Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Horatius Caul]

A first try on a view based on the standard lawful/chaotic rating : http://blackhole.holocom.org/vrac/evepoliticalroster.jpg


Notes :

- It is mainly about political parties and cultural entities here, mostly.
- Please keep in mind that if I posted this in the "player driven content", it is for a good reason. I can't be totally neutral even if I tried. I have more knowledge about some factions and less about some others. It can also be slightly tainted by how I, the player, see the Eve universe.
- I have not added the Jove, SoCT and SOE because it was physically impossible... I would need a depth axis tbh. :/
- I am still looking for a squared large background image to avoid stretching the image in question...

[Bataav]

That's an awesome graphical representation.

I'm almost tempted to suggest it needs to be in 3D to fully join up all the edges that need to be, like Mammal's suggestion of the Federal sympathising Intaki sharing an edge with the Caldari Liberals.

Additionally because of the Caldari Liberals... liberalism, they could actually share an edge with their counterparts in the Gallente Liberals too.

Yeah... go make it 3D like the starmap so we can spin it. Go on. 

[Graelyn]

Great Work! 

[Lyn Farel]

Thanks for the feedbacks !

Yeah,

I'm not sure if it's a preference thing. I can't speak for all Intaki RPers, but this: http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3727&tid=4 article I think shows some of the complexity.

The insistance on the primacy of the Intaki Assembly is something most Intaki RPers tend to have in common, and here you have a PF source affirming the significance of the Ishukone relationship to the Intaki (last paragraph). A Federal sympathising Intaki (such as myself for example, though I'm hardly a model example, having formerly been in the secessionist camp) would be inclined to be both in favour of the Ishukone Agreement, and in favour of continued membership of the Federation as a whole.

Of course, I'm generalising, but that's how I see it.

Makes sense. Though I am not sure if that particular case can be a generality. This is why I am still hesitating to put Intaki Feds together with Caldari Liberals.

I also ideally would like to create that chart for neophyte RPers that want to have a clear view of all the possibilities of factions and sub factions they can get. A lot of new RPers, if not most, have a lot to discover of the PF when they come into RP and usually just see the top of the icerberg with 4 factions and some pirate factions. I started like this too, and I am pretty sure everyone did until they start to see all the subtleties of the matter. So, a lot of new RPers end up following mainstream factionalism, and often confuse all the subfactions into their own because they precisely do not know much about these sub factions or what makes them different.

So well, my point here is that I want to keep the chart as simple as possible to avoid confusions. I may also write something for each sub faction soon.

A Federal sympathising Intaki (such as myself for example, though I'm hardly a model example, having formerly been in the secessionist camp)

This isn't the place for it, but I'm interested in how that came about!

On topic:  Dang, that is a really cool chart.  Makes a lot of sense too; it'd be interesting to see how the indie groups (like Interbus, etc) overlay onto that!

I tried to add Interbus and all the factions that are not here, but somehow they are for most of them totally apolitical and constitute more of another layer. Except the Jove ofc, for which I have troubles to insert properly on the chart : they are quite close to CONCORD too, as much as the other empire factions, but not closer to the Caldari, Gallente, Amarr or Minmatar so I basically cant create a place for them in that already overcrowded middle. Anyway, I think the Jove are also to be kept separated from this chart considering that as much as they are signatories of the Yulai treaty, they almost never involve themselves in New Eden politics.

I think I can add the SOE, though.

That's an awesome graphical representation.

I'm almost tempted to suggest it needs to be in 3D to fully join up all the edges that need to be, like Mammal's suggestion of the Federal sympathising Intaki sharing an edge with the Caldari Liberals.

Additionally because of the Caldari Liberals... liberalism, they could actually share an edge with their counterparts in the Gallente Liberals too.

Yeah... go make it 3D like the starmap so we can spin it. Go on. 

I suppose I could do it in Unity 3D but I lack the programming skills to port it to web browsers and also, thats just a lot of work. :p

Propose it to CCP instead

[Horatius Caul]

Hmmmm... could make a flash (or HTML 5?) version with short descriptions of each section...

[Lyn Farel]

Was more thinking of a pdf (which requires a lot less work) but the cool thing with a web based application is that you can click on each faction and get a description.

Maybe something similar is doable in pdf too, though.

[Publius Valerius]

The Chart is awesome... I like how you show that some points are closer, tied together and of course the Y- and X-axis.. what is your plan for the future?

Was more thinking of a pdf (which requires a lot less work) but the cool thing with a web based application is that you can click on each faction and get a description.

Maybe something similar is doable in pdf too, though.

I was thinking of a table in table in table chart in the wiki... Maybe I can maybe help.... (about more text, I dont know if the wiki has a hide&open funktion; I never tested it)

[Lyn Farel]

The Chart is awesome... I like how you show that some points are closer, tied together and of course the Y- and X-axis.. what is your plan for the future?

Was more thinking of a pdf (which requires a lot less work) but the cool thing with a web based application is that you can click on each faction and get a description.

Maybe something similar is doable in pdf too, though.

I was thinking of a table in table in table chart in the wiki... Maybe I can maybe help.... (about more text, I dont know if the wiki has a hide&open funktion; I never tested it)

My plans ? I dont really know. I mostly did this because it sounded like it would be interesting to do. Now the base is done, I will start to write something about each sub faction. Will see after if someone has ideas to link that image with the text or if I have the time and the motivation to do a flash based thing or something. vOv

[Lyn Farel]

Warning : wall of text below. Again, it is still to be labelled player driven content, even if a lot of things are ofc based on PF.


First part, with the greater Amarrian bloc.


Amarr Empire

• Orthodoxes : They are the Amarr mainstream. They believe in the traditionnal ways of Amarr and are probably the most faithful of all. They hold everything the Scriptures say in very hight esteem and might sometimes seem to be narrow-minded regarding different scriptural interpretations. Everything in their life is ruled by religion and faith, be it their daily routine to their mindset and external doctrines. They also constitute the center of the amarrian political roster.
  Their champions are the mainstream part of Theology Council and the Ardishapur Family, the latter having always been considered as the most faithful and keeper of the old fervent, religious traditions.
• Conservatives and Reclaimers : The Amarrian conservatives are often refered as the hardliners of the Amarr Empire. Like every Amarrian, they strongly believe in the Amarr faith, but are more inclined toward its expansionnist side, especially the Book of Reclaiming. They strongly believe that the Empire has to spread the word of God to every other heathen culture and bring them to the light according to the old Reclaiming principles, all of this by divine war and conquest, like in the old days. They can only think of one united New Eden under the mighty rule of God, embraced by the Amarr Empire.
  Their champion is usually the Sarum Family, that have always been very inclined to martial lives and military mindsets. They also are often the strongest supporters of the Amarr Navy, which plays a very important role in the Amarrian society.
• Traditionnalists : Traditionnalists are often found in very old families and houses. They may show a commitment to the orthodox church as much as anyone, but what generally interests them most is their social influence and place in the amarrian social ladder. Among all the imperial Houses, they are the most aristocratic. Courtiers are legion and their main preoccupation is often the amarrian aristocratic and luxurious pomp, and the prestige of their family and themselves. As much as in orthodox families, everyone knows what his place is and the social ladder is one of the most rigid of the amarrian society. They can be sometimes be regarded as the amarrian practicals and opportunists.
  Their champion is the Kador family, one of the oldest and proud family of the Empire from where a lot of Emperors come.
• Liberals and Neo Reclaimers : Amarrian liberals are usually the closest ones to the external cultures and influences, in spite of the very protectionnist state the Empire lives in. They often believe in diplomacy rather than force, and in superiority through cultural means. They also strive for internal reforms, including slavery, faith and trading laws, where their most common and strong belief is that the Empire needs to evolve and adapt to the new galactic situation. They are often considered as the most open minded of all Amarrians, but also enemies of what has always been the strenght of the Empire : stability and might.
  Their champions are usually the Kor-Azor Family, that often embodies the famous Emperor Heideran's views about prosperity and stability through peace and diplomacy, and strong relationships with foreign cultures. The most faithful of the Kor-Azor can also be regarded as Neo-Reclaimers, who consider that Amarrian faith still has to be spread to other cultures according to what is written in the Scriptures, but via different means and methods than war and conquest, and sometimes, slavery too.
  Another of their champions is the Tash-Murkon Family, quite new in the Amarrian Privy Council as the 5th family after the Khanid Family got expelled. Tash-Murkonites are mostly self made men and women, with a strong ancestry of commoners and traders before becoming their own House. They are probably the less inclined of all to the Amarrian protocol (quite at the opposite of the Kor Azor), and the ones keeping the most business external relations. Probably a lot more pragmatic and less idealistic than their Kor-Azor counterpart, they are also the closest amarrian heir family to the rest of the cluster, and probably the richest, thanks to Catiz Tash-Murkon.
• Theocrats : Theocrats believe in the old ways of Amarr that took place in the early times of the Empire, before the Moral Reforms that followed the self proclamation and the fall of Emperor Zarragram the Mad. They believe in an Empire ruled by religion and apostles, like it was at the beginning. They despise the Theology Council that is a tool of the Emperor, and think that the executive power has to be held exclusively by the Church.
  Their most famous champions, which has also been branded heretic, is the Saint Order of Tetrimon.

Ammatar Mandate

• Imperialists (orthodox) : Doing everything they can to live like true amarrians, doing whatever they can to fully integrate the mandate into the Empire in many cases as a province rather than a separate state. Vehemently opposed to the dealings of the previous Ammatar government - proud and welcoming of current Amarrian overlordship. These Ammatar may remove or deny vestiges of their primordial tribal heritage, proudly replacing it with copies of what they view as Amarrian.  In some cases this may go to the extreme of disliking the Nefantar aristocracy - seeing it as a relic of the tribal era, however this extreme is more prevalent in the non-Nefantar, lower-ranking Ammatar.
• Determinists : Type A: Those who view the role of Ammatar mandate as a friend/ally of rather than a servant of the Amarr empire (e.g. not just a happy satellite).  Still quite pro-Amarr, they are happy to praise and look up to the Amarr as their 'big brother'.  These would prefer not to be ruled directly by Amarr, but would accept the current status quo as a necessity considering the circumstances under which it was instituted, and would probably be disaffected by the treachery of the previous government.
  Type B: More extreme; those who believe that the Ammatar Mandate is worthy of being entirely independent of the Amarr empire.  They do not necessarily believe that the good relations should be changed, but are willing to sacrifice them for independence.  They prefer to take pride in their culture (including borrowings from the Amarr) as Ammatar, rather than an attempted copy of the Amarr.  They may be ambivalent to the behaviour of the previous government and see it as part in parcel of independent realpolitik.
• Traditionnalists (conservatives) : Happy with the old Nefantar situation, they would strive for their old prominence and supremacy, with the Amarrian favors. Wrapt in irredentist fervous, they may be in favor of bolder strikes against the Minmatar Republic because of their visions centered on the past.  Mostly wealthy Ammatars with very aristocratic lineage.
• Unionists (liberals) : Type A: Not to be confused with the khanid unionists that wants the Kingdom to rejoin the Empire, the ammatar Unionists could be the ones tired of the war, looking for a reconciliation of the minmatars and the amarr (between their old origins and their new origins). Obviously, a quite minor group, with views firstly centered on cultural openness before than any real peace. 
  Type B: Like above, but focussed on reconciliation between Ammatar and Minmatar rather than Amarr and Minmatar. Willing to disconnect from Amarr influence. Likely to have been the biggest contributor to defectors during the upheaval.
• Opportunists : These shrewd, cunning Ammatar may affiliate with and originate from any of the above groups, but this is a facade.  The main motivator is self interest.  There is nothing stopping them from using any of the political angles of the above for their own gain in an opportunistic manner.  Not to be trusted, and difficult to tell apart from other groups.  Some may have joined this group after the Ammatar order turned on its head, where the mandate seemed to be caught between a rock and a hard place.  Others may be part of this group because...they're just rotten people. They may deal with Minmatar, pirates, or any other smelly groups of people whilst paying lip service to the Amarr.

Khanid Kingdom

• Royalists : The Khanid royalists are true copies of their public figure and King, Khanid II. They still retain enough of his sense of independance true and proud Khanid patriots, but also still share a good deal of the Amarrian religion, if not more pragmatically, sometimes less hampered by religious ethics, religion being regarded as a mean in itself in some extreme cases. They are the closest of the Khanid factions to the Caldari, with whom they keep a lot of fruitful trade agreements. They are also very influenced by some parts of the Caldari mindset itself, most of them being about their practical and protectionnist views. Royalists are also the center of the Khanid political roster, acting as a balance between determinists and unionists.
• Determinists : Khanid determinists are a minority mostly concerned by the Khanid Kingdom self sufficiency as a legitimate fully fledged kingdom, looking to sever all ties with the Amarr Empire. Most of them push to extremes the rebellion leaded by their King when he got exiled and see the Amarr as nothing more than a threat.
• Unionists : They are the ones that never really appreciated the awkward gap that emerged between the Khanid Kingdom and the Amarr Empire. As much as they are still proud of their legacy, they strive to see their Kingdom back into the Empire as a fully fledged imperial House. This has at least half happened since Empress Jamyl I rose into power, and the Khanid House is now partially part of the Privy Council.
• Zealots : The Khanid are not generally known to be as devout as the Amarr, but those who are tend to be fanatics even by Amarr standards. Religious Khanid are often inducted into zealous cults, generally based on their interpretation of the Scriptures. The Amarr regard these religious Khanid with suspicious interest; on the one hand the cultists' extremism alarms them, but on the other their religious fervor often results in deep theosophical insights.

[Horatius Caul]

I'm gonna be making a flash version of this for sure.

[Lyn Farel]

New version, moved a few factions (khanid unionists, zealots), added minmatar expatriates, and removed Sansha Nation that does not really share any ties with anybody.

A secondary factions overview, including the remaining unfactionned/civilian entities around the CONCORD / Sansha war.

[Morwen Lagann]

It's very pretty, but...

[Lyn Farel]

I thought it would be obvious with the colors... But at first I did not even had any axes, just a radiant disk being fully lawful at the center and fully outlaw at the extremities.

Will try to name them.

[Morwen Lagann]

Problem was that there were explicitly drawn axes with no labels - and even if in this case you could have just done a circle and placed things around it at varying distances from the center, the clustering of different groups did kind of imply a relationship between their horizontal/vertical positions.

Which only confused me further as some of those groups seem more alike than the distances between them made it seem. :p

[Publius Valerius]

Khanid Kingdom

• Royalists : The Khanid royalists are true copies of their public figure and King, Khanid II. They still retain enough of his sense of independance true and proud Khanid patriots, but also still share a good deal of the Amarrian religion, if not more pragmatically, sometimes less hampered by religious ethics, religion being regarded as a mean in itself in some extreme cases. They are the closest of the Khanid factions to the Caldari, with whom they keep a lot of fruitful trade agreements. They are also very influenced by some parts of the Caldari mindset itself, most of them being about their practical and protectionnist views. Royalists are also the center of the Khanid political roster, acting as a balance between determinists and unionists.
• Determinists : Khanid determinists are a minority mostly concerned by the Khanid Kingdom self sufficiency as a legitimate fully fledged kingdom, looking to sever all ties with the Amarr Empire. Most of them push to extremes the rebellion leaded by their King when he got exiled and see the Amarr as nothing more than a threat.
• Unionists : They are the ones that never really appreciated the awkward gap that emerged between the Khanid Kingdom and the Amarr Empire. As much as they are still proud of their legacy, they strive to see their Kingdom back into the Empire as a fully fledged imperial House. This has at least half happened since Empress Jamyl I rose into power, and the Khanid House is now partially part of the Privy Council.
• Zealots : The Khanid are not generally known to be as devout as the Amarr, but those who are tend to be fanatics even by Amarr standards. Religious Khanid are often inducted into zealous cults, generally based on their interpretation of the Scriptures. The Amarr regard these religious Khanid with suspicious interest; on the one hand the cultists' extremism alarms them, but on the other their religious fervor often results in deep theosophical insights.

I like it.... for the Unionist is already a wikipage there (see here).

About the Zealots.... I would start, that they are mainly a Khanid Bloodline group, which works in the Empire and Kingdom, but has gain more political power after the split, so that it is now a political bloc... than your text. After that... that the Zealots in the Empire are Reclaimers, which means they are close to the House Sarum. Which brings some nice Khanid vs. Sarum aka Khanid II vs. Jamyl I action.

About the Royalist.. First Im happy you doesnt call them Separatist. Second: I like this line: Royalists are also the center of the Khanid political roster, acting as a balance between determinists and unionists. Third: Im a Royalist 

As note: Maybe we find a counterweight for the Zealots.

Edit: Or maybe better two or three counterweights.... of course this groups are to small to compete alone against the politcal power of the Zealots, but if they would work together they would be also a bloc.

So for one... of course the Liberals... and like the Caldari Liberals they believe in the principles of free trade and free enterprice.... etc.

The different between theam and the Royalist are, that they are for even stronger ties with the State. About the mindset.. like you already said about the Royalist: " They are also very influenced by some parts of the Caldari mindset itself, most of them being about their practical and protectionnist views."
So for the Khanid Liberals would be, like the name shows, the liberal mindset.

So overall they would make - with maybe some other (which I have to pull out of my ***) - a nice counterweight to the Zealots.