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Author Topic: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.  (Read 7716 times)

Shalee Lianne

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Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« on: 01 Nov 2010, 23:09 »

I'm at odds on what to do when Jade Constantine has read a story on my blog and assumes his character can automatically know something from it.

I would be more likely to understand if say, it was an actual journal/recording of something and that it was hacked, even if that would be borderline meta-gaming.

But to read a story and then take something from that is just pure cheating. 

It's just stories, and you can't take that information and act like it is a 'public memoir' when it is not.

The blog plainly is labeled, and has been since it's creation, as out-of-character information.

Would you do that to Verone? Would you prance around and pretend your character knows all of the things he's wrote about in his back history stories?  No.  Because your character wasn't there.  Because they are stories.  Not public memoirs.  Just like my blog is an on going story.  NOT a public memoir.

So please.  Stop your cheating.

- Shalee
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orange

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #1 on: 01 Nov 2010, 23:19 »

FYI, the discussion has been had before and Jade's player has stated he views any material as fair game.
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Graelyn

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #2 on: 01 Nov 2010, 23:37 »

There is a reason Jade occupies the position in the RP community that he has.
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Shalee Lianne

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #3 on: 01 Nov 2010, 23:46 »

Well.  That is really pathetic.

I tend to stay away from the IGS anyhow, I just can't keep up with all that is posted, but someone pointed out where my character was mentioned in his post.  Okay fine, Shalee responds, all in-character.  I don't know Jade OOC, so it's just ic banter on my part.  Fine and dandy. 

But I'm not having this cheating, nupe.  I will not stand for it just because Jade arbitrarily decides he can use stories at whim.  No.  It's wrong, it's cheating, and if he wants to go down that road I swear to God I'll spend the rest of my EVE days writing blogs about Jade, all untrue stuff, and claiming it is fact.  If he wants to play the troll game, then I'll play on that level.

Don't push me.
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Eran Mintor

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #4 on: 01 Nov 2010, 23:58 »

I have had a very similar problem.

Jade seems to think that if it's on the internet, its IC knowledge and he can do anything he wants. The problem is, nobody wants to RP with a meta-gamer. If you want to RP as a meta-gamer, RPers will do this  :bash:

This is not an IC problem, but an OOC one. By doing such things, you are making a bad name for yourself as an RPer to the point nobody will consider you an RPer, but just a troll. Consider carefully what you want to be.
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #5 on: 02 Nov 2010, 00:44 »

Old issue. I've had an identical experience.

Jade is very convinced of his own "rightness" on this issue. I wouldn't bother trying to change his mind.

Walk away. Find someone else to interact with. He's not worth the time or trouble.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #6 on: 02 Nov 2010, 01:29 »

Trying to fight fire with fire, or interact with someone who tries playing this way, is a waste of your time, Shalee. If Jade's pulling this sort of thing on IGS, don't respond to it, report the post as having OOC content. The GM team have already made their position clear on this issue - they don't agree with that tactic. However, responding to the post legitimizes it, and they won't do anything if you do.

What you should do for now is lock down your blog(s) instead - if you're using blogspot/blogger, go to your dashboard, click "settings", then go to the "permissions" tab and select "only people I choose" in the options for "Blog Readers".

You'll have to give access by hand to everyone who requests it (that you want to have it), but it should help solve the problem.
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Grr

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #7 on: 02 Nov 2010, 01:36 »

I agree that information like this should not be used and I'd never consciously use such info myself.  I expect the same is true for most here.

However I'll play devils advocate here and say it's not anybodies place to say its the wrong way to RP so bluntly.  Worth a look at the FAQ to get a better idea of how to criticize somebody’s way of roleplaying constructively.

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?action=page;id=4
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Benjamin Shepherd

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #8 on: 02 Nov 2010, 02:07 »

I have not experienced this personally, but I would follow suit with the advice you are given here. Jade roleplays in a very unique way.
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Eran Mintor

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #9 on: 02 Nov 2010, 02:08 »

Unique meaning what?
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Vikarion

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #10 on: 02 Nov 2010, 02:28 »

I see some people sharpening the knives. Let's not.

If you want to attack Jade, go elsewhere. This crap is exactly why I (we?) left Chatsubo.

Jade considers all accessible character info as IC. That's fact. He states that he believes it is the most reasonable outlook to have, since doing otherwise puts you at a disadvantage against others who can't hold to a relatively blurry IC/OOC line. So if you don't want Jade (and, by extension, the rest of SF) using what you write, block them, or don't write stories, or don't write about your own characters.

Jade has a point - I've personally been on the receiving end of OOC to IC shenanigans (or at least it sure appeared that way). The other side has a point too: Jade's views pretty much pour weed killer on the frail flower of well-written player fiction.

But nothing is going to change by trolling on your blog, or arguing here. No one is going to change their views (at least, judging from the statements made here and elsewhere). You have solutions, pursue them.

Personally, since I don't trust Jade or Soter or many of my other IC enemies to keep hands off, I deleted every damning entry in my blog (read, all of them) and simply stopped writing eve fiction to any extent. It has, as one might expect, been a successful countermeasure. Arvo Katsuya, on the other hand, passwords posts that he feels are "sensitive", another - and perhaps more reasonable - approach.
« Last Edit: 02 Nov 2010, 02:31 by Vikarion »
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Eran Mintor

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #11 on: 02 Nov 2010, 02:36 »

I strongly disagree on most of what you say Vik, yet I agree on a few things, namely :

"The other side has a point too: Jade's views pretty much pour weed killer on the frail flower of well-written player fiction. "

What you are saying is people should stop writing PF to keep others from abusing the OOC info they acquire from OOG resources?

No, I do not understand Jade's perspective at all. Please tell me, or Jade tell me, how this is acceptable, because right now it makes no sense.

And I understand this forums was meant to be different than chatsubo, but how is it going to be different? Because people won't bring up issues where there are some?

To me, Backstage was created to be a forums similar to Chatsubo, but also where the flames-fest didn't exist. This is not a flame-fest, but a discussion, and I don't see how Jade's RP is acceptable. This should be a forums for adults to discuss RP, not a forums that people ignore basic RP rules and tell others to forget about it.

Edit: After reading your edited post, I have a few things to say.

1) I'd like to point at my main point again : "What you are saying is people should stop writing PF to keep others from abusing the OOC info they acquire from OOG resources?"

That is crap. If people don't know how to RP, they need to be taught how it works. You said yourself you stopped posting PF because you're worried about others using that info against you IC - doesn't that bother you? Doesn't that seem WRONG?

2) My hope here is not to change Jade's mind, because his mind is set in stone - he is stubborn and will think no different. My hope is to change the minds of people like you. This kind of RP is not acceptable. You cannot justify this kind of RP, while being a victim of it yourself, unless you wish to see RP fall into the "lolrp" category that so many of us have run into.

3) IC and OOC boundaries need to be clear.
« Last Edit: 02 Nov 2010, 02:41 by Eran Mintor »
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #12 on: 02 Nov 2010, 02:59 »

[mod]this thread has potential to turn pear shaped fast. Please be careful[/mod]
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Vikarion

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #13 on: 02 Nov 2010, 03:04 »

1) I'd like to point at my main point again : "What you are saying is people should stop writing PF to keep others from abusing the OOC info they acquire from OOG resources?"

That is crap. If people don't know how to RP, they need to be taught how it works. You said yourself you stopped posting PF because you're worried about others using that info against you IC - doesn't that bother you? Doesn't that seem WRONG?

No. It's a pure cost/benefit analysis: do I enjoy winning on IGS and in Eve more, or freedom to write what I want?  The former. Others have other goals. It's not within my ability to force Jade to do as I will (that would require a real-life force or authority, most likely), nor is it worth the time and effort to estrange him in-game. Therefore, from a purely logical standpoint, my most effective remedy is to remove his access to sensitive information.  

Quote from: Eran Mintor
My hope here is not to change Jade's mind, because his mind is set in stone - he is stubborn and will think no different. My hope is to change the minds of people like you. This kind of RP is not acceptable. You cannot justify this kind of RP, while being a victim of it yourself, unless you wish to see RP fall into the "lolrp" category that so many of us have run into.

What you think of Jade as a person in real life has no place in this discussion.

That said, you are not the arbiter of what is or is not acceptable RP. What defines "acceptable RP" is the amount of people willing to embrace that style (and, to some extent, CCP). And you have not provided a reasonable connection between the use of OOC information in IC settings and the degeneration of RP - you have merely stated it as fact.

If it is harmful, it is harmful because it enforces a sense of "total war" in the community, and forces people into cliques and groups to protect themselves. That may or may not be damaging to RP on the whole: on one hand, people would communicate with others outside their group less, but on the other hand, when people do change allegiances, it would have much more impact.

Quote from: Eran Mintor
IC and OOC boundaries need to be clear.

IC and OOC boundaries will always have some blurriness to them. Let me give you an example:

Suppose that you had a member of your corporation set up a "victory parade" for your corp, where you would all make a series of jumps through several systems in you most expensive ships. Now, after this has all been set up ICly, your member contacts you an hour before the flight, and says "hey, this is OOC, but I just wanted you to know that me and some buddies are ambushing you and are gonna kill you and all of your corpies. We anticipate great loot. Oh, and we know your clone isn't up to date, so anticipate losing some SP. Now, you can't tell anyone, or do anything about it, 'cause this is OOC, and the planning was IC! Kthnxbai."

Tell me, are you going to go to your podding and associated loss of wealth and SP with head held high in your belief in the IC/OOC divide? Uh-uh, didn't think so.

Ok, what if you read this in a blog? What if you read their plans in a story?

Jade is waging a propaganda war - almost everyone not a fractionite is ultimately an enemy of his character, and he will use any advantage to conduct his propaganda war as well as his spaceship wars. He's playing to win. And there is nothing wrong with that. It may offend you, but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that.
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Eran Mintor

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Re: Blogs & Stories and when it is cheating.
« Reply #14 on: 02 Nov 2010, 03:05 »

I dont understand why a moderator is warning us that this thread is going to go into the "deep-end". Are you really that afraid of a civilized discussion about how RP'ers should act? If this thread gets locked, this forums serves little purpose, because where else can RP'ers discuss RP without fear of being muted?
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