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Kiaor was a notable Minmatar historical figure attributed with saying, "Those whom you hate so fervently, you must have once loved so deeply."

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Author Topic: Does character gender make a difference ?  (Read 10187 times)

Adreena Madeveda

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #60 on: 28 Dec 2012, 08:48 »

If Synthia and Niccolo can be compared, the differences in the treatment they receive goes, in my opinion, beyond the male/female thing.
Niccolo was (is ?) a cartoonish, mustache-twirling villain. One of his description in The Summit was a carbon copy of the illusive man : smoking cigarettes and drinking whisky in his comfy chair, planet in the background. On both sides of the screen, my reaction was "Oh, come on !"

On the other hand, the way you roleplay Synthia... She's weird, she makes unpredictable, baffling statements : simply put, on the player side, you crack me up with that toon.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #61 on: 28 Dec 2012, 09:00 »

Adreena more or less got it. While gender certainly plays a part, in this case it's mostly how the two act. Synthia is a very odd sort of person (putting it lightly) but she is also civil and polite almost to a fault. Niccolo was not, so when he did something outlandish and, well, dumb, people picked up the bats and started beating on him because he'd provided a justification for the action that words alone didn't justify.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #62 on: 28 Dec 2012, 09:10 »

I believe Synthia is probably treated far more gently than she would if she was a male character.

There was an incident recently, where a male Gallente character was doing some curious things relating to connecting his brain to a rogue drone thing.
iirc, it did not turn out at all well.
People were very hostile towards that particular character.

Yet Synthia is seemingly considered one of the more well regarded users of "the Summit". Is it just her calm, polite manner? or is it because she's a pleasant (if somewhat plain) looking youngish woman. Or has that appearance, anyway.

I think it might be more that Synthia is almost a black box. She didn't appear as a 'human' at first and then try to plug dronebits into her noggin, she was already a drone thingie when she showed up. She acts very very alien, and thus people aren't sure whether she's just a demented capsuleer that thinks she's a drone, or if she's actually a drone. Its like the difference between rolling a Minmatar character and saying you're minmatar, and rolling an Amarrian character and claiming you're actually minmatar.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #63 on: 28 Dec 2012, 15:55 »

Synthia seems mostly harmless to people's eyes. Like Valerie and the other CTCS.

The other one however...

But just try to make Synthia sound serious and things might change a lot. I think the crux of the matter lies in the fact that gallente guy mostly seemed serious, where Synthia and the rest of CTCS sound too much silly and joyful to seem really serious.

If it is not serious ICly in Eve, it's ok. Start making it sound serious and people reactions will naturally adapt and reply seriously too.

She may really think she is serious, and that's why make people giggle, because everyone seem to assume that the character is just silly in her own way. In my experience at least.
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2012, 15:59 by Lyn Farel »
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Mithfindel

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #64 on: 28 Dec 2012, 19:18 »

(Referring to Lyn's post above.)

That would actually be pretty scary: Some rather eccentric quirks, light-heartedly considered funny. Except in the cases where the fun fun fun would be just a screen. If I were into tinfoilhattery, Synthia would probably make me rather scared of spoons, regardless whether Appropriately Sized or Not.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #65 on: 28 Dec 2012, 21:24 »

I believe Synthia is probably treated far more gently than she would if she was a male character.

There was an incident recently, where a male Gallente character was doing some curious things relating to connecting his brain to a rogue drone thing.
iirc, it did not turn out at all well.
People were very hostile towards that particular character.

Yet Synthia is seemingly considered one of the more well regarded users of "the Summit". Is it just her calm, polite manner? or is it because she's a pleasant (if somewhat plain) looking youngish woman. Or has that appearance, anyway.

There is a new dev actor named Citizen Ahvar that I took an immediate liking to because he has the same mannerisms as Synthia. If it weren't for him trying to convert her, I'd have let Kat be a bit friendlier. Come to think of it, if you recall, Kat was less than friendly to Synthia in the beginning. That changed later on, and it may very well change with Citizen Ahvar.

... SHUT UP -TSF-. NO. SHUSH. NO CITIZEN ONISEKI.

Ahem. Anyways... I think it is worth noting that synthia has become a fairly standard character for the Summit. She's not very controversial (except for what she actually is), she tends to have childlike qualities, and she gets along with everybody. She's also been around for a while, and hasn't suddenly exploded into dramatic flair with kidnappings or other nonsense. So, I think this has allowed players and characters alike to relax around her, despite the drone bits.

I don't know if this male Gallente was new or not... but people tend to get chewed up when they start doing crazy stuff within their first couple months on the Summit. I've seen many new players try to go for the Academy Award for Best Dramatic Actor and fail miserably because they have not yet established a solid character reputation to leverage.

Or, maybe it's just because Synthia has tits.

Pieter Tuulinen

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #66 on: 28 Dec 2012, 23:09 »

To be fair, the guy would turn up and talk about doing things FOR THE SCIENCE that were basically research no-no's and completely illegal/insane. Several people played along, took part in a couple of RP events with him and it really only got out of hand when he started logging into the Summit to twirl his moustache and stroke his cat at us.

It started off interesting, but definitely veered off into Special Snowflake territory.
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Vikarion

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #67 on: 29 Dec 2012, 02:10 »

I honestly don't know if I respond differently to women than to men.

Ciarente is one of the the only two women I recall being in a corp of mine (the other being a director in a 0.0 corp), and Mata is probably the only one I've spoken to regularly, and I have fairly high opinions of both, given what limited knowledge one can have through the medium of a MMORPG. As for female characters, I do note that most of the females I have known of play female characters, while men will play females or males. Very rarely have I seen a woman RP a male character - although, to be fair, I know that Ciarente has at least one male as an alt.

A few of the men-RPing-women I've interacted with also post on this board, and some no longer play Eve. Lycana was an old member of White Rose, and we went on some roams, but I don't recall being interested in his character as a female as much as I was interested in the player, and his ability to put blaster rounds on target. Casiella was always fun to RP with, but that had nothing to do with her gender status.

I don't like to make the claim to being gender neutral. I'm probably not, and I don't have the tools for determining it. On the other hand, on the IGS or in The Summit, the words people use tend to impact more on my immediate actions or responses than the (character) gender of a poster. Speaking as my character, I don't particularly care now whether Desideriya (hope I spelled that correctly) or Seriphyn is male or female, I care about whether they are on my side or not. In other words, someone's gender means nothing as to whether they need to be fed through an IC shredder for the good of the State. But then, I play a very ideologically focused character, always have, and enjoy that. I do have a Gallente alt, who is much less ideological (Why? Well, I personally feel that the Federation is way too much of a Mary-Sue-topia to be interesting RPing ideologically) but I'm not telling who. I imagine things are different when one is mainlining heavy personality RP, which seems to be a fairly addictive drug for those on it.  ;)

And yet, I know that Vikarion's (as opposed to my) feelings towards Ciarente (seeing her as a rather naive, helpless person) were definitely influenced by gender. This was partly the nature of the character, and partly the storyline I was constructing (and constructing for my own, personal enjoyment, I should note), which was of a man with genuinely good intentions and utterly horrible means totally destroying just about everything he held dear, including his fiancee, his transhumanist goals, and those he worked with (sorry, Cia!  :bear:) Part of that tragedy is that he couldn't see Ciarente or those with her as independent and capable persons: in a very real way, Vikarion had completely bought into the Sansha philosophy of others needing to be directed for their own good. Now, how much of that was caused by gender? Well, his misunderstanding of Ciarente was partly because she was a young Intaki female, and his failure to see Petra Bealer's completely lunatic side was certainly aided by the "cute and cheerful chipmunk" personality that Petra adopted. As well, he certainly has feelings for Aria Jenneth, who, as an RPer, I personally must say I have some admiration for as someone who managed to so completely merge philosophical discussion and character drama.

Now - given that I am likely not at all perfect in this regard - do I see preference being given by others to female characters? Absolutely. But I also think part of it is in how female characters present themselves. It is generally true, I think, that male characters (say, an Amarrian) tend to come off more initially aggressive and hostile in their introduction and comportment than female characters. Female characters that behave aggressively and with open hostility (Silas Vitalia, for example) tend not to be beneficiaries of the supposed female bias.

This would lead me to think that the response is less a factor than the presentation - in other words, the audience of the specific character is less likely to accord special treatment to a female than the RPer is to act differently as a female. If you examine the posts by male and female characters, regardless of the actual gender behind the character, I think this trend tends to hold true - to wit, that female characters on the whole do not approach any particular issue or situation with the same aggressiveness and, well, often tactlessness, that male characters do - and that where this trend is broken, reactions also tend to differ.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012, 02:13 by Vikarion »
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Bong-cha Jones

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #68 on: 29 Dec 2012, 03:33 »

I think, generally speaking, that aggressiveness in men is viewed as desirable while aggressiveness in women is viewed as undesirable.  Conversely, kindness in men can come off as weakness, while kindness in women tends to be viewed as warm or inviting.  It would seem to follow that female characters will get a better reception as long as they're nice, while male characters suffer fewer consequences for being rude.  So, female characters can achieve higher highs, while male characters can avoid lower lows, maybe?

One thing that sticks out as interesting to me is the idea of being interesting 'as a woman'; namely, is there a corresponding status of interesting 'as a man'?
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #69 on: 29 Dec 2012, 04:25 »

I don't think Lyn has ever payed attention to other character's genders since only the content and the form matter to her eyes. However, would have I played another type of character, it could have been interesting to make him/her behave differently depending on character's genders.

IRL though, as Vikarion, I am not sure that I could tell honestly if it makes a difference or not for me.

However I think that character gender heavily affects the perception people have of said character. A female version of Adam Jensen may share the same qualities and defects than the original, but she will not be percieved the same way either by the audience or other characters. The difference of perception also tends to vary a lot when you start to enter into some stereotypes that are almost exclusively gender specific : how would be seen a female variant of Gandalf in his role ?

I believe that the character concept behind my own would not work the same way with a male either. It would be rather... clunky, without important tweakings here and there.

(Referring to Lyn's post above.)

That would actually be pretty scary: Some rather eccentric quirks, light-heartedly considered funny. Except in the cases where the fun fun fun would be just a screen. If I were into tinfoilhattery, Synthia would probably make me rather scared of spoons, regardless whether Appropriately Sized or Not.

Realistically definitly. But people know unconsciously that they are still playing a game. I think they make a clear distinction between "comic relief" and "serious business", and I think that it is quite visible in RP.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012, 04:28 by Lyn Farel »
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Sakura Nihil

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #70 on: 31 Dec 2012, 23:32 »

As I'm bored, counting the minutes slowly ticking to midnight, I thought I'd post up my thoughts on this.

There is definitely a difference in the way male and female characters are treated IC.  Usually the female ones get a lot more deference by other characters who are unfamiliar with them - what the cause of this is, I can't tell for sure, though of course my gut reaction is that it's probably 'teh boobies'.  Male characters are given far less leeway, and are often elicit a far more aggressive response.  In short, they're willing to put up with less bullshit from male characters, possibly because while disagreements might exist with the female characters, the latter will be more respectful in how they disagree - it's all in the delivery.  Sak would much rather talk about Federal policy with a character like Mekhana on the forums than with Seriphyn, for instance.

So from a personal standpoint, my characters tend to talk with other females because, in general, they can be reasoned with.  In contrast, arguing things like theology or politics with male characters is no fun at all, so unless I'm on one of my more "annoyed and bitchy" characters (like Sak or Eri), I'll often just lurk and wait for the party to AFK it up.

Some other observations and comments:

- Strong women rock, especially the types that can play the dual role of assertive when they want to be, and more passive and reserved at other times (rather than one or the other).  Good example would be military women IRL, especially the officers - to be disciplined and in-command during the day, under shitty situations at times, and then to revert to Mommy and wife in the evenings (if they're lucky)... lot of admiration for women like that.  Especially for the ones that happen to be beautiful and physically gifted, and almost have to overcome that like it's an obstacle (for a RL example, see beautiful female CEO's or government officials, and you'll always have some asshole think they got there by sleeping to the top.  Motherfuckers :bash:.)

- Sweet jebus, Morwen isn't kidding about the whole romance scene and lack of decent male characters.  At least 95% or more of the male characters that mine happen to encounter, they're either a) fucked up in the head, b) assholes, c) already in relationships.  The lack of suitable IC "Y chromosomes" out there is causing a lot of women to be more "open minded" about romance, if you get the drift.

- Regarding the "believability" of female characters, I try not to think too much about it.  At the end of the day, women are not a homogenous population that all think alike and have similar tendencies.  If any behaviors or reactions are different than what you'd normally expect a woman to do, one can always chalk it up to podders being odders (I lol'd!), or just a different childhood culture than the norm.  Case and point, I'd say that the Nihil sisters' background has made them a lot more disciplined and assertive than the average IC female, due to the circumstances of their upbringing1.  Problem solved for me, at least IMO.

- Red, where'd you get your avatar from?  I like it, was it done as a commission?  Evemail me IG/OOC with details on the artist if you wouldn't mind (and read this).  On second thought, I should probably PM them instead of doing a forum post about it.

:brilliant:



1 Just each other and their parents in Minmatar lowsec, fairly isolated by themselves on a barely habitable ice planet.  When your parents are former CalNav, and lapses in discipline could lead to injures, deaths, starvation, discovery by unsavory elements, etc... I would hope they'd adapt at a young age.  Especially for Civire kids, no fucking around in discipline there.
« Last Edit: 31 Dec 2012, 23:37 by Sakura Nihil »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Does character gender make a difference ?
« Reply #71 on: 01 Jan 2013, 06:21 »

Apparently I have had a slightly different experience.

I usually find Seri or Mekhana not really aggressive. Seri no more than her. And I also find Seri a lot less progressive/rebel than Mekhana, who is quite the Gallente patriot in comparison. She is more radical and I find it surprising that you still prefer to argue with her.

For the lack of IC "Y chromosomes", I can't really disagree, but as I already said somewhere else I do not see how it is better for the X chromosomes. It's not a matter of gender to my eyes, but more or matter of roleplayers.
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