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[Jade Constantine]

IRED, former Amarrian lapdogs and Caldari loyalists. 
I don't follow the IGS so was amused to see you flying with them.  v0v 

You remember when we fought the Kimotoro Directive and on chatsubo I framed it as a conflict between the Sandboxistas (Archbishop's consensual-only sandbox within a sandbox) and the heroic Dynamacists (roleplay without preconditions and tramlines)? Well part of the reason we fought was to introduce the roleplay community to the notion of realistic political development.

I mention this because I-RED have changed over the years and developed from Amarrian Allies to State Dissidents and now are considered -10 KOS by the Caldari Militia for their opposition to Heth and State Liberalist principles. In Star Fraction we've recognized these developments and done our bit to encourage and support them. We've a revolutionary movement, surely we should be encouraging dissident Caldari politics right?

The short version is when people's roleplay evolves and develops in reaction to events in game its right to open one's mind to react in turn. Such dynamacist thinking is what we once fought for you and Bacchanalian. Nowadays everything is doing it

 

[Sakaane Eionell]

All the above is just further reason why I love you to bits, Sakaane.

+1 Like

Oh wait, wrong forum. Drat.

Thanks Mammal. You're one of my favorites, did you know?


I think the RP situation overall will recover. Newbies like me and others do intend to promote our own storylines, which while potentially slow to get started will at some point (hopefully) gather enough steam to create opportunities to broaden out and attract/involve more people than at the start. It seems to me that SF always has some RP potential going on and a number of groups can spring off it if they choose. Everybody else maybe just needs a break or a chance to reset. What's that saying? Every twenty minutes in conversation there's a natural pause? Maybe this is the RP equivalent.

[John Revenent]

Secondly, our potential target availability has dropped significantly. Earlier in the year placid was full of pirate groups roaming with 10-20 man fleets and bite-sized gate camps were oppressing travellers at all the hisec/lowsec junctions. It was a target rich environment that we often struggled to win against and in away that was a good thing because it made us evolve our tactics and try to find ways to fight outnumbered and often out-blinged. These days the pirates are relatively scarce and potential RP territorialist/enclosurist organizations to wardec rarer still. So that does have the danger of spiralling to a mutually-reinforcing decline.

You know, teaming up with Caldari loyalists doesn't really help your target situation.   

Do you have an example in mind?

IRED, former Amarrian lapdogs and Caldari loyalists. 

I don't follow the IGS so was amused to see you flying with them.  v0v 

We set each other neutral some time ago [Yes we are still neutral to eachother even now.] A joint operation to disrupt pirate activities in Placid does not seem to far fetched.

We have one thing in common that is we both want to see the gates clear of pirates, I-RED wants this to allow more access to the Intaki Market. I am sure SF have their own reasons.

[Bacchanalian]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too. 

[Altarr Orkot]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too.

Pretty sure we still aren't anti-State.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too.

Anti Provist does not mean anti-State.
Anti-Heth does not mean anti-State.
Anti-STPRO (and only certain parts of STPRO, I might add... most of it is still neutral.) does not mean anti-State

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this. You don't have to love the current government to love the nation. This is a fact seen all over the world, all throughout history. It is the driving point behind many of history's greatest revolutions and rebellions.

EDIT: To make a point, I should clarify that we are not revolutionaries or rebels. We operate well within State law. We just don't agree with Heth or his policies. We're a legitimate member of the Caldari Liberal faction. Just as there is a very legal and accepted Practical faction that doesn't particularly like Heth either. Patriots and Provists aren't the only legitimate citizens of the State. They're merely the loudest, since they're in power.

[John Revenent]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too.

Funny.

[Jade Constantine]

Secondly, our potential target availability has dropped significantly. Earlier in the year placid was full of pirate groups roaming with 10-20 man fleets and bite-sized gate camps were oppressing travellers at all the hisec/lowsec junctions. It was a target rich environment that we often struggled to win against and in away that was a good thing because it made us evolve our tactics and try to find ways to fight outnumbered and often out-blinged. These days the pirates are relatively scarce and potential RP territorialist/enclosurist organizations to wardec rarer still. So that does have the danger of spiralling to a mutually-reinforcing decline.

You know, teaming up with Caldari loyalists doesn't really help your target situation.   

Do you have an example in mind?

IRED, former Amarrian lapdogs and Caldari loyalists. 

I don't follow the IGS so was amused to see you flying with them.  v0v 

We set each other neutral some time ago [Yes we are still neutral to eachother even now.] A joint operation to disrupt pirate activities in Placid does not seem to far fetched.

We have one thing in common that is we both want to see the gates clear of pirates, I-RED wants this to allow more access to the Intaki Market. I am sure SF have their own reasons.

Not a million miles from I-RED's motive really. We've always been pro-commerce and economic development and the regressive gate-camping pirate alliances in Placid are in the way of business. Part of SF's revolutionary agenda has been encouraging businessmen, traders, industrialists and explorers to take their defence into their own hands and strike back against oppressors and for us its great to see progressive commercial interests taking the fight to the bad guys.

Was good to work with you guys last night also, it was surprisingly smooth and my complements to your alliance mates!

[Lyn Farel]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too.

Anti Provist does not mean anti-State.
Anti-Heth does not mean anti-State.
Anti-STPRO (and only certain parts of STPRO, I might add... most of it is still neutral.) does not mean anti-State

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this. You don't have to love the current government to love the nation. This is a fact seen all over the world, all throughout history. It is the driving point behind many of history's greatest revolutions and rebellions.

EDIT: To make a point, I should clarify that we are not revolutionaries or rebels. We operate well within State law. We just don't agree with Heth or his policies. We're a legitimate member of the Caldari Liberal faction. Just as there is a very legal and accepted Practical faction that doesn't particularly like Heth either. Patriots and Provists aren't the only legitimate citizens of the State. They're merely the loudest, since they're in power.

Bah, its always the same thing, you will have people taking your ideals for what they are when you are actually working on things from the inside (yeah, not everyone is a damn patriot, and this in every faction), and people thinking in black and white "you are not 100% with us, so you are against us".

[Bacchanalian]

To make a point, I should clarify that we are not revolutionaries or rebels. We're a legitimate member of the Caldari Liberal faction.

And this is where I get confused about you being in bed with Star Fraction.

[Jade Constantine]

To make a point, I should clarify that we are not revolutionaries or rebels. We're a legitimate member of the Caldari Liberal faction.

And this is where I get confused about you being in bed with Star Fraction.

It shouldn't be that confusing, of the nationalist ideologies closest to Fraction ideals you can list Matari radicals, intaki separatists and caldari liberals. I think you need to remember that the Fraction is not one of these "burn-everything nihilist sects" that some of our spin-off descendants turned into. Star Fraction movement believes in constructive persuasion and economic cooperation as a means of furthering our influence and ideology alongside direct action in space against the regressive hardcore adherents of nationalist dogma.

We've spoken for the last three years now at the Otro Gariushi memorials http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrbZJ1n9fL4&feature=related and publicised our feelings on state liberalism quite widely.

Quite honestly you weaken yourself criticically as a revolutionary if you fail to reward progressive signs of change with cooperation and friendship where it is warrented. New Eden has some real villains to be fought.

[Graelyn]

*cough*

Split the thread or somethin'...

[orange]

Knew you'd dropped the Amarrians, but I had no idea you were anti-Caldari State now too.

Anti Provist does not mean anti-State.
Anti-Heth does not mean anti-State.
Anti-STPRO (and only certain parts of STPRO, I might add... most of it is still neutral.) does not mean anti-State

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this. You don't have to love the current government to love the nation. This is a fact seen all over the world, all throughout history. It is the driving point behind many of history's greatest revolutions and rebellions.

EDIT: To make a point, I should clarify that we are not revolutionaries or rebels. We operate well within State law. We just don't agree with Heth or his policies. We're a legitimate member of the Caldari Liberal faction. Just as there is a very legal and accepted Practical faction that doesn't particularly like Heth either. Patriots and Provists aren't the only legitimate citizens of the State. They're merely the loudest, since they're in power.

Note, the Practical faction is not exactly anti-Heth.

Heth is at the head of KK, which is nominally the lead corporation of the Patriot political faction.  Lots of things that Heth has done the Patriots wanted to do, but not necessarily in the way it is being done.  I try not to portray LDIS as Provist, but I completely understand the Lai Dai/Patriot position being construed as Provist.

[Julianus Soter]

Can we stop pyramid quoting a ten paragraph essay? It's becoming prohibitively frustrating to bother reading many of the posts in this thread.

Thanks.

There is lots of RP going on, it's just that the public arena of RP can largely be equated to /b/. Shock posts, attempting to gather reactions, using the freedom and relative anonymity of alts to generate drama on a daily basis for the benefit of their twisted sense of humor. Welcome to the Summit and IGS.

So many of us try to avoid that region of affairs. Many people don't comment on IGS threads simply because certain individuals will use it as an opportunity to gerrymander offense to said comment, for the purpose of pointless wardecs, angst, or other idiocy.

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

[Louella Dougans]

If, for example, someone was roleplaying the formation of an industrial corporation to help rebuild the Seyllin system, and made a call for investors to do so, then you'd get 2 offers for genuine support and about eight to declare their intentions to destroy it.

and how many of those 10 responses then go on to actually do anything about it? Anything at all?