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[Zuzanna Alondra]

Parenting is an interesting thing. I have so many thoughts about that whole issue that I would end up monopolizing this thread and driving it down a different road entirely.

Summary: "kids are good."

Since Casiella didn't want to pull the thread this post was made on off-topic - let's start a new thread.  *smiles*  Hopefully she finds this to finish her thought.

For context in the original thread there was a mild derail discussing why people don't have to have children just because their families want babies and why I feel there is little to no reason non-"standard" couples can have kids.

But also let this be a fun place for general parenting ideas too - us parents need a social life too.

My two month old just got back from her "well-child-checkup" and had to get several shots, but after a few alligator tears is all better and sleeping.  I'll try to get a cute picture of my baby up later.  Should it be required by law for children to have these shots (USA) and or is it required in other countries curious?

There's two ideas - have fun.

[Casiella]

I am very firmly in the pro-vaccine camp, and that's even after someone in my wife's family was affected negatively by them, because I know about how many more kids suffered (and died) due to preventable childhood diseases.

So my thoughts on having children tend towards the very old-fashioned, in a sense. Generally speaking, and at the risk of accidentally offending someone here: I don't get along too well with the sort of person who doesn't like kids. I understand many people have good reasons not to have children of their own: health risks, other life commitments, infertility, etc. But the sort of person who says "I never want crotchspawn because of what it'll do to my body or because I can't travel or because I just don't like kids" always rubs me the wrong way.

This has nothing to do whatsoever with gay and straight, obviously. Many of my gay friends, and my sister (who is in a same-sex marriage) love children. Some of them adopt, some of them have children from a prior relationship, or have kids through various other arrangements. Even those who never have their own frequently turn out to be awesome uncles and aunts or godparents, and that's cool in my book too.

Loving children is a part of being human, and a part I'd never want to see us give up as a species.

Personally (and I understand this won't hold true for everyone), becoming a father has made me a better man in virtually every way. I've never worked as hard, never despaired as much -- and I've never had as much fun or as much satisfaction. And mine are still small!

[Zuzanna Alondra]

It's hard to be sad when your holding a smiling baby.

It's also hard to pictures someone who truly doesn't like kids, my mom swore she wasn't a baby person, until she held Lisa.

But it'd be interesting to hear the other viewpoint.

[Shae Tiann]

I like kids, and kids generally tend to like me.

But having grown up the oldest of three kids and third-oldest of 16 grandchildren, and regularly working in the church nursery to escape the sermons, I've changed more than my share of diapers, cleaned more than my share of spills and puke puddles, and been on the verge of tearing my hair out as two kids fight over the same toy enough times that I know I do not want kids of my own. I don't have the patience for it.

And in response to babies, I think this sums my sentiments up fairly well. Yes, babies are cute. That doesn't mean I'm going to go running over to every pram and carriage cooing and making idiot noises. The way my brother does, heaven help us 

[Casiella]

LOL, I think I love that.

[Wanoah]

I loathe children.

The loathing isn't always entirely mutual. They sometimes try to torture me by attempting to interact, despite the DO NOT WANT vibe I generate at all times. Not good.

The loathing was once something that was comparatively academic. I simply inhabited a world in which children didn't exist and it was good. Now I'm in my mid-thirties, however, I have witnessed friend after friend fall into the parent trap, and it is very sad. Even the best of people becomes a Child Bore, for whom nothing else exists or matters other than their terrible spawn. In a number of cases, I have pretty much gone, "OK. Fine. You have a mewling shitbucket now. I'll see you in about 16 years, k?"

It probably wouldn't be so bad if I could at least tolerate the children, but I can't. I don't see anything adorable about them. They are ugly and they smell. They make noise. They have nothing to say that I'm interested in hearing. So I am resigned to effectively shedding friends as a result, because there's no way my social calendar has room for children's birthday parties, and there's really not much space for a parent to have any kind of life when their children are very young.

And yes, the aforementioned social calendar is a lot emptier than it used to be.

[lallara zhuul]

I am a bit ambivalent about children.

They're okay.

But in no way are they interesting or generate any kind of cuddly feelings in me.

I would guess that if I would have a 'crotchspawn' of my own, things would be different.

Right now I am just not working under those hormones.

[Zuzanna Alondra]

Wanoah - Wow, I hadn't realized how much time kids do take, I'm sorry to hear you've lost so many friends over the years from a lack of interest in children and admire being brave enough to step up and post about it.

Kinda of a sobering reminder to try to call some of my friends more often.

The good thing is that you realize your not a kid person and don't try to make yourself be.

lallara - Yeah... it's different when their your own.  There's a huge instant bond of love there that makes it to where you can tolerate the fact that you can't pass them off to someone else when their crying.  Well... except I do often, I make Daddy change his fair share of diapers when he's home.

[Casiella]

I frequently recycle a (paraphrased) line from Law & Order, of all places:

"I'm not 'babysitting', I'm taking care of my kids. That's being a dad.'

[Wanoah]

Kinda of a sobering reminder to try to call some of my friends more often.

Well, time is an issue, and I think everyone does understand that. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though.

Still, yes, it is definitely worth making an effort with friends, because time with adults (and possibly adults that aren't only talking about their kids, because that is another trap right there: couples who acquire sprogs and then only socialise with other couples with sprogs too :/) is pretty valuable when you're spending a lot (most) of your time on childcare. I also suspect that people tend to fall into that mid-life crisis trap because they are too focused on one thing and suddenly realise that they've missed out on a bunch of other stuff without realising.

[Casiella]

That's what I have you guys for.

[Zuzanna Alondra]

I will admit that I use Eve for adult companionship during nap time.

[Kala]

Here's another idea that should be punctured, the idea that childbirth is a miracle. I don't know who started this rumor but it's not a miracle. No more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out of your butt. It's a chemical reaction and a biological reaction. You want to know a miracle? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk in a fucking movie theater . . . I'll go you one further, and this is the routine that has virtually ended my career in America. If you have children here tonight—and I assume some of you do—I am sorry to tell you this. They are not special. I'll let that sink in. Don't get me wrong, folks. I know you think they're special. I'm aware of that. I'm just trying to tell you—they're not. Did you know that every time a guy comes, he comes 200 million sperm? Did you know that? And you mean to tell me you think your child is special? Because one out of 200 million sperm connected . . . that load? Gee, what are the fucking odds? Do you know what that means? I have wiped entire civilizations off of my chest, with a grey gym sock. That is special. Entire nations have flaked and crusted in the hair around my navel. That is special. And I want you to think about that, you two-egg-carrying beings out there with that holier-than-thou, we-have-the-gift-of-life attitude. I have tossed universes, in my underpants, while napping. That is special.

 

[Akikio L]

Summing up my view a bit sharply; kids may be good but the world is pretty bad. 

[Kaldor Mintat]

I like kids most of the time but then again i have none of my own so i do not need to do any of the "dirty"work.

That might change now though that i have become an uncle...my sister got alot of dirt on me and probably will use that for blackmailing me into assisting her now and again...