Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Eran Mintor]

IC and OOC boundaries will always have some blurriness to them. Let me give you an example:

Suppose that you had a member of your corporation set up a "victory parade" for your corp, where you would all make a series of jumps through several systems in you most expensive ships. Now, after this has all been set up ICly, your member contacts you an hour before the flight, and says "hey, this is OOC, but I just wanted you to know that me and some buddies are ambushing you and are gonna kill you and all of your corpies. We anticipate great loot. Oh, and we know your clone isn't up to date, so anticipate losing some SP. Now, you can't tell anyone, or do anything about it, 'cause this is OOC, and the planning was IC! Kthnxbai."

Tell me, are you going to go to your podding and associated loss of wealth and SP with head held high in your belief in the IC/OOC divide? Uh-uh, didn't think so.

Ok, what if you read this in a blog? What if you read their plans in a story?

Jade is waging a propaganda war - almost everyone not a fractionite is ultimately an enemy of his character, and he will use any advantage to conduct his propaganda war as well as his spaceship wars. He's playing to win. And there is nothing wrong with that. It may offend you, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that.

I'm going to focus on the last bit, because that seems most relevant as this discussion really is about IC and OOC divide. If someone tells you, as you stated, some intel that is "OOC only", it would not matter if you acted upon it and responded to it tactically.[/quote]

We need to define IC (In Character) and OOC (Out of character). Most players in EVE are OOC players, meaning they don't have a personality in the game, but a player outside of the game who really does whatever they want. If someone gave me "OOC Intel" like you stated, there is no reason I wouldn't act upon it as a gamer to divert a potential casualty. However, we are talking about Roleplay, which is not the same as being PVP. Yes, PVP and RP are often tied together, but 1) your example in no way reflects the way Jade is abusing OOC knowledge as it doesn't have anything to do with PVP and 2) When blogs are said to be OOC knowledge, you should not assume that you suddenly have access to you IC (In Character). If you want OOC knowledge about it, that's fine, because if the blog is public you already have OOC knowledge.

My problem is when people Roleplay (play IC - In Character) with OOC (out of character) knowledge. This really has nothing to do with PVP or PVP-centric intel. This is, as you said, being a "propaganda" tool and using all the dirty info you can pick up. If you want to post Shalee's blog on COAD, go ahead, as that is an OOC forums, but if you want to post it on the IGS (and IC forums), you are crossing the IC/OCC divide when it is not necessary.

Yes, Jade and may other EVE players play the game "to win", but I cannot accept them as RPers if they cross the IC/OCC divide to do so.

[Vieve]

Oh, hell, not this again.

I dont understand why a moderator is warning us that this thread is going to go into the "deep-end". Are you really that afraid of a civilized discussion about how RP'ers should act? If this thread gets locked, this forums serves little purpose, because where else can RP'ers discuss RP without fear of being muted?

I suspect this might be the first discussion of this kind that you've seen.  Trust me, every single one of them I've seen has degenerated into a vicious flame war.

Seriously, look at your own reaction to all this -- and you're a pretty mellow guy.  

[Eran Mintor]

My suggestion is this Viv - as much as I want to blow a gasket over people agreeing with Jade's reaction I won't, simply because I want a DISCUSSION.

This forum is not meant for flame wars, so let's be grown-ups and not take it there. Really, this thread is about OOC and IC divide, not Shalee, not Jade, not any individual, but how RP should be done when you have this resource called "The Internets".

[Graanvlokkie]

If you are posting stories about upcoming in space opperations and hopeing the info is not going to be used, then you will be in for a surprise. This info is impossible to ignore when it comes to you attention OOC.

If its info about your charaters background being used as propaganda against you, well, all I can say is that it is impossible to "win in RP". I dont understand how people can say that thier motivation to win on IGS is greater than thier motivation to write fiction and in a sense expand thier RP.

[Eran Mintor]

My issue is not "winning the IGS", or "winning RP", but pulling OOC information out of your ass to use it IC.

[Graanvlokkie]

My issue is not "winning the IGS", or "winning RP", but pulling OOC information out of your ass to use it IC.

But the only reason it is done is to win at RP. So you are essentially destroying a possible RP encounter to try and win it.

[Eran Mintor]

Graan, I really don't understand what you are saying - please elaborate.

As food for thought, tell me if this is RP, or acceptable RPer action, while you're at it :

 [ 2010.10.17 23:46:48 ] EVE System > Channel changed to YWS0-Z Local Channel
 [ 2010.10.17 23:53:19 ] Jade Constantine > http://mintor.blogspot.com/2010/08/blank.html is this down to Shalee Lianne  ?
 [ 2010.10.17 23:53:34 ] Saul Dhampir > Eeeeeeemooo
 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:06 ] Jade Constantine > I was trying to understand what you are saying there Eran - is it that you became a race traitor for the love of that woman?
 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:21 ] Eran Mintor > (that bloog isnt IC knowledge)
 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:33 ] Jade Constantine > it is to us
 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:44 ] Eran Mintor > (good for you then lol)
 [ 2010.10.17 23:55:09 ] Jade Constantine > so are you talking about Shalee Lianne ?
 [ 2010.10.17 23:55:51 ] Eran Mintor > (the trolling is weak in this one)
 [ 2010.10.17 23:56:05 ] Jade Constantine > whats with the brackets?
 [ 2010.10.17 23:56:07 ] Saul Dhampir > this from one of teh 'fag feaction' crowd
 [ 2010.10.17 23:56:16 ] Saul Dhampir > *fraction
 [ 2010.10.17 23:56:24 ] Axen Vormar > ferocious autocannon gunners?
 [ 2010.10.17 23:58:07 ] Jade Constantine > its not "trolling" anyway Eran, just one of the more interesting things I've seen you write

[Eran Mintor]

I should highlight this part:

 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:21 ] Eran Mintor > (that bloog isnt IC knowledge)
 [ 2010.10.17 23:54:33 ] Jade Constantine > it is to us

Edit : just sayin, if someone was RPing with you and said, "X PERSON knows everything about you before you even met them due to your OOC blog!", would you say "okay, you win at RP.....fuck"

Or would you laugh in their face and call them a troll?

P.S. You already know what I'd do cuz I already did it.

[Ciarente]

Given that my blog is published in the year 2010 on the planet earth, any Eve character who claims to know the contents is clearly insane ...

[Eran Mintor]

Lol thank you for the beneficial post.

P.S. If it goes there, let it be known I wasn't the one who made this into a flame-fest, but the one who tried to have a discussion.

[Bong-cha Jones]

My blog isn't published at all in the Eve world, in terms of it being accessible.  On the other hand, it does exist in the world (of my thought bubble rp), so I guess somebody could read it.  On the other other hand, they'd have to stage a raid to steal the souped-up datapad Simon keeps under his pillow on board his flagship on the off chance it'd contain something useful... which is funny enough that I'd probably let them explain how/why they did that in whatever thread they happened to drop that little bombshell in.

If they linked to it, I'd just report it as an OOC link and hope the mods dealt with it, since Simon's blog isn't actually hosted on an Eve version of the internet.  If they just meta'd it, I'd have to decide if it was fun or not before I acted.  In any event, I tend to vague things up a bit on my blog, just in case.  It fits what Simon would do, if for different reasons.

[Ciarente]

your member contacts you an hour before the flight, and says "hey, this is OOC, but I just wanted you to know that me and some buddies are ambushing you and are gonna kill you and all of your corpies. We anticipate great loot. Oh, and we know your clone isn't up to date, so anticipate losing some SP. Now, you can't tell anyone, or do anything about it, 'cause this is OOC, and the planning was IC! Kthnxbai."

Vik, you did tell me OOC you were going to pod me before doing it IC ...

[Raphael Saint]

If Jade operates under the mantra of "if I can find it on the internet it's fair game," than I think this (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=995.0;viewResults) little outcry of his becomes quite the laugh.

[Eran Mintor]

Well, so double standards seem to be the play of the day.

By the way, Giants won the World Series, GO GIANTS!

All this talk of "convictions" is simply counter to the interests of any kind of consenual roleplay here because I as a player simply do not recognize web address stuff as IC evidence...

I doubt this changes any minds, but am I wrong when I say if you find something on the internet that shouldn't be IC accessible (an OOC blog) and use it as IC knowledge, that's bad roleplay? Jade even seems to agree with me.

Edit : More fun stuff

I have changed the file names and locations of all the files involved and ensured that the usual IGS suspects are linking posters from World of Tanks - and will continue to change the graphics to be ridiculous ooc things because my web space belongs to me and you all have no right to consider it an IC existence unless I give you permission.

Am I not saying something very similar?

[lallara zhuul]

All in all, you cannot change how someone else plays the game.

You cannot change their actions, you cannot change how they react.

You can only change your own actions and how you react.

If you feel that they are trolls, then treat them as trolls, don't feed them.
If you feel that they are not roleplayers, then stop any and all IC interaction with them.
If you feel like you could make them change, then go see someone about your co-dependency.

There is plenty of information related to this kind of clash on the way that you play EVE on EVE related forums.
You can find out easily enough how people have tried to deal with a situation like this, because it arises time and again, and how it has affected it in the long run.

Remember, only thing that you can do is change how you react to this situation.

Of course I do not deny the fact that this is an emotional issue, having the feeling that someone is pissing on something as arbitrary as common decency is bound to get your hackles up and get people involved, if not because of the issue, then because of the shared emotion linked to events like these is easy to relate to.
I think this is what the moderation was referring to when they warned that this thread might go pear shaped soon.
The thread has already started to smoke, it would take very little to turn it into a thread of flames and fury.

Chatlogs, naming of names, emotional language that people can relate to, reopening old arguments, all without the other view on this whole issue being represented.

It's not kosher.

Anyhoos, off to hunt for brekkies.