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Author Topic: Kuhmbelaa  (Read 9184 times)

Julianus Soter

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Kuhmbelaa
« on: 23 Dec 2010, 08:16 »

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1435878

"As most of you know, Kumhbelaa has begun, and will continue for eleven days."

I'm curious as to the rationale for this sort of couching of user-generated information. Anyone from the IPI want to share?
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Milo Caman

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #1 on: 23 Dec 2010, 08:22 »

Immersion?
I had a really good article on it submitted, so I'm happy to roll with it.
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #2 on: 23 Dec 2010, 08:33 »

Could you elaborate on the immersion aspect a bit?
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Casiella

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #3 on: 23 Dec 2010, 09:50 »

Eh. It's a big cluster. I imagine there are a lot of various holidays and festivities.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #4 on: 23 Dec 2010, 10:06 »

Is there someplace in EVE fiction that patently invalidates the concept?

Is your crusade against anything CCP didn't specifically make themselves yet provides enjoyment to many ever going to end?

How does this one personally inconvenience you?

What absurd doomsday scenario do you envision taking place this time?

It is a holiday celebration, you couldn't be more of a Scrooge about this.
« Last Edit: 23 Dec 2010, 10:08 by Syylara/Yaansu »
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #5 on: 23 Dec 2010, 10:10 »

And in none of your post was there any reference to the outstanding question at hand for this thread. What benefit is it to immersion to claim that everyone knows about a piece of player-created information?
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #6 on: 23 Dec 2010, 10:29 »

are you saying it should not have said "As most of you know", but instead "As many of you may know" ?
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #7 on: 23 Dec 2010, 10:38 »

And in none of your post was there any reference to the outstanding question at hand for this thread. What benefit is it to immersion to claim that everyone knows about a piece of player-created information?

I'm at a loss to figure out why this needs to be explained to you.

Cultural celebrations happen.

Cultural celebrations happening in EVE is therefor more reflective of real life.

Was that hard?
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Casiella

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #8 on: 23 Dec 2010, 10:43 »

[mod]From the FAQ:
Quote
Q: What's the difference between debate and argument? A: Debate or discussion involves people putting forward their ideas and opinions. Argument is when people start fighting over whose ideas or opinions are 'right'. For example, if you find yourself responding to a post with anything along the lines of 'You're wrong, because...', stop and think. Don't sit there working out what's wrong with someone else's idea. Propose your own, and tell us all the ways in which it's awesome. Everybody wins a discussion: nobody wins an argument.Q: So I can't disagree with anyone's RP? A: Sure you can disagree. Just do it politely, I'll even venture to say nicely, and remember that they have as much right to their opinion as you have to yours. For example: Player A writes: "I see the Intaki as space hippies." Player B answers: "Of course they aren't space hippies, there are no hippies in Eve." That would be the WRONG way to answer. The RIGHT way would be something like "Really? I see the Intaki as more techno-buddhists. That's how I play my character, but hey, it's a big Cluster, right?"  
Undermining people's ideas for the sake of it, rather than pointing out valid options and posting constructively, violates the guidelines for this site. Further problems will result in moderation of posts in this thread.[/mod]
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Julianus Soter

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #9 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:01 »

Clarifying my point to Louella. A person logs into IGS, begins reading threads. They click on the one in question. The preamble of the thread indicates that the player's character knows about the festival, even if the player does not. This is a imposition that only the owners of the universe can apply to us. They create the universe, and they set the bounds of what our characters know or can know through context, prime fiction, and other information.

In this situation, the character implies that this is prime fiction information known to characters, and that if they do not, they are ignorant of basic common cultural practices in the universe. Is it any different from saying that you've punched someone in the face at the bar, or used nanobots to infect a CEO and take over his brain? In each circumstance, you surprise the player by imparting a new constriction to their character's universe, either by imparting injury or commanding their actions.

It is because of these observations that I have made my questions to the IPI and other creators of this thread on the IGS.
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Inara Subaka

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #10 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:08 »

And in none of your post was there any reference to the outstanding question at hand for this thread. What benefit is it to immersion to claim that everyone knows about a piece of player-created information?

This is far fromthe first "player created" holiday, and I'm sure it will not be the last. For example, Vaden Khale created one called Sabikannen (sp?) that, even though he doesn't play anymore, is still noted/observed by some other Sani Sabik characters now.

He's not claiming every single person everywhere knows, you're taking things a bit too literally; recommeded cure, have a beer.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #11 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:16 »

Not addressing the original point, but in regards to the actual holiday...a bit of food for thought and suggestion

Why would it be set around the RL holiday season? The Intaki calendar probably didn't use the modern day one until it was agreed internationally, so there likely wouldn't be any correlation to the RL Christmas season. I think only the Amarrians would have something in relation to Christmas IMO.
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Casiella

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #12 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:19 »

I doubt the Intaki (or anyone else) would have only one holiday, so there's also nothing to suggest that they couldn't have something that happened to coincide with the Old Earth solstice celebrations by chance.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #13 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:22 »

The preamble of the thread indicates that the player's character knows about the festival, even if the player does not.

It does not remotely say that.

Somehow you read the words "As you, the reader of this posting, are obviously aware..." when what was written is literally "as most of you know."  If anything, it is a fault of Mammal Tafren, the character, in being a (tiny) bit presumptive.  Being raised an Intaki, of course he has the outlook that "most" people know about Kuhmbelaa.  That just further leads to immersion because again, we run into this kind of anecdotal outlook all the time.

Quote
This is a imposition that only the owners of the universe can apply to us. They create the universe, and they set the bounds of what our characters know or can know through context, prime fiction, and other information.

This isn't your issue with it, its the vaporous construct you're hiding behind to justify your righteous indignation.  If you really felt this way, there'd be about 500 more posts from you tearing down every last player-created idea put forward.

(voluntary removal of non-constructive words)

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In this situation, the character implies that this is prime fiction information known to characters, and that if they do not, they are ignorant of basic common cultural practices in the universe.

The character implies it.

So talk to the character about it rather than creating yet another "ur doin it wrung" OOC post.

Also, again, nowhere does it even remotely imply that "if you don't know about Kuhmbelaa, you must be ignorant".  I've heard of fishing for compliments, this is fishing for insults.

Quote
Is it any different from saying that you've punched someone in the face at the bar, or used nanobots to infect a CEO and take over his brain? In each circumstance, you surprise the player by imparting a new constriction to their character's universe, either by imparting injury or commanding their actions.

Yes, it is entirely and completely different.  Equating someone saying "as most of you know, holiday x is coming up" with punching a person in the face takes an incredible leap of reasoning.

How is this holiday being celebrated "constricting" your RP at all?  You have a real penchant for claiming injury without proving it.  What activity was it you were intending to engage in that has now been denied you because of this?

If we could understand how this injures your RP experience in some more constructive way, it could actually get addressed.  But as long as it stays in the form of False Equivalency and Slippery Slope fallacies, there is no solution at hand.
« Last Edit: 23 Dec 2010, 11:30 by Syylara/Yaansu »
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Kuhmbelaa
« Reply #14 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:24 »

Not addressing the original point, but in regards to the actual holiday...a bit of food for thought and suggestion

Why would it be set around the RL holiday season? The Intaki calendar probably didn't use the modern day one until it was agreed internationally, so there likely wouldn't be any correlation to the RL Christmas season. I think only the Amarrians would have something in relation to Christmas IMO.

It is on every 5th 600 some-odd day years.

It has nothing to do with RL Christmas.
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