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[Graelyn]

This is why I encourage our mods to consider action based on habits of behavior, and not single incidents.

Sometimes it gets forgotten. We try.

[Halete]

Isn't really a problem I've seen. I can see how it would become immersion breaking quickly if it was a common thing. Yeah, your kids wandered onto the feed. It happens, you know? But it's a one-off.

For instance, maybe you accidentally end up nude on camera. Woah, boy. Embarrassing! But it happens to people. Now back when these slips were happening on a daily basis... then yes, it also got extremely immersion breaking.

I'd suggest to lean on the side of - if you think it'll be disruptive and also nonconstructive, don't do it.

The reasons these 'slips' happen on a daily basis is because each individual person 'only does it once'. While it's the first and only time for their character, it's the umpteenth time for the channel. So you have an unrealistic frequency of nudity slips or kids on the feed.

Nothing happens literally by chance in roleplay. It happens by choice.

Yes, precisely.

People think 'Oh, well I've never done x before, how bad could it be?'

Which is why I urge people to learn on the side of caution with anything like that. Because if you think of it, a dozen other people probably did, too.

[Ollie]

Like I said, Immersion-breaking.

I'm having difficulty figuring out ways or reasons why an 8-year old would have access to, or even know how to interphase with capsuleer broadcast equipment, or even have the proper implants. 

Kids adapt more quickly to the technology around them than adults ever seem to predict they will. My kid's three years old, can't read properly yet.

But he's been surrounded by and using smartphones and tablets since he was about 12 months old. He knows how to pick up three different styles of smart phones, flick to whatever he wants to use on them and get on with things. Ditto with our tablets and laptops. He knows our phone numbers and gets his shits and giggles by dialling them to laugh at us. I taught him our numbers because I thought it'd be cute/funny and besides, he'd never be able to remember or use them in any real way until 'much later on', right? Stupid me.

What he'll be capable of doing by 8 years old with the technology he's grown up using gives me cause to worry.

[Seriphyn]

Being the owner of one of these characters, I can offer a [biased] perspective. I notice there's two types of child characters; one as a plot device, the other as just another character. Admittedly, and this 2008-09 era, Anette started out as a trampy plot device character. Then, over time, she became her own. I, too, dislike "plot device child characters" (like targets for parent sympathy, or kidnapping), but I keep it to myself, since I'm not sure if it would come out as hypocritical.

My idea with Anette (developments coming soon) is to make her into a sort of Major Interstellar Player, in the style of a capsuleer, just within the baseliner world, which in turn justifies her presence amongst eggers. I know we have our stereotypes of RL actors/actresses in Hollywood, but it's inferred heavily that in the Gallente Federation, they are much more respected and sometimes honoured individuals who can wield a lot of power.

[Uraniae]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that it's totally a good idea to have a toddler streak across the feed sometime, thereby combining the children issue and the nudity issue into one massive drama bomb.


In all seriousness this does make me wonder about something.  Are there any actual references, clear or inferred, about age requirements regarding capsuleer implantation?  There are some obvious biological reasons why it would be A Bad Idea to try and implant cybernetics into the still developing brain of a child, but really are there any official lore stipulations in this area?

We're talking about some very advanced medical and electronics technology in the EVE universe, and there are certainly enough Bad People out there that would be perfectly happy to turn a (comparatively easily controlled) child into one of the most versatile and effective weapons in human history to date.  Even taking a decidedly less sinister route I think it's also reasonable to assume it's only a matter of time before the genetic lottery pays out a genius child that is also capsule compatible.  Along the latter line it does seem improbable yet plausible that perhaps a rather gifted Caldari child could demonstrate understanding of the ramifications and be talented enough to warrant being allowed to train and pilot a capsule much earlier than the average pilot.

Ignoring the technical and medical complications for a bit, it also wouldn't be the first time the idea of using children, conditioned from birth, to try to create some new crop of "super soldier."  I imagine a fair number of us have seen films, read books, or watched shows where similar ideas were played out.

[Matariki Rain]

Ignoring the technical and medical complications for a bit, it also wouldn't be the first time the idea of using children, conditioned from birth, to try to create some new crop of "super soldier."  I imagine a fair number of us have seen films, read books, or watched shows where similar ideas were played out.

Very Ender's Game.

I don't know.

I could come up with rationales either way.

Given:
-- current thinking about the brain partially rewiring itself during the teenage years, and
-- that I don't think we've had an official word on whether "clones" grow (from the descriptions of how they're made I'd guess they wear out/age (oddly?) but don't "grow up")
there could be very good reasons for avoiding doing this stuff to youngsters if you care about them growing into adults.

If the situation seemed dire enough, I doubt that would be an issue. I don't know why they'd then be hanging around socialising, though.

Alternatively, given degradation of relexes after a certain age, I could imagine there's a peak time when you might qualify for the training and implants, and that if your pattern wasn't taken during that time you'd be over the hill.

... but we're weird and rare and they seem to train any nutbar who's able to take the implants without mindlock.

The storyline team's approach seems to be "What would make for good stories?". Maybe ask them.

[Reyd Karris]

Question: Why would you hook a child up to technology that has a good chance of making the child catatonic, and can only be fully utilized by putting the child in mortal danger?

Aside from some twisted mind-screwing secret group that would make Cerberus look like the Red Cross, well... why? Why would you do that to a kid? The difference between Capsuleer neural rigging and, say, Ender's Game is that in Ender's Game the children weren't sent into a situation that would lead to their death.

That said, the Neocom is a completely different technology. It's like a cell phone. My 4 y.o. niece has a cell phone (which actually turned out to be useful when a caregiver had a seizure). Neocoms are probably used for all sorts of nifty things, unrelated to Capsuleer tech; just like cloning, fluid routers, and a whole host of other technologies. Capsuleers just use a communications network controlled and operated for the sole use of Capsuleers, maintained by the CRC.

So... while capsuleer children seems so, so wrong, having a child with Neocom access is perfectly reasonable.

[Natalcya Katla]

Question: Why would you hook a child up to technology that has a good chance of making the child catatonic, and can only be fully utilized by putting the child in mortal danger?

Aside from some twisted mind-screwing secret group that would make Cerberus look like the Red Cross, well... why? Why would you do that to a kid? The difference between Capsuleer neural rigging and, say, Ender's Game is that in Ender's Game the children weren't sent into a situation that would lead to their death.

Well, for one thing, EVE has no shortage of mind-screwing secret or not-so-secret groups, several of which might be tempted to create and utilize child soldiers if given the opportunity. I'd say this includes the Empires - they'd just hide it a little bit better.

You don't even need that, though. All you'd need is a down-on-their-luck family, possibly struggling with debts, seeing an opportunity for potential astronomical wealth. Sure, it may be a long shot, but if that kid makes it big, you stand to profit all the way. And if you're already spending money you don't have on supporting the child, well...

Children have been and are still abused, sold off and even employed as cannon fodder in real life. I don't see why EVE would be different.

[Saede Riordan]

Well, for one thing, EVE has no shortage of mind-screwing secret or not-so-secret groups, several of which might be tempted to create and utilize child soldiers if given the opportunity. I'd say this includes the Empires - they'd just hide it a little bit better.

Saede might be inclined to do something like that. I might add that to my list of things to do to try and get people to wardec me when I make my post for the brainstorming topic.

[Vieve]

Well, for one thing, EVE has no shortage of mind-screwing secret or not-so-secret groups, several of which might be tempted to create and utilize child soldiers if given the opportunity. I'd say this includes the Empires - they'd just hide it a little bit better.

Indeed.  I have a thread like this tucked into the background of one of my alts.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Question: Why would you hook a child up to technology that has a good chance of making the child catatonic, and can only be fully utilized by putting the child in mortal danger?

Aside from some twisted mind-screwing secret group that would make Cerberus look like the Red Cross, well... why? Why would you do that to a kid? The difference between Capsuleer neural rigging and, say, Ender's Game is that in Ender's Game the children weren't sent into a situation that would lead to their death.

That said, the Neocom is a completely different technology. It's like a cell phone. My 4 y.o. niece has a cell phone (which actually turned out to be useful when a caregiver had a seizure). Neocoms are probably used for all sorts of nifty things, unrelated to Capsuleer tech; just like cloning, fluid routers, and a whole host of other technologies. Capsuleers just use a communications network controlled and operated for the sole use of Capsuleers, maintained by the CRC.

So... while capsuleer children seems so, so wrong, having a child with Neocom access is perfectly reasonable.

From my understanding the NEOCOM is not a cellphone. It is a device that facilitates the use of the Capsule and various capsuleer specific amenities (alongside other PDA like services) even when not in the pod. PDAs exist to serve the needs of non-capsuleers who want those functions, but the NEOCOM is specific to starship use.

"As an essential component of the navigational and tactical interface of spaceships, Neocoms are a small but essential cornerstone of the interstellar economy."

[Saede Riordan]

I had taken them to actually be software, not hardware.

[lallara zhuul]

I think the deadspace beacon debacle was related to a teenage kid twiddling with the Neocomm to see some soap opera.

But I would think that in the Main Factions, where there are human rights for their citizens, a capsuleer could not be 'euthanized' for the first time without the age of consent. The implantation and the training would be a viable option in special pilot academies before that, for simulations and whatnot.

I doubt there would be a legal system in place where a guardian can have their ward killed.

Except among the Intaki, but it is not the death of the person, it is a Reborn thing.
The body does not die.

While with the capsuleers, the body certainly does die.

[Astrid Stjerna]

Like I said, Immersion-breaking.

I'm having difficulty figuring out ways or reasons why an 8-year old would have access to, or even know how to interphase with capsuleer broadcast equipment, or even have the proper implants. 

I also haven't had many business conference calls with children picking up the phone at one end and chatting with the rest of us, either.

Or telephone calls in general where this ever, ever happens.

Sorry if this is a necropost, but....

Have you seriously never seen a kid hitting buttons on a computer and randomly opening a program?  As I recall (Jennifer being on of my alts, after all), that was precisely the reason her mother gave to Azdan Amith via EVEMail -- she was given access to a computer to play her games and hit the wrong button.

Immersion-breaking?  I'll leave that for others to decide.  I have to say, though, the Summit crew really gave that little girl a rough time! *lol*

[Lyn Farel]

Yeah, but I bet even if they manage to break into a capsuleer fluid router, that may be the only time they will do it unless they have reasons to do it again, and wacky parents...