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[Casiella]

Being an uncle is awesome. At least half of the fun stuff from being a dad and almost none of the actual responsibility.

Usually.

[Kaldor Mintat]

Well, in truth i was already an uncle....uhm...6 times. But those where my halfsiblings children from dads 2 first marriages and as all the halfsiblings was alot older than me (my oldest halfsister is just 3 years younger than my mom...) all of the nephews/nieces, except 1, are older than me.....

so this one feels more real, if that is the right way to say it.

[Wanoah]

Here's another idea that should be punctured, the idea that childbirth is a miracle. I don't know who started this rumor but it's not a miracle. No more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out of your butt. It's a chemical reaction and a biological reaction. You want to know a miracle? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk in a fucking movie theater . . . I'll go you one further, and this is the routine that has virtually ended my career in America. If you have children here tonight—and I assume some of you do—I am sorry to tell you this. They are not special. I'll let that sink in. Don't get me wrong, folks. I know you think they're special. I'm aware of that. I'm just trying to tell you—they're not. Did you know that every time a guy comes, he comes 200 million sperm? Did you know that? And you mean to tell me you think your child is special? Because one out of 200 million sperm connected . . . that load? Gee, what are the fucking odds? Do you know what that means? I have wiped entire civilizations off of my chest, with a grey gym sock. That is special. Entire nations have flaked and crusted in the hair around my navel. That is special. And I want you to think about that, you two-egg-carrying beings out there with that holier-than-thou, we-have-the-gift-of-life attitude. I have tossed universes, in my underpants, while napping. That is special.

 

Bill Hicks. <3

[Zuzanna Alondra]

Well, in truth i was already an uncle....uhm...6 times. But those where my halfsiblings children from dads 2 first marriages and as all the halfsiblings was alot older than me (my oldest halfsister is just 3 years younger than my mom...) all of the nephews/nieces, except 1, are older than me.....

so this one feels more real, if that is the right way to say it.

Don't feel bad about that as much - it's normal to feel more attached to family that's closer to you.  My half sister had a baby five year ago now and my parents weren't all that excited because they never see her and my nephew and she never really talks to them.

But when I said Lisa was coming - the world was tipped upside down and they were so happy you wouldn't believe it.  My dad is very proud to be a grandpa.  Should he feel bad that he was more excited about Lisa then Ethan?  No... because he sees Lisa and me more.  Feelings are what they are.

[Z.Sinraali]

Don't feel bad about that as much - it's normal to feel more attached to family that's closer to you.

[yelling evolutionary biologist]BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE OF YOUR GENES. THAT MEANS YOU ARE MORE INVESTED IN THEIR SURVIVAL.[/yelling evolutionary biologist]

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

Kids are a pain to be around for extended periods. They can be alright. Some are downright great, some are irritating.

Honest to god, though, 1) If you have a big family and cannot provide for them, I'm taking your fucking zygotes with a pair of rusty pliars, 2) the divorce rates and abuse prevention systems in the west are pure shit, and 3) nothing is sacred; nobody is entitled to anything.

People don't like to be humble in the west. People make silly demands, or act up when there's no accountability, or do other stupidly human things.

I have - I should say, had, - this one roomate. She's moving out this Friday. She has a child. I think the poor kid's going to be more fucked up than me when he grows up because of her antics. I can't take that shit.

Also, don't push your stupid shit on your kids. The goal is to pass on less of your bias, bad manners, insanity, and baggage - not more.

[Casiella]

Kids are a pain to be around for extended periods. They can be alright. Some are downright great, some are irritating.

This is true for all sufficiently large groups of humans, isn't it? Hell, it's true for every individual over time: we all have good days and bad days. We all know people who are just awesome human beings that make us proud of our species, and we know weasels who don't deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of us.

I don't know what the divorce rates are like in Russia and Asia, but I do know that the oft-cited rates ("half of all marriages end in divorce!") don't match reality. From that article:

The 50 percent divorce rate is really a myth. The 20-year divorce rate for couples who got married in the 1980s is actually around 19 percent. Everyone thinks marriage is such a struggle and it’s shocking to hear that marriage is actually going strong today. It has to do with how you look at the statistic. If the variables were constant, then a simple equation might work to come up with the divorce rate. But a lot of things are changing. And it is true that there are groups of people who have a 50 percent divorce rate: college dropouts who marry under the age of 25, for example. Couples married in the 1970s have a 30-year divorce rate of about 47 percent. A person who got married in the 1970s had a completely different upbringing and experience in life from someone who got married in the 1990s. It's been very clear that divorce rates peaked in the 1970s and has been going down ever since.

And true, every parent's "goal is to pass on less of your bias, bad manners, insanity, and baggage - not more." But you have to recognize your biases and baggage in the first place, because (in the linked example) that person clearly thinks she's imparting strong values and an important belief structure. I happen to agree with you that she needs help, but she herself almost certainly doesn't recognize that, or at least not in this context. FWIW, the answer chosen as "best" there is probably what I'd have written, though with some substantial theological differences (not all "Christians" hold the same views on things like hell). But yeah, she's the sort of person that gives the rest of us a bad name.

Anyway, in general, if a man said the sorts of things about women that some folks (not Ashar, I hasten to add) say about kids, he'd be labeled a "misogynist" or worse, and rightly so. That's the core problem I have with the discourse around kids that many people throw out there.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

Casi, honest to God, I think you're forum-stalking me.

This is true for all sufficiently large groups of humans, isn't it?

Precisely the point, yes.

I don't know what the divorce rates are like in Russia and Asia...

As a Russian expatriate, I have to tell you, I kind of consider it part of the west. However, perhaps 'core states' or 'first and second world' would have served better.

As for the marriage bits - it's not that they're below fifty or even twenty percent. If it was enough to get a divorce rate below fifty percent or twenty percent to generate good lives for the majority of children born of troubled marriages - or even whatever we consider normal in marriages - we would be makin' it.

It's that they are above ten percent, and that single parents are above five percent of parents - including uncounted parents; illegals, people in a parental role without legal guardianship, et cetera.

If you tell me these groups are not a significant portion of the population and that their actions have only a minor affect that we might ignore on the quality of life of the children brought up by them - children whose quality of life will decide how they in turn affect the quality of life of others in society - and you tell me this in a national dialectic where a ten percent unemployment rate, setting aside structural unemployment, spells disaster, I will throw back my head and laugh until well after every cow has come home.

Bad parenting, by circumstance or scarcity or ineptitude, is the new infant mortality rate.

[Casiella]

Casi, honest to God, I think you're forum-stalking me.

Nah, I just have a passion for this thread and topic for RL reasons beyond just my belief in the title.

Bad parenting, by circumstance or scarcity or ineptitude, is the new infant mortality rate.

I generally agree with the sentiment behind this statement and the rest of the post, although I'd note that some kids can overcome much of the effects of bad parenting.

* Casiella is one of them, and suspects so are a lot of people here.

[Mathra Hiede]

Being myself, the eldest son in my family, and yet the 2nd youngest in my generation I am at the point where I can see both sides, with enough clarity to be at least somewhat impartial
(And yes, that makes me really quite young in comparison to alot of you, don't make an assumption I will simply proove you wrong if you do)

Kids, yeah sure - its a gift and a privilege to be able to bear and raise a child but for gods sake, as has been mentioned before, the idea is to give the child a better chance at life than you yourself had, to pass on less crap and make the world better for them.

Alot of the problems with fucking annoying shitty kids is the way they are raised, almost entirely. (Exceptions do apply, though they are rare and far between)
For example, myself and my younger brother where raised with the steadfast beliefs that you "Do un to others as you would have them do un to you" and "Every action has a consequence" which are two core things that I simply see missing in alot of people my age and older even.

Something else is that I was never treated like a child, in the sense that if there was a problem when I was younger for any reason, my mother/father would simply sit down and explain it to me like anyone else - none of the goo goo gaa gaa bullshit after you can start to think for yourself (I can't remember exact dates, my memory aint that good)

On the topic of actually being able to cope with them? Mostly, younger children and I get along really well, although I recognise personally, I don't have the patience to be around them for rather long as my temper has a tendency to snap after the fifth-sixth annoyingly silly joke kids love to play thus I don't want to try and put myself in a position where I would do something stupid and endlessly regret that for the rest of my life.

That may change, people say you mellow with age... but hey, I have enough time to completely flip and become a pathetic soft teddy bear for all I know... which if you believe Hitome I am anyway XD

[Zuzanna Alondra]

@ the divorce rate side topic: Interestingly enough part of what makes that 50% so high is the chronic remarriages.  Example - "This is Bob - he's my forth husband; but I know he's for keeps because of..... *insert list* but I was smart this time and made hm sign prenuptial papers so I won't be screwed when it ends..."  *snickers a bit*  Divorce will happen if you believe it an option.

@ the infant mortality topic crack: I know a mom who worked as an emergency foster care Mom for infants.  The stories are heart breaking.  I seriously hope I'm doing a decent job; but I can see how someone that didn't want children or are too young... it's awful.

@"Don't push stupid shit on you kids": Homeschooling can be good?  But one gift I feel my mom gave me growing up was the freedom to explore religious beliefs on my own.  While I'm still going to have my daughter blessed, once she's old enough to understand religion, the odds of her going to church on Sundays will likely go down until her very late teens if at all and I'm grateful for that.  Jack ftw?

@Kids can overcome bad parenting: I believe it was Havohej who gave me the following parenting advice, "No matter how good you do your kids going to be sitting in a shrink's hair someday saying what you did wrong, so don't stress too much."

I think that's all the tasty bits.

[Wanoah]

I can only quote the late, great Philip Larkin at this juncture.

This Be The Verse

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.   
    They may not mean to, but they do.   
They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,   
Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

[Casiella]

And I thought I was cynical.

[Zuzanna Alondra]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/huggies-jean-diapers-makes-jeggings-seem-normal/

I don't know if I should laugh, be offended or be shocked.

[Wanoah]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/huggies-jean-diapers-makes-jeggings-seem-normal/

I don't know if I should laugh, be offended or be shocked.

I personally went with slightly disgusted.