot at X faction one day and then be hired by X faction to do work the second day.
CCP has a boner about in game consequences for 50% of game activities, and willfully ignores them for the rest.
They go to lengths to tell you all how much special snowflakes you matter, the things you do are important, except when they are inconvenient or don't.
Liuni has shot more concord than Kalo has >.> the blooder is up to <.< 0 times.
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At first I was a little wtf? about the loyalties of the capsuleers in question then just went with the desperate times, desperate measures thing.
Oh and to those involved ('cos I don't think its been said enough)
fucking good work
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I get the same dissonance feeling like sometimes when CCP has to acknowledge a non RP player for something or other in game and the character name..
It's like
"Today the Amarr Empire and most holy of priests honors "CAPTAIN PENISFACE L33T" for his contributions to Empress Jamyl and the war effort"
"Captain penisface do you have anything to say to the assembled masses of baseliners?"
"GET REKT, JAMYL SUX LOL NOOBS"
I'm not saying you all are anything like this in the slightest, but I did watch the DED video with half 'yay good work' and half 'ccp facepalm'
Wait don't those capsuleers do mean things to the nice people? :P
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to the nice people?
Nice people?
THIS IS EVE
there are no nice people
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On balance I think featuring PC's in these things is good.
As for the oddities of loyalties. The pirate factions are small governments essentially. What if CONCORD is trying to get them to go legit and stop pirating? That's a bit of a stretch with the Raiders & Sansha I grant you, but I could see a deal being struck with the Cartel, Serpentis & Guristas.
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Maybe I am too late to answer the question Lyn had but there has been an ISD regularly asking in A'J about what is going on.
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I get the same dissonance feeling like sometimes when CCP has to acknowledge a non RP player for something or other in game and the character name..
It's like
"Today the Amarr Empire and most holy of priests honors "CAPTAIN PENISFACE L33T" for his contributions to Empress Jamyl and the war effort"
"Captain penisface do you have anything to say to the assembled masses of baseliners?"
"GET REKT, JAMYL SUX LOL NOOBS"
I'm not saying you all are anything like this in the slightest, but I did watch the DED video with half 'yay good work' and half 'ccp facepalm'
Wait don't those capsuleers do mean things to the nice people? :P
Capsuleer Dementia at its worst.
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I do really think it's an impressive piece of writing - It's better then most of the stuff CCP puts out these days, at least - and it makes me happy to see recognizeable members of the community involved in pretty high profile publicity stuff. I haven't heard of anything like that happening since the days of Arek'Jaalan. I think it also shows encouraging interest in the roleplay community by the devs.
But... I do have to agree that CCP involving people in the storyline so deeply, not through dev actors or in game means, but through out of game channels that aren't openly advertised in any capacity with the roleplay community... Or, hell, the lore-invested community in general, sets a bit of a bad precedent. I'm not jumping across the rooftops and crying "NEOPOTISM" or anything like that, but it's a fact that not everyone is going to have an equal chance to pitch things to CCP through these means. They might be social-media averse, or have been banned by the third-party owners of the platforms for completely unrelated reasons. They might just be oblivious that they even exist.
I stress I would be totally fine with this were it not like that, but CCP doing stuff like this with people kind-of-privately, especially at a time when they're kinda direly neglecting direct interaction through the platforms they've actually offically sponsered, even in cases where the players involved are making quite a bit of personal effort to a point that might even equal this, well... I mean. I can see why it might make people feel a bit alienated, which is a problem. Players (roleplayers especially) who feel alienated tend to get bitter and make fusses and, well, stop giving CCP money.
I hope everyone remembers the incident that split the OOC/Summit channels. People don't like to be left out - And even the impression of favouritism, correct or incorrect, is enough to get people very upset.
I'm trying to word this carefully, because I REALLY don't want to steal any of the fire in this away from the people who did it - Because again, it is very impressive and they obviously put a ton of effort in and that's super cool! And they don't deserve any critisism for this. But I hope they can see how people who have put tons of effort into other stuff, only for said stuff to be completely ignored without fanfare, might be a bit bummed.
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Couple things.
Firstly - a lot of claims here seem to me to be founded on what I believe to be a vast misrepresentation of the order things happened here. Now, I could have it wrong, sure - but here's how I understood the order of things:
1- Anslo, Mizhir, Kyber and Kalo put together the initial report, based on what they could see through the ingame model previews for Artemis and Apollo. Additional extrapolation and detail was added by taking what they could see ingame and mapping it to what is known of the human body in the real world. This was discussed actively in Slack (minus Kalo, who doesn't use Slack to my knowledge) among other places, because Anslo was looking for other people with a medical bent (in or out of character) to work with him on it.
2- This report was passed around to a few people to give a quick preview of it, and then it was posted to the IGS. The people on Hydrostatic's recent "Entosis" lore panel were among the people to get a preview, because, iirc, Anslo decided to have it posted during or right after the panel concluded and there was interest in briefly talking about Drifter physiology during the panel.
3- CCP Falcon and/or Affinity and/or Delegate Zero then saw the final version of the report after it was posted to the IGS, either while perusing on their own, or from it being discussed on Slack or Twitter. This is the point that the devs chose to become involved. Not before, as some people seem to be insinuating. They may have seen it being discussed elsewhere before it was released but I certainly don't remember any commentary from them on it that would have been of any real use to Anslo and company.
4- The second report was written at the devs' request with a few hints or vague suggestions at what they might have found while doing an autopsy. This report was the basis of the Scope video last Friday. There was some correspondence at this point - as there should have been, since CCP asked for the second report.
Second - Slack is open to absolutely anyone who wants to use it. It is not a gated community in any sense of the term except by effort put forth on the end of the person wanting to use it. We actually passed the 1,000 member mark this past weekend - #999 and #1,000 were roleplayers, in fact. If you want to get access, you either can use the signup page (if it's working, it's a bit finicky from what I understand) or you can ask a member of the moderation team to send you a direct invite. There are 21 people on this team, which includes several CCP devs, as well as players from a wide variety of ingame entities and backgrounds (including, for reference, at least 2 or 3 users of Backstage - Anslo, Lucas Raholan and myself). All that's needed is an email address to send the invite to. (As far as retaining access to Slack goes, you have to more or less deliberately go out of your way to have that revoked. Kinda like OOC, Summit and Backstage - and I really do stress the deliberately bit.)
Third - has it occurred to you (or anyone else) that perhaps a reason CCP neglects direct interaction through the game itself is because of past bullshit? Not to mention how difficult it is to wade through the tens or hundreds of individuals all simultaneously screaming for attention from the Blue Text God that happens frequently when they hop into a channel - not just the RP community ones? It's pretty bad. If you haven't seen it happen, watch people trying to field questions from Twitch chat during a livestream. That'll give you a good idea of how bad it is. Now imagine it's happening in several channels at once - that's what it's probably like for people like Falcon or Logibro when they hop ingame. The signal to noise ratio is just too low for it to be a good platform for them. Slack, on the other hand, keeps track of people trying to reach you directly and periodically lets you know about it. It also allows you to walk away for several hours - or even close the app or browser - and come back and see what you missed. It is, in many ways, a superior platform to the EVE client.
Fourth - I kind of wanted to leave it alone, but I really can't resist: an MMO roleplayer who is averse to social media and yet wants special attention from CCP for things they're doing? Hilarious. If people are having difficulty coping with not getting attention because they're averse to using the best mediums for getting that attention... yeah, I'm gonna laugh. Sorry-not-sorry - either you want the attention and will do what you need to do to get it, or you don't and won't.
So, tl;dr:
1) CCP didn't get involved until AFTER Anslo and company posted to the IGS with their shit. Anyone trying to twist things to make it look like there was behind the scenes collusion and involvement prior to the release of the first report, knock it the fuck off.
2) It is stupidly easy to get onto Slack. So if you aren't on it and want to be, get off your own lazy ass and do what you need to do to sign up instead of making spurious and unfounded complaints about gated content creation or cool kids' clubs or whatever.
3) CCP doesn't actually get very deeply involved in discussions on Slack with any kind of frequency. Same with Twitter. Slack (and Twitter) just happen to be mediums that are far more conducive to their occasional participation or chiming-in than the EVE client is because it doesn't require them to put 100% of their attention and focus on it to follow and look for things they need or might want to respond to.
4) If someone genuinely wants the attention, they should do what they need to do to get it. That includes their chosen subject matter being interesting to others, as well as finding and using ways to get exposure for said subject matter. If you aren't willing to do that, you're gonna have a bad time.
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I'm gonna keep this short as I got limited time.
@Gwen: This was kept in private because it was supposed to a surprise to everyone. Anslo even evaded my questions because he wanted me to get surprised with the scope (hurr hurr no pun intended) of the video.
@Morwen: The first report was submitted to CCP before it got published to players. Not sure if the podcast guys got it before or after CCP. Either way. CCP loves player generated content wether it is RP or not.
@Everyone: I have written an article about how it all happened. Right now I'm waiting for Falcon's response as we want to make sure that things are also correct according to CCP so we avoid more drama.
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Thanks for clarifying, you two
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@Morwen: The first report was submitted to CCP before it got published to players. Not sure if the podcast guys got it before or after CCP. Either way. CCP loves player generated content wether it is RP or not.
That isn't what Anslo said when I checked with him before posting (he may have misread what I said, or not thought it worth making the distinction), but it's also sort of beside the point I was making - they were still not involved with the actual creation or content of the first report beyond, as you say here, getting a preview of it.
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We did NOT submit the first report to CCP before publishing...I think. We published, then CCP got interested.
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I'll repeat that I really wasn't saying anyone was actually doing something exclusive or actually being benefiting from favourtism. I don't think that at all. I was saying that, when this sort of thing goes on over a platform that only 5% or so of the playerbase (or in this case, playerbase subgroup) people are kinda gonna jump to unfortunate conclusions. CCP has a super-duper-mega bad track record when it comes to picking out people they like and involving them more deeply/giving them special boons, and a lot of people are probably quick to assume the worst because of that.
And, like, it's easy to say, "If you want attention, you should know where to get it!" But, though it can be difficult to appreciate, it is sometimes surprisingly difficult for someone out of a loop - Not knowing the right people, not being around at the right times - to get in the loop. Even if the loop is actually very friendly and open once you know where it is. So, I think CCP should be as open as possible about the wells it draws from for these sorts of things.
Again! Please nobody get mad at me for running this thing through the mud, because that's totally not my intention, honest. It's just, well, obvious that some people are kinda upset, that's all. And that should be addressed, not met with cries of, "Too bad!" That doesn't help anybody.
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Gwen nailed it.
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[mod]Enough of this bullshit. By that I don't mean the reports or the work going into it. That gets several thumbs up.[/mod]