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[Verone]

I started reading it, and I had to just stop and put it on the shelf.

I hate to be critical of people's work given I'm trying my hardest to write and develop my own style, as makes me feel hypocritical to lambaste someone else, but it's hands down the worst book I've ever read, by a long shot.

[Caellach Marellus]

So at what point can we actually discuss the more public fallout from this book ICly without people crying "WTF SPOILERS?"

The Battle in Amamake would easily be on the rumour mill, especially talk of the Ishu-Mordu-Roden co-operation that "apparently took place."

Also Heth revoking all Ishukone enrolment into the S&T would be major news, as well as the general feeling of hostility towards Ishukone from State loyalists.


Considering all these events have already happened in game it just seems odd to not be able to ICly discuss them.

[orange]

So at what point can we actually discuss the more public fallout from this book ICly without people crying "WTF SPOILERS?"

The Battle in Amamake would easily be on the rumour mill, especially talk of the Ishu-Mordu-Roden co-operation that "apparently took place."

Also Heth revoking all Ishukone enrolment into the S&T would be major news, as well as the general feeling of hostility towards Ishukone from State loyalists.


Considering all these events have already happened in game it just seems odd to not be able to ICly discuss them.

But from the same perspective, we should have already discussed them.  They happened in the past, like year or two.  It isn't "news."

[Vieve]

So at what point can we actually discuss the more public fallout from this book ICly without people crying "WTF SPOILERS?"

The Battle in Amamake would easily be on the rumour mill, especially talk of the Ishu-Mordu-Roden co-operation that "apparently took place."

Also Heth revoking all Ishukone enrolment into the S&T would be major news, as well as the general feeling of hostility towards Ishukone from State loyalists.

Considering all these events have already happened in game it just seems odd to not be able to ICly discuss them.

But from the same perspective, we should have already discussed them.  They happened in the past, like year or two.  It isn't "news."

This also begs the question "where did all of these Ishukone pilots that became capsuleers in the past year or so get educated"?  Should those capsuleers be flying around with SWA or SAK school affiliations?  Or did the Federation decide to admit capsule-compatible Ishukone pilots to UoC -- something else that would also have been/be/would be/would haven beed big news in the past year or so?

However, since I've finished reading Templar One, I feel I need to point out a couple of things:

Thing #1: Tony never actually mentioned the Science and Trade Institute. Reppola's daughter was kicked out of a university called the State Science Academy.

[spoiler]

“He doesn’t know,” muttered Ralirashi Okimo, the Chief Technical Officer of Ishukone, a grave look on his face. “I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but the State Science Academy has formally revoked your daughter’s enrollment, citing our lack of participation in the TRUST Act.”

The words nearly took the air out of his lungs.

So that’s what she wanted to tell me, Mens thought.

“They made a scene of it: Bastards literally pulled her right out of class, in front of everyone. The same exclusion criterion will likely be applied retroactively to all Ishukone residents,” Ralirashi continued. “Heth is using the example of your daughter to send a warning to others.”

I’m losing my family for this, Mens thought, lost in a trance as he stood among colleagues who were helpless to do anything except avoid looking at him directly. The only thing that I could give her to make up for my absence in her life was that institution, where the best minds of Caldari science and culture had gone.

She’d opened that door by herself, using her own smarts and work ethic. All I had to do was hold it open for her.

Gonzales, Tony (2012-01-03). EVE: Templar One (Kindle Locations 311-321). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

[/spoiler]


Thing #2:  Tony also never suggested that Amile Reppola was a capsuleer. While he implied that the TRUST-associated ban on Ishukone students applies to all universities within the State, it's never said if the same ban is extended to Ishukone capsule-compatible students and the State's capsuleer training programs.


[spoiler]

“I’m not saying we should,” she answered. “I’m … proud of you, Dad. Proud to be your daughter. Sometimes, I think Mother resents me for supporting you so much. But if it’s going to be us against everyone else, we need to be closer. I want to be more a part of your life. I have a right to take an active role in protecting myself. It’s not that I don’t trust you to do that … it’s just that this is personal now. I hate the people who did this to us as much as you do. So if the State won’t let me into their damn universities … then you’re just going to have to teach me everything you know.”


Gonzales, Tony (2012-01-03). EVE: Templar One (Kindle Locations 2493-2497). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

[/spoiler]


And 'State Science Academy' translates to STI for folks?  Eh?  Personally, I'd translate it as SAK ... but anyway, the point I'm flailing to get to is that the TRUST ban on Ishukone students attending State institutions may not apply/have applied to capsuleers, and as a result, [sarcasm] it didn't even register as a blip on capsuleer-oriented news services, because, as we know, we're all raging demigods that could care less about the puny little ant people. [/sarcasm].

[spoiler]As a side note, I only wish I could say that the actions of Mens' wife were screechingly unrealistic.  To my ancient brain, Amile also acted entirely too young to be a university student, even if she was cognizant of the socioenvironmental gulf that existed between her and her former classmates: I wish some verbiage would have been included early in the novel that established her age, especially if the book was using the "Caldari education is efficient: students within the State routinely enter university-level education sooner than their counterparts in the Federation, Empire or Republic" model.
[/spoiler]

[orange]

And 'State Science Academy' translates to STI for folks?  Eh?  Personally, I'd translate it as SAK ... but anyway,

But it is an important difference in interpretation.  STI was Ishukone owned/funded, SAK was Lai Dai owned/funded.  Seems much easier to sell the Lai Dai appointed leadership of SAK to ban Ishukone students from its school.

[Vieve]

And 'State Science Academy' translates to STI for folks?  Eh?  Personally, I'd translate it as SAK ... but anyway,

But it is an important difference in interpretation.  STI was Ishukone owned/funded, SAK was Lai Dai owned/funded.  Seems much easier to sell the Lai Dai appointed leadership of SAK to ban Ishukone students from its school.

Quite true!


I'd imagine if STI was pressured to kick out Ishukone students, Zainou'd just want to shut the school down entirely.

[Yoshito Sanders]

I started reading it, and I had to just stop and put it on the shelf.

I hate to be critical of people's work given I'm trying my hardest to write and develop my own style, as makes me feel hypocritical to lambaste someone else, but it's hands down the worst book I've ever read, by a long shot.

It only makes you a hypocrite if you believe your own work should not be criticized.

[Gottii]

I started reading it, and I had to just stop and put it on the shelf.

I hate to be critical of people's work given I'm trying my hardest to write and develop my own style, as makes me feel hypocritical to lambaste someone else, but it's hands down the worst book I've ever read, by a long shot.

It only makes you a hypocrite if you believe your own work should not be criticized.

Yoshito is wise.  I think you would want to know if others found your work to be so harmful to EVE PF.

[BloodBird]

I started reading it, and I had to just stop and put it on the shelf.

I hate to be critical of people's work given I'm trying my hardest to write and develop my own style, as makes me feel hypocritical to lambaste someone else, but it's hands down the worst book I've ever read, by a long shot.

It only makes you a hypocrite if you believe your own work should not be criticized.

This. If Tony G's work is crap as far as your concerned, you do have the right to voice that opinion freely no matter how much you write yourself.

On a personal level, I'm not sure I've achieved making this clear or not, but my primary issue with Tony's work is not the quality of the works themselves, but the fact that they are based in the supposedly sand-box EVE online, and do a good job of pissing all over the box to ruin it and replace it with... well, some grand opera-grade scheme. Maybe that works in most other stories and books, but not in EVE's setting.

I doubt it is/was CCP's intention as they like to promote their sand-box setting, but that's how I see it. A sand-box universe is glued together by all the little stories adding to the whole, all the little castles. Tony's work demolishes their worth with his own mega-castle in the middle and we are expected to go along with this.

Eeeh, I'm not even sure right now where I was going with this, whining about it again. got to work on my metaphors. Anyhow, I'm assuming people here are more intelligent than me and get what I'm annoyed about just fine.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

On a personal level, I'm not sure I've achieved making this clear or not, but my primary issue with Tony's work is not the quality of the works themselves, but the fact that they are based in the supposedly sand-box EVE online, and do a good job of pissing all over the box to ruin it and replace it with... well, some grand opera-grade scheme. Maybe that works in most other stories and books, but not in EVE's setting.

I doubt it is/was CCP's intention as they like to promote their sand-box setting, but that's how I see it. A sand-box universe is glued together by all the little stories adding to the whole, all the little castles. Tony's work demolishes their worth with his own mega-castle in the middle and we are expected to go along with this.

Eeeh, I'm not even sure right now where I was going with this, whining about it again. got to work on my metaphors. Anyhow, I'm assuming people here are more intelligent than me and get what I'm annoyed about just fine.

Tony is the one saying that he wants big posters with pictures of Tibus Heth and Jamyl Sarum hanging next to Master Chief. The problem is that Tibus Heth and Jamyl Sarum aren't the stars of the Eve setting. The stars of Eve are Istvaan, Verone, the Mittani, Jade, Ladel, Hardin, Sir Molle...that's what he's forgetting. For me, anyway, good tie-in fiction (what little there is) is always about characters that show the potential of players, not that are basically 800 pages of exposition for metaplot wankery. Metaplot needs some mystery to keep the players interested. Revealing too much of the world behind the curtain is always a dangerous proposition, even if your metaplot is comparatively well written like say, my personal favorites Shadowrun and Heavy Gear. The players' collective imagination is almost always better than what you can come up with (at least to them).

[BloodBird]

Tony is the one saying that he wants big posters with pictures of Tibus Heth and Jamyl Sarum hanging next to Master Chief.

...

And my respect for Tony just dropped a bit more.

The reason John-117 is the 'hero' of the Halo series is, he found himself in a key position to influence the events of that universe positively for Humanity's survival in what is essentially an 'opera-grade' plot. A literal galaxy-killing danger and the main character of Halo 1-2-3 was there to help ensure things went the right way. THAT makes a 'hero' in a grand story like that.

Compared to that, Heth and Jamyl are both manipulative, lying false-faced pricks running their respective nations in ways that are detrimental to their neighbors and inciting to wars that kill millions. They are not part of any galaxy-scale plots and supposedly if they die that can and will be replaced by others equally as limited in their powers and hopefully a bit more balanced in mind. You are right, they are NOT main actors or heroes of their settings, matter of fact Heth as an example has done fuck-all to better his nation or his people in ways that were of great benefit to them, others could easily have done better.

If Tony don't realize the extreme differences in these two 'positions' in a setting then I'm honestly not sure what to say. I'm not sure I should be angry or pity him. Or if I should focus my 'WTF were you thinking' reaction towards CCP in general, even.

When/where exactly did he state/write something that stupid anyhow? I've not heard of that.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

...

And my respect for Tony just dropped a bit more.

The reason John-117 is the 'hero' of the Halo series is, he found himself in a key position to influence the events of that universe positively for Humanity's survival in what is essentially an 'opera-grade' plot. A literal galaxy-killing danger and the main character of Halo 1-2-3 was there to help ensure things went the right way. THAT makes a 'hero' in a grand story like that.

Compared to that, Heth and Jamyl are both manipulative, lying false-faced pricks running their respective nations in ways that are detrimental to their neighbors and inciting to wars that kill millions. They are not part of any galaxy-scale plots and supposedly if they die that can and will be replaced by others equally as limited in their powers and hopefully a bit more balanced in mind. You are right, they are NOT main actors or heroes of their settings, matter of fact Heth as an example has done fuck-all to better his nation or his people in ways that were of great benefit to them, others could easily have done better.

If Tony don't realize the extreme differences in these two 'positions' in a setting then I'm honestly not sure what to say. I'm not sure I should be angry or pity him. Or if I should focus my 'WTF were you thinking' reaction towards CCP in general, even.

When/where exactly did he state/write something that stupid anyhow? I've not heard of that.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3357

Bringing EVE to life through storytelling and world building has been one of my greatest joys. For the past six years, I’ve devoted myself to building this IP through the sheer power of her setting—hands down the most underutilized force in EVE. I walked the floors of conventions dreaming of the day when we might have a 30 foot tall poster of Tibus Heth or Empress Jamyl to compete with the larger-than-life icons of other IP’s like the Master Chief and Commander Sheppard. EVE’s story is so deep and offers so much to science fiction fans that it has every potential to reach those heights. It could take years, decades, or longer. But the fact remains that it’s possible. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know that’s kept me inspired since 2003.

[BloodBird]

Dear gods. I'm sorry Tony but if you want large posters about toons from EVE it would be far more realistic in context of the setting and far more helpful in promotion of the game to add posters of well-known long-serving characters who have stuck with and maintained their work for years.

In a single-shard sand-box game singular NPC characters don't make huge posters. Dedicated and well-known players, do. Make posters of the players whose efforts means they deserve and earned it along with short bits of info of who they are and why they deserve it, and you might well have a good recruitment drive.

"Poster; Rodji Blake. Long-serving and renowned Imperial, Rodji has served the Empire of Amarr faithfully for years in the face of daily harassment from the godless non-believers, heretics and traitors alike. Never wavering in his devotion he continues in his endeavors to protect and serve the Empire..." etc etc. Poster depicts Rodji like his player envision him, posing along with his most used/favorite ship and his corporate logo and slogan in the back.

I'd buy one I'd also buy one of dozens of others, but I'd never buy a freaking poster or whatever of Heth or Rodent or whoeverthefuck NPC happen to be around in whatever story. That's where Tony seem to have misunderstood entirely. This is not the Halo or Mass Effect universe. Those are awesome, but so it this one. And this one is very different. He don't seem to realize that.

[Bastian Valoron]

Tony is the one saying that he wants big posters with pictures of Tibus Heth and Jamyl Sarum hanging next to Master Chief. The problem is that Tibus Heth and Jamyl Sarum aren't the stars of the Eve setting. The stars of Eve are Istvaan, Verone, the Mittani, Jade, Ladel, Hardin, Sir Molle...that's what he's forgetting. For me, anyway, good tie-in fiction (what little there is) is always about characters that show the potential of players, not that are basically 800 pages of exposition for metaplot wankery. Metaplot needs some mystery to keep the players interested. Revealing too much of the world behind the curtain is always a dangerous proposition, even if your metaplot is comparatively well written like say, my personal favorites Shadowrun and Heavy Gear. The players' collective imagination is almost always better than what you can come up with (at least to them).

While I agree that players are and should be the real stars of EVE, I'm not sure if it's a good idea for the game company to promote selected player characters. People tend to react to these things in both predictable and unpredictable ways.

Having a single individual in full control of a freaking galactic empire smells a bit like the space feudalism trope. It simplifies things, debilitates politics and makes a nation more human and understandable - who wants to live in a New Eden like that?

In my imaginary poster, I'd portray more than a single individual, along with the coat of arms or other hallmarks of each empire, perhaps a bit like here


Go Guristas!


Go Heirs!

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I agree that promoting specific players isn't a good idea either, mostly for the reason that it puts you in danger of having people take their words and actions as representative of your company/game, which is dangerous (especially when you have folks like the Mittani out there, who realize the power that entails and enjoy fucking with it). To come extent, CCP does already promote players and player personalities as what sells the game, which is why the craziness of last summer was probably a lot more effective than it would be for say, WoW (aside from the smaller number of players in Eve meaning it's easier for a protest to gain critical mass).