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[Letos]

When I decided to try EVE a few weeks ago, I actually thought to myself: let's go out there and find scifi/cyberpunk RP! Getting into the game engine concepts was hard and I don't care for the number crunching. Finding RP is also not easy. I don't consider myself particularly shy, maybe a bit cautious. So, what makes the hardest part for me is the lack of visibility. Visibility has two aspects for me in this regard.

First, conversation takes place in a 'virtual virtual' chat mostly. I had the opportunity to roleplay in actual space a few times. It was real fun and immersive. But mostly it's a virtual connection between characters. The conversations are interesting and exciting from time to time. But the possibilities are very limited. No matter what happens somewhere else, your character is just staring at the IC chat. More things should happen somewhere else, in places where characters share the same actual situation!

Second, my initial expectation with EVE was, that roleplay happens by accident within space. And this seems to be impossible to me at this point. In a 'true' roleplay environment I would consider to establish spontaneous social interaction whenever I accidently meet another character in a station. I would open up a radio chanel before engaging some possible hostile character in space, trying to get some interaction going etcetera. This does not seem to be expected, desireable...or very smart in EVE So, ongoing roleplay is not visible in this second way. A bunch of ships clinging together in space? Better not stop by and have a look (thats what I've learned so far). Using local chat is considered a fool's tool and mostly ooc. If someone in local is ready for spontaneous RP, it's invisible.

Nevertheless, I think EVE has potential for fine roleplay. Otherwise I would not have switched from Trial to Full Account. This forum is an important medium for me too. I hope it's in-game section will expand! And last but not least, some very nice and interesting stories are going on here (meaning this forum and the things I wittnessed IC)! As a newcomer, my bottom line so far is: the community is there, but it is challenging to get a grip on it. That's my personal view, of course.

[Halcyon]

To reply with more words as requested.
I RP in the summit, I invite people to visit me, I make mention of my place as a lace to visit. I make mention of other places to visit. I occasionally arrange to meet people at the other places. I hold conversations about things and I'm currently also trying to do corp rp. You can complain about it being fractured but that's inherent within the system. We're not all going to rp together in one big place unless it's the summit because the different factions don't get on. This isn't WoW where the only people you can talk to are other people with the same in game faction agenda. An additional problem would be the fact that there are two summits and two oocs, which does fragment things. There's nothing to do about that though and please, please let's not use it for a discussion because I am so sick of that same repetitive argument.
So
It happens, I'm enjoying it. it's pretty good, I'm doing my best to be nice to the newbies and give them options.

[Ember Vykos]

Is it recovering?
Is it stagnate with little hope to recover?
Is it dead (Jim)?

For me, it's too early to tell, but it feels a bit more stagnant than it did when I left. That's par for the course though....I don't RP on Simca yet, but I do put my alt into the Summit(both of them sometimes) and it just seems like the same old same old. Granted that's only going on 2 days worth of being back around so as I stated its too early to judge just yet. 

Is it fractured?

It's always been fractured. Ever since I started playing and looking into RP before I ever actually started it, I could kinda tell that there were groups here and groups there. Group A doesn't like Group B much and forget those Group C assholes. That's just the nature of the beast bro. Everyone interacts with each other in one of the summits on some level, and that's about it. Otherwise people tend to stay with people that share their views or with neutral parties.

Thoughts?

On a personal level most of my rp going forward is going to be mainly just me telling Simca's story to myself, and probably my girlfried since she's one of the few people I know that likes the random letters on a page that I call 'writing.' She may also get involved with Simca's in game RP since she played such a big part in getting me back in game so it's only fair she gets to play part in Simca's return as well. Simca will probably pop into one of the summits from time to time and maybe go to a few places or events, but that's all I'm really seeing for myself right now. Of course there is meeting Katrina, which I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes. All that, of course, is if I even start RPing again. Right now it's not a huge priority for me, and I just kinda wanna enjoy the game for a bit before I start getting back into open RP.

Can it be saved? I don't know, but at its core the EVE RP community is great, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

*Fixed broken quote tag. - Havo.

Thanks Havo. 

[Katrina Oniseki]

So, Eve RP:
Is it recovering?

From what?

Is it stagnate with little hope to recover?

Not by any means, no.

Is it dead (Jim)?

Dammit, I'm a Kat, not a doctor!

Is there a way to revive it if so?

The "FC Syndrome" is strong here. Think of being a GM for a storyline or host for an event as being FC. Everybody wants an FC, but nobody wants to be the FC. Too much stress of herding cats. In the same breath, these people who complain of there being no FC seem to somehow ignore those who are flailing their arms saying "Join my fleet!".

There are some out there who put in the time, effort, and fortitude to actually push something along. Halcyon's events, Nauplius' tower, Evi's Pyre Fleet, and smaller or less visible plotlines specific to each individual characters. But despite that, we still hear people suggest there is nothing or not enough going on.

Is it fractured?

No more so than any other group of disparate people, including the playerbase of EVE. The "RP Community" is not a corp, or alliance, or even a coalition. It is more comparable to an EVE profession, where seperate and even rival groups of players is expected to be found, like the Incursion community.

Incursion runners are split along several major lines. Shield fleets, Armor fleets, Shiney fleets, Low/Null fleets. They often fight with each other, and they even more often sabotage or attack each others' meta. Despite that, they are a community, when viewed from the outside. Same with us.

It's not fractured, because it was never whole, nor was it ever meant to be whole. It is what it is, a large grouping of very different people all doing a similar thing with their playtime. Assuming the "RP Community" should be something where we all hold hands is akin to assuming the same of any other facet of EVE. (Read: Silly)

Is it not fractured and silly to think that way?

See above.

Thoughts?

Stop worrying. Things are fine as they are.

[Mizhara]

Fractured? As it should be, divided along lines of interest, personalities and so on. No more or less than it has always been.

Recovering? Myeahno. It was never dealt any kind of blow, necessitating any sort of recuperation. It just dwindled. For the most part, there's little in the way of real loss anywhere other than a completely dead Minmatar faction and it's kept aloft entirely by my (read: Miz's) raging hateboner for the Empire/Slavery and she's barely Minmatar as it is. Nothing that can be done there, really. CCP's insistence on focusing entirely on spacemagic, woooOOOoooOooormholes and cartoon villains over progressing anything at all with the main factions is the main problem and the only cure is to fix that.

Stagnated... a bit. That's what happens when the storyline comes to a screeching halt and the only progress happens way out in the periphery and the universe itself remains in stasis for years on end. Solution already mentioned, not really in the hands of the players at this point.

Dead? Wouldn't say that. The Amarr have a somewhat vibrant community if the channels I've seen is any indication. The Caldari have some great stuff going on with PIE-RED spearheading some great Black Rise stuff and who knows what the Fedos are up to? And there's never been any shortage of the peripheral silly stuff that seems to be the curse of every RP community out there. MinFaction is pretty much dead as players have fled to real life, various pirate/foreign factions or Holland or whatever but that's just how things go.

Revival... solution already mentioned. Progress the bloody factions. Drop nukes on them, for that matter. Shake things up so hard the entrenched sandcastles fall down and let's watch everyone scramble to build new ones.

[Anskek]

Stop worrying. Things are fine as they are.

You're right. It probably is, even if I don't see/am not involved with it. Whatever. A mod can nuke/close this thread at their earliest convenience.

[Morwen Lagann]

Getting it out of the way first, since it bears repeating (and I know I've said similar things to you before): If you spent half as much energy on actually participating in RP and displaying a constructive attitude, as you do on being abrasive, edgy, and filling channels with smacktalk and kebab memes, you probably would see the RP going on (or even be involved in it) and not have felt the need to make this thread.

The "state of RP" is not much different than it was this time last year.
- There are some new faces, a portion of whom are certainly alts of old faces; the MCT promo that CCP gave us for the holidays helped in that regard.
- There are plenty of old faces who are still around.
- There are a number of old faces who have left, are taking a break, or aren't as public as they used to be.
- Player-run events are still happening on a regular basis, and people are still going to them.
- The Summit is still one of the more active channels compared to others, primarily because of its fairly accessible nature. (Chatrooms require less 'effort' to step into than physical locations.)
- Lots of RP is happening in private among small groups. Normal and realistic.
- Impromptu RP is still best generated by someone getting off their lazy fucking ass and starting something somewhere and saying something about it in OOC and/or Summit instead of pissing and moaning about how nothing's going on.

I think that covers everything.

[Anskek]

Fuck you kebab is love and life.

And I know, and honestly I'd rather be me than ~constructive~ by other people's standards. I won't change for them. If that means no RP, then fuck it. I already said this thread can be closed anyway.

EDIT: Also, why should I not be abrasive? That's all I fucking got back before I actually went and did something to stop it from happening? I, of all people, have all the god damn right in the world to be abrasive given all that bullshit (which ok may=no RP, which is funny given the people who fucked with me get RP, but LOOOOLANSLOAMIRITE).

[Aelisha]

I do think that the key issue is perception of the RP phenomenon, not so much the phenomenon itself.  Some people have dead RP, others have never been better.  The primary issue, if I had to point to one specific subset of RP, is the adversarial nature of EVE clashing with cross-loyalty, unscripted RP (emergent narrative conflict). 

Small groups can RP fine because they generally have a set of unwritten rules, an extension of their pre-existing friendship(s).  They also feel very little need to communicate their RP success unless called upon to do so, because it is usually an insular phenomenon.  Output is probably feedback in threads such as this and the occasional tweet or bit of fiction.  All good, but insular. 

Mid-scale is cross-loyalty friends or associates RPing, either retroactively (we fought last night in game, what happened narratively?) or live (usually channel RP at this point, which is of variable 'worth' depending on who you talk to and their motivations). 

The high-tier, abstract level 'meeting of minds' that the Summit et al seem to suggest exists, seems very much to be a hate-sink with reasonably well enforced rules.  RP is the wild west of conflict, no mechanics to support it, he/she who spits fastest and hardest will come off as a hero to some and a seal clubbing douche to others.  The need to 'win' is strong, and not just in a sense of actual victory.  Coming off as IC or OOC morally superior, the better roleplayer, actually winning and argument (etc) are all sub-classifications of victory.  Many of which co-exist, contributing to a cycle of conflict that could be productive, if only it weren't so self defeatingly at crossed-purposes. 

At the abstract level, in my opinion, the lack of close bonds, shared history and an acceptance of where there is friction and conflict worth exploring contribute to an environment of low-level simmering toxicity.  This is not necessarily a totally terrible thing; yes it can be unpleasant, but look at the innately toxic nature of any open discussion forum, including our own governments.  The issue is the deadzone perception it creates.  The question it raises is 'is this all there is'.  Many of us know that the answer to this is no.  The problem is we're the few, the old and the wise in the ways of space-make-believe. 

The RP NPE is hard mode; imagine all that awful, terrible fanfiction and table top you might have engaged in irl.  That at the time seemed ok because everyone else was doing it, but which if revisited would probably have you banished from the group for 'gross inability to function in any productive manner narratively speaking'?  I'm talking 'Adeptus Astartes Humanist with liberal sexual values' levels of derpmode.  Self-insert Wh40K fanfiction Star Trek cross-over levels of derp.  These might be sins of the 7th pit, but we've all earned our pass to RP hell at some point at the table top or keyboard.  usually far before we'd subject ourselves to the horror of online interaction with strangers.

Now take that long, rambling, shudder inducing self-awareness of your teenage roleplaying sins and imagine someone stepping into the Summit or OOC, well aware of this phenomenon of 'original sin' and thinking 'these guys are arguing a LOT.  I'm going to look stupid.  Lurk mode engaged'.  Deadzone perception achieved. 

Add to this the constant perception of even passingly conversant/knowledgeable newbros as alts, and we have a circlejerk perception of stagnant Rp kept churning through use of alternate personas.  NPRP (NPERP being something else entirely) is a battle of a high proportion of introverts, trying to do something they enjoy, with other introverts, while in constant fear of group judgement. 

How do we fix this?  I ask - why do we need to?  Raise awareness of RP corps (those that 'do shit' and 'don't do shit' alike - RP is a many faceted thing after all and some prefer the fully narrative approach).  Grassroots the whole thing - good group RP leads to a support for your ideals.  Support leads to confidence, confidence leads to participation on less solid foundations, held up by your friends and seeking to explore those bits of RP that scratch or rub at the edges of your own. 

There's nothing really to 'fix'.  Abstract level Rp is merged into the EVE meta.  it is a competitive thunderdome that only functions smoothly when all involved know that fair play is pretty much moderator whims made manifest and down to the individuals involved.  Get thee like-minded fellows, and the clusterfuck rapidly becomes far less brutal - and you can always just nope out and sneer/laugh or philosophize about it to those friends if the toxicity rises beyond the usual levels. 

Tl;Dr: The more abstract and boundless you Rp, the more vectors shite can fly in from.  People don't like getting pelted with shite (usually).  The fear of shite leads to the avoidance of shite.  Thus perception of deadzone and misperception of the quantity of shite being much larger than is actual becomes the norm.  My Suggestion: Find like minded individuals prior to entering the shitstorm for comfort/support/fallback position. 

[Saede Riordan]

Second, my initial expectation with EVE was, that roleplay happens by accident within space. And this seems to be impossible to me at this point. In a 'true' roleplay environment I would consider to establish spontaneous social interaction whenever I accidently meet another character in a station. I would open up a radio chanel before engaging some possible hostile character in space, trying to get some interaction going etcetera. This does not seem to be expected, desireable...or very smart in EVE So, ongoing roleplay is not visible in this second way. A bunch of ships clinging together in space? Better not stop by and have a look (thats what I've learned so far). Using local chat is considered a fool's tool and mostly ooc. If someone in local is ready for spontaneous RP, it's invisible.

Quoting this specifically. I think you would be very pleasantly surprised Haria, about how much in space RP is possible in certain places. Like, my rule has always been 'local is in character' maybe the other person isn't roleplaying back at me, maybe they're confused by what I'm saying, but if you have their ship warp scrambled? They tend to pay attention.

I've had some awesome RP generated out of space actions. Escorting newbies who wander into Origin back out, shouting down Amarrians in the warzone while plexing, lots of things. You just kind of need to be willing to put yourself out there. If I see I'm in local with only one other person? Maybe I'll say something semi-mysterious to them in local.

By and large I definitely agree with Morwen, Kat, and Mizhara. The people I tend to hear complaining the most loudly about there not being RP tend to also be the people who refuse to step out of their comfort zones, put themselves out there, or even, gasp, dare I say it, pro-actively initiate things! the EVE RP community has a bad case of Lesbian Sheep syndrome. There's a few people, but not nearly enough, willing to wear the pants, create content for others, and drive the story forward. People want to be spoon fed content. They don't want to have to work for it, go looking for it, or anything like that. This happens outside of RP too, as I'm sure you've noticed Anskebab. There's a lot of people who'll complain about being bored but are unwilling to take a fleet out themselves to alleviate that boredom, they want someone to do it for them.

[Anskek]

This happens outside of RP too, as I'm sure you've noticed Anskebab. There's a lot of people who'll complain about being bored but are unwilling to take a fleet out themselves to alleviate that boredom, they want someone to do it for them.

We purge them.

[Louella Dougans]

The counter point, and there is some amount of evidence of it on this forum, is that on several occasions someone does suggest doing something, and then a bunch of people pile on with statements like:
"this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in" - then why did you post ?
"Not interested, also I would express disapproval towards anyone who did express interest" - okay ?

which only creates the impression of people wanting to stop others from RPing, for OOC reasons.

No Fun Allowed.

[Anskek]

You're better at wording things than I am.

[Aedre Lafisques]

Fuck you kebab is love and life.

And I know, and honestly I'd rather be me than ~constructive~ by other people's standards. I won't change for them. If that means no RP, then fuck it. I already said this thread can be closed anyway.

EDIT: Also, why should I not be abrasive? That's all I fucking got back before I actually went and did something to stop it from happening? I, of all people, have all the god damn right in the world to be abrasive given all that bullshit (which ok may=no RP, which is funny given the people who fucked with me get RP, but LOOOOLANSLOAMIRITE).

*pets sweet anskek* No, I think asking these questions, even with getting confused responses telling you it's not necessary is still totally worthwhile from a meta perspective. I've enjoyed reading the responses to this. It's constructive in its own way, thanks for de-necroing some of these threads for us noobs, they have been fun and encouraging. If that's what you like to do, "you do you", I say. That's the EVE way in the end.
_______
I'm going to reiterate that I think some of the problem is, as always, the expectation that if you aren't doing the right thing in EVE it is because you weren't thinking, which translates very quickly to 'dumb'. In a lot of cases - Has any of you had a parent that could not believe you didn't know how to do something because it was 'obvious'? I've heard this story quite a bit. Firstly, to most intelligent people lots of things are 'obvious' after they're pointed out, but sometimes the connection has to be made first. You want to kick yourself after of course, because obviously, but it's better if veterans anticipate that rather than shit on it. I like a lot of the suggestions posted to this thread. Maybe we could make a master post with some of these pointers of how to get involved?

I think we can still use people that don't have the pants and/or balls to do it themselves. I'd love to have those people, it makes for variety. What we're doing though, is thoroughly turning those people off. Not having enough FCs can still also be a problem of course. This is belling the cat. I'm willing to take on some content generation but I need some support, since I'm new.

I think LouDou has a point, too, and there was a thread recently about letting the noobs get their stories out of their systems, so to speak. The lore hasn't moved in a while - I think it's okay to rehash some things. Of course I say that as a new RPer, but...  That's not my fault. \o.o/

I think Aelisha has made some really interesting observations, too. I want to agree with raising 'awareness'. I mentioned recruiting and someone else mentioned that RP is not like a corp or alliance, but a playstyle. I know faction warfare recruits all day as a playstyle. Our players seem to be found everywhere going heeyyyyy you know what's great? We are so proud of ourselves it's almost ridiculous, and clearly one sided. There's plenty in FW that's boring. Some of it is preaching to the choir circlejerking and some of that makes people in Twitch channels join us. There's an inherent pride there though that I don't really feel from RPers. (Actually, I do sometimes! It seems to be hot and cold, rather than the blazing feels of militia). I think good energy is important. Everyone waffled on getting in on RP at some juncture, in some game. We should want to make it seem appealing. I think it's a great way to flavour the game, for example. I'm surprised at all the secret RPers in militia? I don't know how to connect with these people. It's possible they're solo RPing, just like some people solo mission. (So, that's cool o.o But my point is more that it actually has added value for your game!) I've basically been solo RPing this whole time myself, really.

I will totally agree with lack of FC. I think as FedRP, this might be a crux point. Many of these other groups have great, or at least prolific content creators behind them.  I'd do this more myself but it's difficult to know where to start. /jitters  Again, if anyone wants to help me get my bearings, I'm willing.  Dammit you Gallentes, if there was ever a bunch of cats to be herded, it's us. I don't think a single one of us has the same alignment.

(Also, I don't think fractured was quite meant the way a lot of people took it, but point taken anyway, I'd say.)

And, for the record, I hope people aren't just trying to 'win'? RP is ultimately cooperative. Even when you're fighting it's for the gud fites. If anything you want to arrange for material with the enemy, if there's nothing forthcoming. We've done it, it's great. When people refuse, it's pretty disappointing. We just want to play the game after all.  \o.o / You might stand to lose a little bit, but ultimately, everyone wins.

[Esna Pitoojee]

The counter point, and there is some amount of evidence of it on this forum, is that on several occasions someone does suggest doing something, and then a bunch of people pile on with statements like:
"this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in" - then why did you post ?

....

which only creates the impression of people wanting to stop others from RPing, for OOC reasons.

No Fun Allowed.

I just have to stick my head in here and say absolutely not.

When I say "this isn't something any of my characters would go to", I mean "...but it looks interesting so I'm making a post in your thread so you know that I've noticed and am supporting you." Very often I will say as much as well.

Really, if I think something is that dumb, I'll either try to pick it apart in a logical pattern or just not say anything to avoid breaking Backstage rules.