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[Elmund Egivand]

Elmund goes baselining for spare parts, salvage and coffee. Do those count?

Unless he's one of those people who are retarded stupid fucked in the head special enough to do their Black Friday shopping in the stores instead of online, I fail to see how that's even relevant.

He is special enough to actually shop for stuff in the same place baseline shipyard workers, gearheads, machinists and other assorted sprocket-loving monkeys do their shopping, even on the setting equivalent of Black Friday.

[Silas Vitalia]

Elmund goes baselining for spare parts, salvage and coffee. Do those count?

Unless he's one of those people who are retarded stupid fucked in the head special enough to do their Black Friday shopping in the stores instead of online, I fail to see how that's even relevant.

Can't resist.

[Aellos Lisetier]

For what its worth I tend to play Aellos as what I would imagine is a fairly standard capsuleer with occasional veering into the gun nut side of things: He can take care of himself whilst baselining: martial arts, firearms and basic melee weapon training (although that one is probably more of a hobby/fitness thing for him than necessarily common amongst all capsuleers but I imagine you might see it more in Amarrian capsuleers than say Caldari): he could take a baseliner who tried to mug him in a back alley to pieces owing to a capsuleer's sharpened reflexes and heightened perception but unless he got lucky would lose to a DUSTer and might well be evenly matched against even a baseliner soldier trained in CQC.

That said Aellos is definitely more of the opinion that if it's anything more serious than a bar brawl or boxing match your opponent should be dead before they know they're under attack: fights are chaotic and even the best soldier can make a mistake so better to have it finished before it's started, he's also definitely more on the Baselining side than the always in capsule type.

Part of this I should imagine is that *yes* Aellos can take on a baseliner one on one with no difficulty, maybe as many as three if they don't know how to fight together but even ten street toughs are going to wear him down by sheer force of numbers even if they're not that good at fighting.

[Vic Van Meter]

Maybe it's just different with guns for me.  I don't know a lot of people who have never fired a gun before in their lives.  I'm assuming that since most capsuleers have some kind of military background, firearms training isn't an option, it's a requirement.  Even if not, given how dystopian EVE is, I can't imagine a lot of people would be totally unfamiliar with them.

Martial arts may be a bit of a specialized subject, but I imagine a lot of Amarr have some egalitarian bladed combat styles learned, most Matari have a tribal fighting style, and there are subcultures where it's an important part of culture in other empires.  Even capsuleers get into brawls at bars.

[Makoto Priano]

Post-Heth, don't most Caldari have some sort of mandatory military training? I'm not sure the State necessarily imposes mandatory enlistment terms (need to reread TEA, and I will never, ever do that), but I wouldn't be surprised if different megas do have some sort of 'militia' element, in addition to basic drill during education/upbringing. I'm not sure there's any equivalent for Minnie, Gallente, or Amarr-- though I'm sure that most Amarr capsuleers are noble or wealthy, which implies either only ceremonial use of arms or none at all.

That said, with skills being loleasy for the first few levels, it'd be easy to see, say, 'security connections' including engrams for basic military drill. But yeah. Meh. I think there's an automatic assumption of Capsuleer = badass = guns, lots of guns a la Keanu Reeves.

A nifty idea: what about additional paranoia about baselining? Even with softclones, capsuleers exist in a world where suicide ganking is not only possible, but a frequent happening, a profession. Translate this to real life-- where if you're walking down a busy street, someone catching a glimpse of your wallet or shirt may go, "WORTH IT," and shoot you in full sight of the police.

[Arista Shahni]

Other than "baseline military training" which is rusty as fuck (which fortunately will not matter as it's hard to pull an aging hamstring in a young clone) Ari very loudly protests that she will not run unless chased, etc.

She's a capsuleer.  Getting out of the capsule to baseline seems pointless and backwards after a fashion, same as it does to 100,000+ other pilots who throw their toys out of the pram at Incarna.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Post-Heth, don't most Caldari have some sort of mandatory military training? I'm not sure the State necessarily imposes mandatory enlistment terms (need to reread TEA, and I will never, ever do that), but I wouldn't be surprised if different megas do have some sort of 'militia' element, in addition to basic drill during education/upbringing.

Pre-Heth too, actually. Compulsory military service was already an existing requirement in the State. You only get out of it if you qualify for something better early on.

[Silas Vitalia]

How much of today's violence resolved by 'martial arts skill' and how many by someone being shot?

People don't kung fu fight, they pull out a gun and shoot you.  People who have weapons use them, they don't stoop to physical hand to hand when they can blast you with 0 effort.

How much of today's military training is on 'hand to hand' and how much is on using machines?

How often do today's military EVER get into hand to hand fights with knives?

Hand-to-hand = completely useless in EVE unless you are modified and can take shots en route to target.

[Lunarisse Aspenstar]

How much of today's violence resolved by 'martial arts skill' and how many by someone being shot?

People don't kung fu fight, they pull out a gun and shoot you.  People who have weapons use them, they don't stoop to physical hand to hand when they can blast you with 0 effort.

How much of today's military training is on 'hand to hand' and how much is on using machines?

How often do today's military EVER get into hand to hand fights with knives?

Hand-to-hand = completely useless in EVE unless you are modified and can take shots en route to target.

In other words, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE

 

[Morwen Lagann]

How much of today's violence resolved by 'martial arts skill' and how many by someone being shot?

People don't kung fu fight, they pull out a gun and shoot you.  People who have weapons use them, they don't stoop to physical hand to hand when they can blast you with 0 effort.

How much of today's military training is on 'hand to hand' and how much is on using machines?

How often do today's military EVER get into hand to hand fights with knives?

Hand-to-hand = completely useless in EVE unless you are modified and can take shots en route to target.

In other words, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE

 

A classic scene that wasn't originally scripted that way, if you believe everything you read on Cracked. (I remember something about it being Ford's idea because he was ill and something else about shit-streams and pant stains?)

[Lyn Farel]

I'm with Silas.

People mostly practice martial arts for the hobby or spiritual well being or whatever. Or just the sport contest.

I have seen invoked the reason that "it's to stay in good shape". Then why arent we seeing more capsuleers just using more common (and a lot more effective to that effect) sport practice like jogging, or whatever high tech savyy sport people can imagine ? But instead, nope, just kung-fu variants of capsuleer pandas ?

Maybe it has a become a capsuleer fad, much like other fads they have ?

Maybe it's just different with guns for me.  I don't know a lot of people who have never fired a gun before in their lives.  I'm assuming that since most capsuleers have some kind of military background, firearms training isn't an option, it's a requirement.  Even if not, given how dystopian EVE is, I can't imagine a lot of people would be totally unfamiliar with them.

Martial arts may be a bit of a specialized subject, but I imagine a lot of Amarr have some egalitarian bladed combat styles learned, most Matari have a tribal fighting style, and there are subcultures where it's an important part of culture in other empires.  Even capsuleers get into brawls at bars.

Well, yeah, it's different depending where one lives. I don't know anyone that has even fired a gun before and the only guns I have seen in my life are the ones displayed (without any ammo) by the military patrolling in major train stations... But since Eve is dystopian by definition, it might be rather common to see weapons, but again, I would question where ?

I highly doubt that commoners are allowed to carry a lot of personal firearms in the Amarr Empire for example, or even in the Caldari State... I have a hard time to see imperial subjects allowed to be armed, and even less Caldari citizens, except maybe with a reserve weapon locked somewhere for military duty or something... In the Federation, there will of course be all kinds of situations, from far west cowboys to clinical alpha cities where people have never seen a weapon in their life...

[orange]

How much of today's violence resolved by 'martial arts skill' and how many by someone being shot?

People don't kung fu fight, they pull out a gun and shoot you.  People who have weapons use them, they don't stoop to physical hand to hand when they can blast you with 0 effort.

How much of today's military training is on 'hand to hand' and how much is on using machines?

How often do today's military EVER get into hand to hand fights with knives?

Hand-to-hand = completely useless in EVE unless you are modified and can take shots en route to target.

Combatives

Knowing how to fight with a blade, grapple, kick, punch, etc is pretty useful if you are concerned about fighting in tight confines.  Turning a corner and walking right into a hostile does not give you much time to aim.  It may be faster and more effective to throw the butt of the weapon (with your elbow behind it) into the hostile's face.

In close-quarters combat, anything available becomes a weapon.

In Eve, on space stations or in urban cities, the size of spaces will vary as it does today.  The highly trained security specialist, infantry, marine, etc will likely have combatives training.

[Lyn Farel]

I have not read the entirety of the article so pardon me if I say something wrong here but I read :

To educate soldiers on how to protect themselves against threats without using their firearms
To provide a non-lethal response to situations on the battlefield
To instill the 'warrior instinct' to provide the necessary aggression to meet the enemy unflinchingly

Which to me is barely applicable to capsuleers... Except maybe the last point. Which kind of joins the only point I find really worth it : that it's more mental discipline before everything else.

[Katrina Oniseki]

How often do today's military EVER get into hand to hand fights with knives?

I have a friend who's on his second tour in Afghanistan. He's already had to resort to using some sort of fancy tomahawk looking thing in a close quarters fight during a house raid once. The other guy grabbed his rifle as he turned into the hallway from around the corner and came at him, and he had to resolve the situation using the only tool he could reach.

EDIT: On further reading, it was pretty much what orange mentioned.

[Vic Van Meter]

I have not read the entirety of the article so pardon me if I say something wrong here but I read :

To educate soldiers on how to protect themselves against threats without using their firearms
To provide a non-lethal response to situations on the battlefield
To instill the 'warrior instinct' to provide the necessary aggression to meet the enemy unflinchingly

Which to me is barely applicable to capsuleers... Except maybe the last point. Which kind of joins the only point I find really worth it : that it's more mental discipline before everything else.

That assumes your capsuleer never leaves the capsule for any reason to do anything.  Especially if capsuleers are incredibly competitive and violent, it's not entirely inconceivable that they'd like to punch people every now and then or that combat sports would be their favorite way to stay fit.

I'd also assume that if you've ever done ship-boarding combat, you aren't just skilled in hand-to-hand combat, but you've probably used it.  At close ranges, you can't rely on firearms.  That's why police officers are almost universally skilled in hand-to-hand combat of some kind or another.  You've got more cause to use it.

If anything, Pieter can probably snap arms in half having been a cop for so long.