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[Silver Night]

Well, that is kinda the stuff that Aurora used to do. And it is quite possible they might go a similar route. With the actors (and obviously NPCs) being flagged as attackable, though, what often happened in practice is they all got wiped by whoever was nearby. There were exceptions, though.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Well the slick resolution to that (and mind you they could have had the Sansha faction doing the same thing and working to gather assistance from capsuleers with promises of fame, fortune, and power and whatnot, but starting in nullsec and moving towards lowsec, with the Slave (insert number here) triggering the wormhole event from the anamoly in question upon its arrival) would be to have the attackable/not attackable or damageable/not damageable flag be something a console command could toggle on and off, and simply toggle it the other way upon the opening of the wormhole and the beginning of the event anew.

Put the focus on the players not the spawned entities.

And further more put the focus on dividing the players and not on uniting the players.

I find that making people choose sides would also add a burst to the dynamism of the roleplay and alliance strategies cluster wide (from both an RP and non-RP standpoint on this aspect).

[Silver Night]

I agree that factions would be nice. It is early days, yet, though.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Personally, I am not one that believes in "starting off small" with something of this nature.

The playerbase is generally disillusioned about events based on the wake of AURORA and the bits and pieces of nonsense that we all heard about dealing with what it was doing wrong.

Why start off small and work your way back up?

Why not start it off with a massive, earth-shattering explosion to say "Forget what your cynicism about AURORA tells you. Now it will be different! WELCOME TO EVE!!"?

Otherwise those who have a bitter taste in their mouth from the ineffectiveness of AURORA will see this and go "Oh great, more of the same."

Which I somehow suspect was not the goal.

[Silver Night]

Possibly they have limited resources in terms of people to commit to this.

Edit: To clarify, not that I think this was a perfect event, by any means. Given the limited information we have, it seems like they could have done better, and gotten more player involvement. But the info we have is limited, so I'm thinking that giving them a chance to get a couple of events under their belt isn't a bad idea.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Possibly.

Though; given the proper tools, the event would only require 1 personnel per actor after the initial planning and setup.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Hindsight is 20/20, but what seems to be the issue here is that instead of treating the pirate factions as another faction, they've been reduced to a role of a antagonist against the players. So instead of 'fight with concord or help the sansha invasion', the players are left with 'fight the ebil sansha'.

And to be honest this all fits in with the mechanics of the game, except for the fact that you can do missions for these pirate entities. It's not like, with standings, the belt spawns won't suddenly appear green to you once you've gotten high enough in standings and stop attacking; they will always attack.

What might have been interesting is if the sansha had approached some of the 0.0 entities out in their space, like CONCORD had done with one of the players, and said, "hey look we're gonna go attack the empires, you might keeping a lookout at our staging base just outside the wormhole until we come back?". Then the invasion gets repelled and the ded says, "Go in there and gettem!" and we have some player conflict and drawn sides.


I'm just thinking outside of the box here, but that would be helluva lot more encouraging for battles and interactive events overall....

[Silver Night]

I really hope that the whole 'good and evil' thing isn't where CCP is heading. Really hoping.

I know that at least part of the people behind the storyline don't seem to be capable of that sort of complex storytelling in a simple written format, much less a dynamic format. Not naming any names. 

I'm hopeful that that is only part of the team responsible for this stuff, though.

[Lillith Blackheart]

My cynicism and past experiences both in this game and others (which had both entirely superior complex writers and entirely inferior) do not allow me such hope.

[Wanoah]

This is an interesting development. I think it's somewhat safe to assume that many of the current dev now team are ex-ISD types that were involved in the old events back in the day. This means that they'll have a pretty firm grasp on what works and what doesn't. We can also hope that the available tools have been improved a little.

You can't please everyone, and on a single server, it's next to impossible to create events that will touch everyone. This stuff is always going to be for a minority, but with the side effect that it has ramifications beyond the scope of the actual event itself. You always know that getting involved is a possibility, and that is in itself an enticing prospect, even if you never actually do get involved in an event personally.

If you have any belief in the tenet of 'show, don't tell' in storytelling, then in gaming that applies tenfold. It's all very well for people to write chronicles and news articles, but these things will always pale next to the prospect of seeing, doing and influencing yourself. That is something that has been denied Eve players for a long time now. We missed out on a lot of good stuff. Eve was a poorer place without its events team and its dedicated volunteers. It was much less interesting. Sure, some of the events were shit. Some were ill-conceived from the outset. Some were purely self-serving enterprises to make rich people richer. There was corruption. There was also massive overreaction to the corruption. There was wilful ignorance. There was the more usual ignorance that you can expect from any large group of idiots people on the Internet too. Toys were thrown out of prams. I don't blame CCP for cutting their losses in the face of the disgusting rivers of tears, but at the same time, they were schooled by a small group of vocal trolls and the rest of us suffered for it.

Yes, Eve is PvP. That is its strength. It separates it from the sheep grazing on endless WoW pastures ad nauseam. Yet, the players still seem to exist in their own bubble, and interactions with the world itself, where they do occur, are abstracted to the point of being inconsequential. Actual PvE is as meaningless as it is possible to be beyond creating money for players. It mostly stretches credibility to somewhere far beyond breaking point. There's quite the disconnect between the supposed power of player groups and their actual ability to change anything at all in the world. I would think that the grail for Eve would be a future game world that changes dynamically according to what is taking place within it, and live events offer the tiniest taste of that possibility. Bring it.

[Casiella]

To add to what Wanoah said (and I generally agree with it): just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Didn't someone say this stuff was happening in Stain too?  Where exactly should they be doing these events if they want to open them up to Sansha supporters?  Because I think unless they hit every single region, it's going to be impossible to make sure everyone has a chance.  I think you need to accept that the events are going to be limited in scope just because they only have a certain number of people to run things.

Besides, the real value is not just in the people who get to participate directly -- it's all the people they talk to and say "Man, I was in this cool event where X and Y happened, check it out!"  From a purely business perspective, anyway, which is one of the big factors in whether CCP decides these are worth continuing to pursue I'm guessing.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Didn't someone say this stuff was happening in Stain too

Got a link for that? The only reference to that I found throughout everything was one of the DED Dossiers that were leaked mentioned an increase in comms traffic in the Gallente Quarter of Stain.

There was nothing in any of the information I've found of any actual events happening there.

To add to what Wanoah said (and I generally agree with it): just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't happen

You're making a fallacy of extension here. You're implying that since I denounce poor planning and ineffective outreach that I am stating that the goal is perfection.

This is patently not true.

I will even go one further, the scripts that I saw were fucking terrible.

To wit:

[17:21:14 ] Silonneri Balginia > What the hell are these brainless bastards doing here?
[17:21:55 ] Silonneri Balginia > I think they're coming in through that wormhole
[17:22:06 ] Reimina Muar > Confirm, Caldari Navy, does the wormhole exhibit two-way connectivity?
[17:22:14 ] Silonneri Balginia > For the glory of the Republic!
[17:22:47 ] Slave 32152 > Nation will not tolerate resistance.
[17:23:28 ] Silonneri Balginia > Watch out for more reinforcements. I don't think this is the last of them
[17:23:40 ] Silonneri Balginia > By the Elders - that's a lot of Nightmares
[17:24:03 ] Reimina Muar > Capsuleers; Weapons free, weapons free, engage! Planet 4 is under attack by Sansha forces!
[17:24:37 ] Silonneri Balginia > I can't take them on my own here, mates. I need my fellow Republic pilots to push them back!
[17:25:24 ] Silonneri Balginia > We have to protect this system
[17:26:03 ] Silonneri Balginia > I'm sending probes through that wormhole. Something's different here...
[17:26:47 ] Reimina Muar > Any confirmed Sansha kills will be rewarded per the bounty system, fully endorsed by CONCORD.
[17:27:18 ] Silonneri Balginia > These brainless bastards are giving us quite the fight
[17:27:40 ] Slave 32152 > Capsuleers are weak. Heirs ot a mistake. We are the correction.

First of all, despite the glaring bastardization of english which we can attest to a typo, except unlike most typos I can't for the life of me figure out what it's supposed to say. The script is... ugh.

Moving on to this being the best they can come up with in the forum??

It is already too late.

All that remains now is for you to accept this simple fact.

"It is already cliche. All that remains now is for this to be a big fucking joke."

Thankfully I saw one breath of fresh air and well done bit from CCP as Koja Tsutariba. That was well written.

What I'm saying is not that it isn't perfect. Perfection is inaccessible. What I'm saying is this is like Uwe Boll doing Phantom of the Opera.

We have an event that wasn't well designed for community outreach from an entity that is notoriously bad at it. Which is fine from a business sense. They're making their game the way they want it. What the community wants isn't relevant unless they're going to stop giving them money. As they have not in countless perceived nerfs, they can pretty much continue on course.

However when you're making community events this is unacceptable. If you're trying to engage the community, then engage the fucking community. If you want people to feel like they're important and have an impact on the story, make a complex story and bloody well include large chunks of the player base.

This is the typical "we're going to spawn lots of mobs for getting slaughtered with nothing but a cliche'd invasion story that will expand out.... maybe unless we just get bored and drop off to another story while leaving these ends loose" crap that AURORA always did.

Now that it is inhouse, you would think they would have more leeway.

There's quite the disconnect between the supposed power of player groups and their actual ability to change anything at all in the world. I would think that the grail for Eve would be a future game world that changes dynamically according to what is taking place within it

Then in order to do this, knowing full well that this is what people want, why would you A. Focus it on Empire players only, whom I would suggest are less ambitious or have ambitions different from causing major change in the world, and B. Only allow one side to have any sort of impact?

That is not dynamic. That's putting a story on a rail and letting the players jump in and pretend they have any impact on the inevitable outcome that has already been preplanned.

In the short term? Sure, people will think it's cool.

In the long term? People will see it for the hollow, shattered promise it is, and have less and less concern about whether or not they get to be involved.

Sound familiar? Perhaps like some other entity that used to do this?

Hmmm...

[Casiella]

A recent post in the same thread from the devs indicated they'd heard the feedback and were including it future planning. Given it's been two days since they announced anything publicly, I'm comfortable with that.

If it's still like that at the end of the summer, then I'll assume it's gone the way of FW and feel sad. Until then, or until events warrant otherwise, I will continue to maintain my optimism.

[Silver Night]

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