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[Publius Valerius]

So I have put the Liberals in.... they would dock on the Caldari liberals...... the Royalist are now docking also to the patriots and practicals....

Link

[Publius Valerius]

Or maybe ... with the royalist in the center would fit better..... the Zealots would than dock on the Reclaimers (Sarums Family).....

Zealots would be on the other side of the Liberals.... between then the Royalist.
The same counts for Unionists and Determinists.

here

[Lyn Farel]

Problem was that there were explicitly drawn axes with no labels - and even if in this case you could have just done a circle and placed things around it at varying distances from the center, the clustering of different groups did kind of imply a relationship between their horizontal/vertical positions.

Which only confused me further as some of those groups seem more alike than the distances between them made it seem. :p

I think I understand. Thanks for the feedback.


Edit : Publius, I saw your post in the catacombs, but I really think that if people did not understand something, then it obviously means that it could be made better or enhanced to prevent that to happen again. Thats the point of getting feedbacks.

Khanid Kingdom

• Royalists : The Khanid royalists are true copies of their public figure and King, Khanid II. They still retain enough of his sense of independance true and proud Khanid patriots, but also still share a good deal of the Amarrian religion, if not more pragmatically, sometimes less hampered by religious ethics, religion being regarded as a mean in itself in some extreme cases. They are the closest of the Khanid factions to the Caldari, with whom they keep a lot of fruitful trade agreements. They are also very influenced by some parts of the Caldari mindset itself, most of them being about their practical and protectionnist views. Royalists are also the center of the Khanid political roster, acting as a balance between determinists and unionists.
• Determinists : Khanid determinists are a minority mostly concerned by the Khanid Kingdom self sufficiency as a legitimate fully fledged kingdom, looking to sever all ties with the Amarr Empire. Most of them push to extremes the rebellion leaded by their King when he got exiled and see the Amarr as nothing more than a threat.
• Unionists : They are the ones that never really appreciated the awkward gap that emerged between the Khanid Kingdom and the Amarr Empire. As much as they are still proud of their legacy, they strive to see their Kingdom back into the Empire as a fully fledged imperial House. This has at least half happened since Empress Jamyl I rose into power, and the Khanid House is now partially part of the Privy Council.
• Zealots : The Khanid are not generally known to be as devout as the Amarr, but those who are tend to be fanatics even by Amarr standards. Religious Khanid are often inducted into zealous cults, generally based on their interpretation of the Scriptures. The Amarr regard these religious Khanid with suspicious interest; on the one hand the cultists' extremism alarms them, but on the other their religious fervor often results in deep theosophical insights.

I like it.... for the Unionist is already a wikipage there (see here).

About the Zealots.... I would start, that they are mainly a Khanid Bloodline group, which works in the Empire and Kingdom, but has gain more political power after the split, so that it is now a political bloc... than your text. After that... that the Zealots in the Empire are Reclaimers, which means they are close to the House Sarum. Which brings some nice Khanid vs. Sarum aka Khanid II vs. Jamyl I action.

About the Royalist.. First Im happy you doesnt call them Separatist. Second: I like this line: Royalists are also the center of the Khanid political roster, acting as a balance between determinists and unionists. Third: Im a Royalist 

As note: Maybe we find a counterweight for the Zealots.

Edit: Or maybe better two or three counterweights.... of course this groups are to small to compete alone against the politcal power of the Zealots, but if they would work together they would be also a bloc.

So for one... of course the Liberals... and like the Caldari Liberals they believe in the principles of free trade and free enterprice.... etc.

The different between theam and the Royalist are, that they are for even stronger ties with the State. About the mindset.. like you already said about the Royalist: " They are also very influenced by some parts of the Caldari mindset itself, most of them being about their practical and protectionnist views."
So for the Khanid Liberals would be, like the name shows, the liberal mindset.

So overall they would make - with maybe some other (which I have to pull out of my ***) - a nice counterweight to the Zealots.

You are right, the thing that was annoying me was that Royalists were put directly next to the Caldari bloc. We clearly miss a believable faction which would indeed be Khanid liberals / corporatists.

I find your second option better. Nice feedback, will try to change it when I get the time.

[Publius Valerius]

Thx for the kind words.... I thought to that option 2 is better too.

I have rethink some parts.... First Im such a moron. I had give Seriphyn a advise (see here). So why not make a millieu chart for the pluralistic EVE univers.

So I have try to make at least a 2 milieus, see here. The Royalist and the Tradionalist /Kador are in both now in the center (I know I have make the red line around the Kadorites.... maybe see it as 75% in the trad.consv. Milieu. The good think.... the Royalist are stil in the center and all other groups are still aorund the Royalist... and stay in there opposite side.... Liberals - Royalist - Zealots and Determinist - Royalist - Unionist

So back . I have put the Liberals together and all others liek before....

See here.

[Publius Valerius]

As addition to the other post.... I was thinking maybe add connection lines..... like I said...
Liberals - Royalist - Zealots and the Khanid Liberals with the Caldari Liberals....
Determinist - Royalist - Unionist

Or in the right coner I have added Outlaws (the minnis have "pirate thing" going on in the PF)... of the three Minmatar factions.... and connected this three with another... and every one of them with the faction. I havent go tru all the sub-factions it is late... and the tabing around while mining was a little ....

here

About the Milieus.... I was thinking maybe dismiss the nice backround and add this bubbles if you like... for example as backround of the the thee outlaws a black bubble.... something like: Adaptive criminal milieu....

For the three Fedpartys... maybe a bubble in green with: Poltical activ/oriented milieu... then you can add more to the Fed like: Hedonists and on the other side of the spectrum the post-materialists (in the meaning of that consum and the income which you need for the cosum isnt everthing etc...Like Tyler Durden:P )

[Hamish Grayson]

A Caldari "Liberal" doesn't have the same meaning as a Liberal in other factions, and the majority of the connection between the Khanid and the Caldari is through the Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi who are part of the patriot group.

As I tried to point out IC on the IGS once upon a time the difference between the liberals and the practicals is their stance on free trade and neo-mercantilism.    The difference between the Patriots and Practicals is how big the Caldari Navy should be and how it should be used (defense only vs making money/acquiring assets).    The Difference between the Patriots and the Liberals is their stance on CONCORD, the Patriots sometimes call for trade tariffs and want to trade more often with Amarr, Khanid and Minmatar while the Liberals don't care for trade tariffs at all and trade slightly more with the Gallente than they do with each of the others.

[Lyn Farel]

I will have to think a little about the Amarr - Khanid - Caldari bridge. Some are still not totally perfect like the Tash Murkon that should be connected to the Caldari somehow (with all the empyrean age trade agreements).

Concerning the Gallente they are ofc more complicated than that : at the beginning I had also the doves, hawks, magpies and ostriches but they are mainly a second layer to something else, a precision on the different "moods" of the population on specific issues rather than real political general tendancies like the Sociocrats, Progressives, etc.

I like your minmatar outlaws bridge between the Republic and the Cartel. It is mentionned in the PF that a lot of Minmatar end up in piracy or other shady dealings, and those are close to the minmatar individualist group, not totally attached to the Republic.

[Publius Valerius]

A Caldari "Liberal" doesn't have the same meaning as a Liberal in other factions, and the majority of the connection between the Khanid and the Caldari is through the Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi who are part of the patriot group.

Sure thing.... you can take the connection between them out.... I was a little to fast with it....

About Liberals arent Liberals..... You can already say that all those which we call liberals..... - Amarr L., Khanid L., Caldari L. - are in their respective society "represent" the economical liberal part (dont see liberal her as liberal, what North Americans it sees). So a social Milieu as bottom layer would be not a problem (the problem would be if I would give the Sociocrats the same bubble backround color), because you have add always a faction symbole, to each group... so we already know... that a amarr backround means that it is part of the empire... now we just need to give... a second half transparent backround... the soical millieus....

I will have to think a little about the Amarr - Khanid - Caldari bridge. Some are still not totally perfect like the Tash Murkon that should be connected to the Caldari somehow (with all the empyrean age trade agreements).

Like I said.... the connection was to much... I agree .... it was late last night and it overcomes me ... but you can connect them with the social milieu backround bubble.... some silver-blue: economical liberal Milieu.

See this Milieus as general tendency, which are in every society like Hamish Grayson said are different, but you can say that they are the economical liberal social Milieu for their respective society.

Concerning the Gallente they are ofc more complicated than that : at the beginning I had also the doves, hawks, magpies and ostriches but they are mainly a second layer to something else, a precision on the different "moods" of the population on specific issues rather than real political general tendancies like the Sociocrats, Progressives, etc.

Like I said... give up the backround for a social milieu bubbels (which can overlap with others).... so of course you can bring lower "moods". Give them just a light green backround color... and give than in the legend... this light green color the name: political oriented Milieu. And the partys a green with: Poltical organized milieu. And this two bubbles can over lap... in the form which you like.

I have ninjs some stuff together.... and yes it is just some brainstorming:

blue: economical liberal milieu
yellow: tradional conservativ milieu ( already know whats comes: Listen Dude , Publius why arent the Reunionists in yellow?... because.. like I said it has the Ammatar symbole, so the are a group in the Ammatar society (not the whole Minmatar world) in this society the arent the tradionalists.
green: poltical organized milieu (or maybe add a party somewhere)
red: adaptive criminal milieu
dark gray:organized criminal milieu (the pirate factions+ some others. I think their was even some more pirate groups mention in some mission... a gallente which is in alot of movies etc...)

here

Edit: with Sani Sabik and gray backround... yeah I was their to fast.... just the blood raiders.

[Publius Valerius]

Okay... now I have lost the overview

Ehm... so that were my idea: here

I havce for the Caldari add the two Disassociated groups and add the guristas over type 2 and type 1 is the group which conects now the other threes. I have also try to think about thze Fed... but I havent found much.... maybe ask Seriphyn.

But on a other thing... ehm have you rework the chart?... because like you see I have lost a little the beauty... have you a newer version or without backround....

Fly save.... and again a awesome chart.

Edit: Totally forget to take the K. Liberal - C. Liberal connection out .... so just deleted it in your mind. Plus maybe add a connection between: Orthodox "Ardishapur Family" and Imperialists "Orthodox". I think with Yonis as Ruler of the Ammatar Mandate shouldnt it be a problem... and a plausbile connection between this two factions.

[Lyn Farel]

I too added the 2 dissociated groups yersterday, and also the Gallente Populist Party and some new stuff. I havent updated it yet on the web because I did A LOT of changes, trying to represent more of the relationships that were still missing (Ishukone - Gallente liberals, that kind of things). For now I am mostly annoyed by my U-nats and Provists groups that are fucking painful to drop on the map, but I think I managed to come up to something better and more representative.

Will post it soon.

[Publius Valerius]

I too added the 2 dissociated groups yersterday

Will post it soon.

Nice... great minds think alike 1 

[Lyn Farel]

The new one, Sansha are back here even if they could be put anywhere...

The "neutral" entities

[Publius Valerius]

The new one, Sansha are back here even if they could be put anywhere...

The "neutral" entities

Some how are going both links to the same page?

Looks really nice... if I can make a small suggestion: Khanid Corporatist for Caldari Sympathizer, it sounds somehow better....
I like that you have them dock to the Patriots..... It fits to my article about: Ganortchar Asabona and Hamish Grayson suggestion about the Kingdom - Caldari connection.

Another thing... I have seen you have put the Kadors far out side.... and the Ardishapur in the center? ehm... I think maybe you done it to have the Ammatar Imperalists docking on them?... On another topic have you the page with a transparent backround or white?... so I can play around a little.... it would be awesome.... maybe i find a meaning full way to get the Sansha in the chart, plus maybe a chart with full on connection lines (so that they arent just half-ass like in my chart  ).

[Publius Valerius]

I know I little of topic... but what was the name of the Gallent Outlaw and his organisation which shows up even in popular movies/holoreels? Or maybe it was a gallente-Intaki outlaw.... I dont remember ...I just know it was a Lvl 2 mission or mission 2ish.

Any help welcome....

[kalaratiri]

I know I little of topic... but what was the name of the Gallent Outlaw and his organisation which shows up even in popular movies/holoreels? Or maybe it was a gallente-Intaki outlaw.... I dont remember ...I just know it was a Lvl 2 mission or mission 2ish.

Any help welcome....

Holoreel is "Into the Deep" and the Outlaw is Zazzmatazz.