Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => The Speakeasy: OOG/Off-topic Discussion => Topic started by: Zuzanna Alondra on 11 May 2010, 12:00
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Parenting is an interesting thing. I have so many thoughts about that whole issue that I would end up monopolizing this thread and driving it down a different road entirely.
Summary: "kids are good."
Since Casiella didn't want to pull the thread this post was made on off-topic - let's start a new thread. *smiles* Hopefully she finds this to finish her thought.
For context in the original thread there was a mild derail discussing why people don't have to have children just because their families want babies and why I feel there is little to no reason non-"standard" couples can have kids.
But also let this be a fun place for general parenting ideas too - us parents need a social life too.
My two month old just got back from her "well-child-checkup" and had to get several shots, but after a few alligator tears is all better and sleeping. I'll try to get a cute picture of my baby up later. Should it be required by law for children to have these shots (USA) and or is it required in other countries curious?
There's two ideas - have fun.
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I am very firmly in the pro-vaccine camp, and that's even after someone in my wife's family was affected negatively by them, because I know about how many more kids suffered (and died) due to preventable childhood diseases.
So my thoughts on having children tend towards the very old-fashioned, in a sense. Generally speaking, and at the risk of accidentally offending someone here: I don't get along too well with the sort of person who doesn't like kids. I understand many people have good reasons not to have children of their own: health risks, other life commitments, infertility, etc. But the sort of person who says "I never want crotchspawn because of what it'll do to my body or because I can't travel or because I just don't like kids" always rubs me the wrong way.
This has nothing to do whatsoever with gay and straight, obviously. Many of my gay friends, and my sister (who is in a same-sex marriage) love children. Some of them adopt, some of them have children from a prior relationship, or have kids through various other arrangements. Even those who never have their own frequently turn out to be awesome uncles and aunts or godparents, and that's cool in my book too.
Loving children is a part of being human, and a part I'd never want to see us give up as a species.
Personally (and I understand this won't hold true for everyone), becoming a father has made me a better man in virtually every way. I've never worked as hard, never despaired as much -- and I've never had as much fun or as much satisfaction. And mine are still small! :D
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It's hard to be sad when your holding a smiling baby.
It's also hard to pictures someone who truly doesn't like kids, my mom swore she wasn't a baby person, until she held Lisa.
But it'd be interesting to hear the other viewpoint.
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I like kids, and kids generally tend to like me.
But having grown up the oldest of three kids and third-oldest of 16 grandchildren, and regularly working in the church nursery to escape the sermons, I've changed more than my share of diapers, cleaned more than my share of spills and puke puddles, and been on the verge of tearing my hair out as two kids fight over the same toy enough times that I know I do not want kids of my own. I don't have the patience for it.
And in response to babies, I think this sums my sentiments up fairly well (http://www.lackadaisycats.com/exhibit.php?exhibitid=301). Yes, babies are cute. That doesn't mean I'm going to go running over to every pram and carriage cooing and making idiot noises. The way my brother does, heaven help us :|
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LOL, I think I love that.
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I loathe children.
The loathing isn't always entirely mutual. They sometimes try to torture me by attempting to interact, despite the DO NOT WANT vibe I generate at all times. Not good.
The loathing was once something that was comparatively academic. I simply inhabited a world in which children didn't exist and it was good. Now I'm in my mid-thirties, however, I have witnessed friend after friend fall into the parent trap, and it is very sad. Even the best of people becomes a Child Bore, for whom nothing else exists or matters other than their terrible spawn. In a number of cases, I have pretty much gone, "OK. Fine. You have a mewling shitbucket now. I'll see you in about 16 years, k?"
It probably wouldn't be so bad if I could at least tolerate the children, but I can't. I don't see anything adorable about them. They are ugly and they smell. They make noise. They have nothing to say that I'm interested in hearing. So I am resigned to effectively shedding friends as a result, because there's no way my social calendar has room for children's birthday parties, and there's really not much space for a parent to have any kind of life when their children are very young.
And yes, the aforementioned social calendar is a lot emptier than it used to be. :(
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I am a bit ambivalent about children.
They're okay.
But in no way are they interesting or generate any kind of cuddly feelings in me.
I would guess that if I would have a 'crotchspawn' of my own, things would be different.
Right now I am just not working under those hormones.
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Wanoah - Wow, I hadn't realized how much time kids do take, I'm sorry to hear you've lost so many friends over the years from a lack of interest in children and admire being brave enough to step up and post about it.
Kinda of a sobering reminder to try to call some of my friends more often.
The good thing is that you realize your not a kid person and don't try to make yourself be.
lallara - Yeah... it's different when their your own. There's a huge instant bond of love there that makes it to where you can tolerate the fact that you can't pass them off to someone else when their crying. Well... except I do often, I make Daddy change his fair share of diapers when he's home.
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I frequently recycle a (paraphrased) line from Law & Order, of all places:
"I'm not 'babysitting', I'm taking care of my kids. That's being a dad.'
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Kinda of a sobering reminder to try to call some of my friends more often.
Well, time is an issue, and I think everyone does understand that. Doesn't mean I have to like it, though. :P
Still, yes, it is definitely worth making an effort with friends, because time with adults (and possibly adults that aren't only talking about their kids, because that is another trap right there: couples who acquire sprogs and then only socialise with other couples with sprogs too :/) is pretty valuable when you're spending a lot (most) of your time on childcare. I also suspect that people tend to fall into that mid-life crisis trap because they are too focused on one thing and suddenly realise that they've missed out on a bunch of other stuff without realising.
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That's what I have you guys for. ;)
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I will admit that I use Eve for adult companionship during nap time.
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Here's another idea that should be punctured, the idea that childbirth is a miracle. I don't know who started this rumor but it's not a miracle. No more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out of your butt. It's a chemical reaction and a biological reaction. You want to know a miracle? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk in a fucking movie theater . . . I'll go you one further, and this is the routine that has virtually ended my career in America. If you have children here tonight—and I assume some of you do—I am sorry to tell you this. They are not special. I'll let that sink in. Don't get me wrong, folks. I know you think they're special. I'm aware of that. I'm just trying to tell you—they're not. Did you know that every time a guy comes, he comes 200 million sperm? Did you know that? And you mean to tell me you think your child is special? Because one out of 200 million sperm connected . . . that load? Gee, what are the fucking odds? Do you know what that means? I have wiped entire civilizations off of my chest, with a grey gym sock. That is special. Entire nations have flaked and crusted in the hair around my navel. That is special. And I want you to think about that, you two-egg-carrying beings out there with that holier-than-thou, we-have-the-gift-of-life attitude. I have tossed universes, in my underpants, while napping. That is special.
:P
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Summing up my view a bit sharply; kids may be good but the world is pretty bad. :P
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I like kids most of the time but then again i have none of my own so i do not need to do any of the "dirty"work.
That might change now though that i have become an uncle...my sister got alot of dirt on me and probably will use that for blackmailing me into assisting her now and again...
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Being an uncle is awesome. At least half of the fun stuff from being a dad and almost none of the actual responsibility.
Usually.
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Well, in truth i was already an uncle....uhm...6 times. But those where my halfsiblings children from dads 2 first marriages and as all the halfsiblings was alot older than me (my oldest halfsister is just 3 years younger than my mom...) all of the nephews/nieces, except 1, are older than me.....
so this one feels more real, if that is the right way to say it.
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Here's another idea that should be punctured, the idea that childbirth is a miracle. I don't know who started this rumor but it's not a miracle. No more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out of your butt. It's a chemical reaction and a biological reaction. You want to know a miracle? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk in a fucking movie theater . . . I'll go you one further, and this is the routine that has virtually ended my career in America. If you have children here tonight—and I assume some of you do—I am sorry to tell you this. They are not special. I'll let that sink in. Don't get me wrong, folks. I know you think they're special. I'm aware of that. I'm just trying to tell you—they're not. Did you know that every time a guy comes, he comes 200 million sperm? Did you know that? And you mean to tell me you think your child is special? Because one out of 200 million sperm connected . . . that load? Gee, what are the fucking odds? Do you know what that means? I have wiped entire civilizations off of my chest, with a grey gym sock. That is special. Entire nations have flaked and crusted in the hair around my navel. That is special. And I want you to think about that, you two-egg-carrying beings out there with that holier-than-thou, we-have-the-gift-of-life attitude. I have tossed universes, in my underpants, while napping. That is special.
:P
Bill Hicks. <3
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Well, in truth i was already an uncle....uhm...6 times. But those where my halfsiblings children from dads 2 first marriages and as all the halfsiblings was alot older than me (my oldest halfsister is just 3 years younger than my mom...) all of the nephews/nieces, except 1, are older than me.....
so this one feels more real, if that is the right way to say it.
Don't feel bad about that as much - it's normal to feel more attached to family that's closer to you. My half sister had a baby five year ago now and my parents weren't all that excited because they never see her and my nephew and she never really talks to them.
But when I said Lisa was coming - the world was tipped upside down and they were so happy you wouldn't believe it. My dad is very proud to be a grandpa. Should he feel bad that he was more excited about Lisa then Ethan? No... because he sees Lisa and me more. Feelings are what they are.
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Don't feel bad about that as much - it's normal to feel more attached to family that's closer to you.
[yelling evolutionary biologist]BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE OF YOUR GENES. THAT MEANS YOU ARE MORE INVESTED IN THEIR SURVIVAL.[/yelling evolutionary biologist]
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Kids are a pain to be around for extended periods. They can be alright. Some are downright great, some are irritating.
Honest to god, though, 1) If you have a big family and cannot provide for them, I'm taking your fucking zygotes with a pair of rusty pliars, 2) the divorce rates and abuse prevention systems in the west are pure shit, and 3) nothing is sacred; nobody is entitled to anything.
People don't like to be humble in the west. People make silly demands, or act up when there's no accountability, or do other stupidly human things.
I have - I should say, had, - this one roomate. She's moving out this Friday. She has a child. I think the poor kid's going to be more fucked up than me when he grows up because of her antics. I can't take that shit.
Also, don't push your stupid shit on your kids (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090508161010AAumYjt). The goal is to pass on less of your bias, bad manners, insanity, and baggage - not more.
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Kids are a pain to be around for extended periods. They can be alright. Some are downright great, some are irritating.
This is true for all sufficiently large groups of humans, isn't it? Hell, it's true for every individual over time: we all have good days and bad days. We all know people who are just awesome human beings that make us proud of our species, and we know weasels who don't deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of us.
I don't know what the divorce rates are like in Russia and Asia, but I do know that the oft-cited rates ("half of all marriages end in divorce!") don't match reality (http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/05/10/science_of_marriage_interview/index.html). From that article:
The 50 percent divorce rate is really a myth. The 20-year divorce rate for couples who got married in the 1980s is actually around 19 percent. Everyone thinks marriage is such a struggle and it’s shocking to hear that marriage is actually going strong today. It has to do with how you look at the statistic. If the variables were constant, then a simple equation might work to come up with the divorce rate. But a lot of things are changing. And it is true that there are groups of people who have a 50 percent divorce rate: college dropouts who marry under the age of 25, for example. Couples married in the 1970s have a 30-year divorce rate of about 47 percent. A person who got married in the 1970s had a completely different upbringing and experience in life from someone who got married in the 1990s. It's been very clear that divorce rates peaked in the 1970s and has been going down ever since.
And true, every parent's "goal is to pass on less of your bias, bad manners, insanity, and baggage - not more." But you have to recognize your biases and baggage in the first place, because (in the linked example) that person clearly thinks she's imparting strong values and an important belief structure. I happen to agree with you that she needs help, but she herself almost certainly doesn't recognize that, or at least not in this context. FWIW, the answer chosen as "best" there is probably what I'd have written, though with some substantial theological differences (not all "Christians" hold the same views on things like hell). But yeah, she's the sort of person that gives the rest of us a bad name.
Anyway, in general, if a man said the sorts of things about women that some folks (not Ashar, I hasten to add) say about kids, he'd be labeled a "misogynist" or worse, and rightly so. That's the core problem I have with the discourse around kids that many people throw out there.
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Casi, honest to God, I think you're forum-stalking me.
This is true for all sufficiently large groups of humans, isn't it?
Precisely the point, yes.
I don't know what the divorce rates are like in Russia and Asia...
As a Russian expatriate, I have to tell you, I kind of consider it part of the west. However, perhaps 'core states' or 'first and second world' would have served better.
As for the marriage bits - it's not that they're below fifty or even twenty percent. If it was enough to get a divorce rate below fifty percent or twenty percent to generate good lives for the majority of children born of troubled marriages - or even whatever we consider normal in marriages - we would be makin' it.
It's that they are above ten percent, and that single parents are above five percent of parents - including uncounted parents; illegals, people in a parental role without legal guardianship, et cetera.
If you tell me these groups are not a significant portion of the population and that their actions have only a minor affect that we might ignore on the quality of life of the children brought up by them - children whose quality of life will decide how they in turn affect the quality of life of others in society - and you tell me this in a national dialectic where a ten percent unemployment rate, setting aside structural unemployment, spells disaster, I will throw back my head and laugh until well after every cow has come home.
Bad parenting, by circumstance or scarcity or ineptitude, is the new infant mortality rate.
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Casi, honest to God, I think you're forum-stalking me.
Nah, I just have a passion for this thread and topic for RL reasons beyond just my belief in the title.
Bad parenting, by circumstance or scarcity or ineptitude, is the new infant mortality rate.
I generally agree with the sentiment behind this statement and the rest of the post, although I'd note that some kids can overcome much of the effects of bad parenting.
/me is one of them, and suspects so are a lot of people here.
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Being myself, the eldest son in my family, and yet the 2nd youngest in my generation I am at the point where I can see both sides, with enough clarity to be at least somewhat impartial
(And yes, that makes me really quite young in comparison to alot of you, don't make an assumption I will simply proove you wrong if you do)
Kids, yeah sure - its a gift and a privilege to be able to bear and raise a child but for gods sake, as has been mentioned before, the idea is to give the child a better chance at life than you yourself had, to pass on less crap and make the world better for them.
Alot of the problems with fucking annoying shitty kids is the way they are raised, almost entirely. (Exceptions do apply, though they are rare and far between)
For example, myself and my younger brother where raised with the steadfast beliefs that you "Do un to others as you would have them do un to you" and "Every action has a consequence" which are two core things that I simply see missing in alot of people my age and older even.
Something else is that I was never treated like a child, in the sense that if there was a problem when I was younger for any reason, my mother/father would simply sit down and explain it to me like anyone else - none of the goo goo gaa gaa bullshit after you can start to think for yourself (I can't remember exact dates, my memory aint that good)
On the topic of actually being able to cope with them? Mostly, younger children and I get along really well, although I recognise personally, I don't have the patience to be around them for rather long as my temper has a tendency to snap after the fifth-sixth annoyingly silly joke kids love to play thus I don't want to try and put myself in a position where I would do something stupid and endlessly regret that for the rest of my life.
That may change, people say you mellow with age... but hey, I have enough time to completely flip and become a pathetic soft teddy bear for all I know... which if you believe Hitome I am anyway XD
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@ the divorce rate side topic: Interestingly enough part of what makes that 50% so high is the chronic remarriages. Example - "This is Bob - he's my forth husband; but I know he's for keeps because of..... *insert list* but I was smart this time and made hm sign prenuptial papers so I won't be screwed when it ends..." *snickers a bit* Divorce will happen if you believe it an option.
@ the infant mortality topic crack: I know a mom who worked as an emergency foster care Mom for infants. The stories are heart breaking. I seriously hope I'm doing a decent job; but I can see how someone that didn't want children or are too young... it's awful.
@"Don't push stupid shit on you kids": Homeschooling can be good? But one gift I feel my mom gave me growing up was the freedom to explore religious beliefs on my own. While I'm still going to have my daughter blessed, once she's old enough to understand religion, the odds of her going to church on Sundays will likely go down until her very late teens if at all and I'm grateful for that. Jack ftw?
@Kids can overcome bad parenting: I believe it was Havohej who gave me the following parenting advice, "No matter how good you do your kids going to be sitting in a shrink's hair someday saying what you did wrong, so don't stress too much."
I think that's all the tasty bits.
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I can only quote the late, great Philip Larkin at this juncture. :)
This Be The Verse
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
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And I thought I was cynical.
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/huggies-jean-diapers-makes-jeggings-seem-normal/
I don't know if I should laugh, be offended or be shocked.
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/huggies-jean-diapers-makes-jeggings-seem-normal/
I don't know if I should laugh, be offended or be shocked.
I personally went with slightly disgusted. :)
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What was the bit about non-standard couples? I hope it's not what I think it is.
Children, particularly at their early stages, are fascinating beings. Their bodies leave behind reflexes a few weeks/months into life, fuse bones and have tremendous potential for learning. You watch them develop their faculties, with the forlorn hope that [responsible parent] won't make a mess of raising them.
Assisting in childbirth is something I've found to be a moving experience. Very few things elicit an almost purely emotional response from me, and I think this is one of them. What was particularly moving was an experience of tending to a baby (doing readings, etc) who'd been delivered by emergency caesarian. At that point I'd spent more time interacting with this new being in our world than his own mother. The child required skin to skin contact as he may have felt alone and insecure while resting on the heated baby bed, and was satisfied with a gloved finger to grasp in his palm.
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*smiles*
I personally remember the nurse saying Lisa's temperature had dropped and she needed to be kept warm and they were talking about putting her in the nursery overnight. The almost instinctive fear, "Don't take my baby" welled up and instead they took heat packs and put them in the bed with me so she could sleep on my tummy, warm, cozy and with me.
I remember being so happy I didn't care that I was tired.
Thank you Scagga.
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What was the bit about non-standard couples? I hope it's not what I think it is.
What thing?
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Assisting in childbirth is something I've found to be a moving experience. Very few things elicit an almost purely emotional response from me, and I think this is one of them. What was particularly moving was an experience of tending to a baby (doing readings, etc) who'd been delivered by emergency caesarian. At that point I'd spent more time interacting with this new being in our world than his own mother. The child required skin to skin contact as he may have felt alone and insecure while resting on the heated baby bed, and was satisfied with a gloved finger to grasp in his palm.
I now have an entirely new (and positive! ;) ) view of Scagga. <3
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Here's another interesting child rearing/related link I thought was interesting:
http://www.canadianfamily.ca/blog/familyjewels/open-question/2009/08/12/breast-feeding-doll-what-do-you-think/
Raises an interesting question about society's view on breastfeeding and baby dolls.
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Here's another interesting child rearing/related link I thought was interesting:
http://www.canadianfamily.ca/blog/familyjewels/open-question/2009/08/12/breast-feeding-doll-what-do-you-think/
Raises an interesting question about society's view on breastfeeding and baby dolls.
It also again makes me glad I have a son, not a daughter.
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I have both. I can't articulate why this issue makes me uncomfortable, despite the fact that I'm completely comfortable with breastfeeding mothers.
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It also again makes me glad I have a son, not a daughter.
I had been hoping for a boy myself for a similar reason.
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Another charming link:
http://www.bitmob.com/articles/my-four-year-old-son-plays-grand-theft-auto
A parent of a four year old lets their child play Grand Theft Auto. The results are amusing.
Enjoy.
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Everywhere, trade-offs.
Also. (http://www.violentacres.com/archives/54/the-deadbeat-dad-myth/)
This link was included in another thread - a good read for the kids thread, and links to this article:
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/185/it-is-your-job-to-financially-provide-for-your-children/
This article hit me sort of like a sucker punch to the face. I thought it would be worth discussing.
There is always a reason - always an excuse.
Below in spoiler tags is my rant on the subject that is rather lengthy - if you liked the article have fun reading it - if you didn't like the article - I recommend skipping it.
[spoiler] In my case I waited years - over 5. Carefully saved and planned from high school. Only dated guys that wanted children and seemed to have good work and school ethic (from what I could tell), worked in a daycare to learn parenting skills. Saved up to buy my own home, married and stayed married for years to someone that said they wanted kids. Worked hard to at least get my AA so when the child was older I could get a part time job while they were in school that wasn't embarrassing.
Waited until I had health insurance, a house, a seemingly stable happy marriage to remove the birth control.
Then seemingly all at once I got sick (didn't know I was pregnant yet), the septic tank failed, I lost my job and my drivers license (State law - if you faint you lose your license for 6 months ... go figure) and was stuck. To further break things - while things were never perfect - over the course of my pregnancy my husband and I drifted from "married - should spend more time together, but stable and happy enough to keep going" to "Get out of my house!"
The article is about showing your kid you love them by waiting to have them until you can afford to support them without government assistance. I remember working my ass off for that goal. When the moment I got pregnant my life 180'd - welfare helped because I had no choice.
But when I see someone in line at DSHS (welfare office in my state) who is having another kid, never worked and is only having another child to be able to keep her low income housing... I want to scream. I want to kick - I want to tell them how wrong what they are doing is.
Personally - I'm working to get off DSHS in the long run by using it short run to get an even better education so I can give my child a winter coat.
Love "Daddy" (or mommy if your a male reader), be the stay at home mom if you want - but don't follow my mistake - finish your education even if you plan to stay home *just in case* because you never know when the sky *will* fall - as one of this authors other articles says regarding child support, "Why should he pay you a dime? If he had died tomorrow what would of you of done?"
Thankfully for my own pride I can say when I got knocked up, even if life changed, "Work full time as an accountant to provide for her." [/spoiler]
All this guys rants are good reads imho.
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Zu, it's a gal, but in any case, thanks for linking that site. Her articles about her childhood and her way out of it were very encouraging to me.
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My mother had me when she was nineteen, after three years of marriage. This was such a bad idea that even today I occasionally wish I had a time machine so I can go back, grab the sixteen year old her, shake her until her teeth rattles, and yell 'WTF are you thinking, wanting to marry a guy you met six weeks ago when he fell out of a car and puked on your shoes?'
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Zu, it's a gal, but in any case, thanks for linking that site. Her articles about her childhood and her way out of it were very encouraging to me.
My bad? *blush*
These articles are good non-the-less.
Right now however I am excited because I just got the cute little rubber spoons and as long as things don't get too crazy busy - (like last night) my little girl will be trying cereal for the first time. I've got a bit of rice cereal and she's shown interest in tasting stuff.
@Vieve- I know the feeling, "Seriously Mom... 16 and a highschool drop out on drugs? Grrrreat role-model there...." But the fact we know that's messed up means we are (hopefully) learning and doing better. I admit I do like having a young and still active mom.
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I can't ever have kids, this makes me sad, since its always something I've wanted.
and yeah, I can adopt, but it won't truly be my child then.. :(
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Yes it will. Ask any parent who's raised a child with different biological parents.
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but I can't carry them to term, and give birth to them, which is something I've always wished I could do.
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Kat's my step-mum, rather than actual mother.
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Kids are good
...dipped in sour cream or salsa. >.>
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My mom is my stepmother. She married my dad when I was four and my sister was two. She fed us when we were sick, got me through my jackass teenage years, and I talk to her nearly every other day still. She's my mom. She had three more children of "her own", so to speak, but my sister and I are just as much her kids as our other siblings. My biological mother and I haven't spoken in nearly a year. God willing, we never will again.
My wife's dad is her stepfather. Her biological father hasn't been in the picture since she was a year old. The man that raised her, though, he's her dad.
Pregnancy is only a tiny, tiny part of raising a child. Sure, it's special and magical, but giving yourself heart and soul to care for an innocent soul who bears no responsibility for the suffering they will have due to whatever choices their biological parents make has its own magic.
I love my kids to death, and I wouldn't trade them for anything, but I do sometimes wonder how it would have been to adopt like we had discussed originally. Instead, I focus on the two that I have plus my little nephew, also growing up fatherless. But those souls that make that sacrifice based on pure love, with no biological impulse at all? Those people qualify as "saints" in a very real and totally non-religious sense.
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Kids are good
...dipped in sour cream or salsa. >.>
They're better with a nice hollandaise.
I've been resisting that statement for months.
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I fully fully agree with the folks that say the kids still yours. And trust me... pregnancy isn't *that* fun.
The only good part is when your holding your kid. Then again I swelled up like a ballon and was practically bedridden for the last 2 months of it.
There are cases where you can even adopt a kid before they are born and be there for the birth so you get to hold em while they are still purple.
Small warning - kids don't come with an instruction manual. And they don't care about numbers... confusing critters they are.
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Small warning - kids don't come with an instruction manual.
Mine did... (http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Owners-Manual-Instructions-Trouble-Shooting/dp/1931686238/)
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Small warning - kids don't come with an instruction manual.
Mine did... (http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Owners-Manual-Instructions-Trouble-Shooting/dp/1931686238/)
That was the only baby book I found useful.
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I seem to be really good with kids. My mates 4 year old boy is incredibly intelligent and we get on awesomely. I often have to go round just to stop him driving his mum up the wall, but it's usually his 18mnth sister who does the driving.
Then there's my ex-gf's lovely son. He's 3.5yrs now but he acts like a stroppy rock teenager already :lol:
I know I'll eventually have kids, but I've got a while before I consider myself responsible enough. I can barely look after myself atm :(
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Just had my first, a boy. He came a little early. Like 10 weeks early.
Such a hectic time at the moment getting used to stuff. I might get my breath back eventually.
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Just had my first, a boy. He came a little early. Like 10 weeks early.
Such a hectic time at the moment getting used to stuff. I might get my breath back eventually.
I wish you the best of luck. I know just worrying about baby being early is scary (I almost had Lisa at 32 weeks - but was but on medication to make her wait) and a new baby is definitely a new and busy time. Enjoy your boy - being a parent is a wonderful thing.
Random fyi -- babies love swimming, I recommend making the most of bathtime. Now that Lisa can sit up, I put her in a swim toy and take her swimming at the pool quite often.
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Funny that you mention that. We're at a waterpark resort (Great Wolf Lodge) right now with my little ones.
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I used to work in summer camps and day cares for a good four years, so I can understand how children can nag, annoy, and fight with others so much that you want to beat them mercilessly. However, one must understand that their brains are not fully developed. When I see people in their thirties and forties commenting on how ten year old boys should go to federal prison for killing someone, I feel ashamed. How one could let emotions take them over and feel that punishment for someone who is obviously mentally unstable involves a prison for adults.
But I digress. I love children; some days I don't like their attitudes, but we were all children once. I enjoy seeing a child grow from infancy to adulthood, such a learning experience that can easily be altered.
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Children literally lack the ability to understand things outside their "bubble" and struggle with a period of time past maybe next week for older kids. It is very common for children to not understand concepts like "death" as I have had little kids say, "Grandpa died - everyone cried" and then come to me a week later and ask, "When's Grandpa coming to pick me up from school?"
Yes the children who get in trouble need consequences for their actions, but dang... counseling and maybe juevenlle hall if they are likely to reoffend. However depending on the child's age - I personally would not have a hard time pointing a finger at the parent and saying WTF to them. There are reasons to lose your child...
Of course if anyone ever came between me and my baby...
Speaking of such - she has started the "Dada" babble... I am very jealously waiting for Mama or Papa... poor Havo - he was hoping for Papa sooo much.
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Don't get me wrong, I think kids are adorable, and I'm glad there are people who are at least *trying* to raise them properly but I'm not sure I could stand having a kid of my own. I've no problem with having to change a diaper or cleaning up puke; my problem is those high-pitched shrieks that cause me to literally cringe in pain whenever I hear one. And it's that these parents seemingly have no problem with inflicting these ear-splitting noises on other people (read: me) that also get on my nerves. C'mon people, we (I) don't want to hear your little two year-old child shriek loud enough to shatter ear drums, so please PLEASE find some way to not bring them in public with you.
... Reason #25 Havvie does not like having to go out in public. [/Havvierant]
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Don't get me wrong, I think kids are adorable, and I'm glad there are people who are at least *trying* to raise them properly but I'm not sure I could stand having a kid of my own. I've no problem with having to change a diaper or cleaning up puke; my problem is those high-pitched shrieks that cause me to literally cringe in pain whenever I hear one. And it's that these parents seemingly have no problem with inflicting these ear-splitting noises on other people (read: me) that also get on my nerves. C'mon people, we (I) don't want to hear your little two year-old child shriek loud enough to shatter ear drums, so please PLEASE find some way to not bring them in public with you.
... Reason #25 Havvie does not like having to go out in public. [/Havvierant]
This sort of attitude is whats wrong with our society. (massive RAEG incoming, so don't mind me, its nothing to do with you Havvie you just pointed it out) Basically, our attitude as a culture is that the kids are the parents problem, we won't help them, we won't aid them, when we see a single mother in the store trying to console a crying child while keeping her other kids from running around, our first thought isn't to help her, its to sneer at her and tell her she needs to shut her kids up.
You look at other cultures around the world, particularly a lot of tribal cultures, and the children aren't just the responsibility of the parent, they're the responsibility of the tribe, with everyone pitching in to help. In my mind, this is how it should be. Instead, we isolate mothers and families, and force them to deal with their children on their own, this makes for a much, much harder time when raising kids. Its why so many parents are at their wits end so much of the time. Because they need help, and no one's willing to help them.
Incidentally, this is another reason I think polyamory is a really good idea. If I'm polyamorus, and living in a group household with five or six adults instead of one, if that, it makes it much easier on everyone.
Many hands make light work, I think thats something we need to remember as a culture. And seriously, we need to be more friendly with each other, and more helpful with each other, we live in a culture of me first, more more more, and it shows.
rant over.
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Havvie, I suspect you'll be a great parent. Sounds like you may already have (even if you don't realize it) an internal "parent alarm".
I don't like shrieking kids, either. When I'm around them, I'm in a constant state of low grade panic, because I have to keep reminding myself that there's no emergency, even though each shriek sets off my internal "what's broken/what's wrong/MUST FIX" alarm. Damn hormones.
I'm pretty sure there's no parent on the planet who'd appreciate me stepping in, corralling their kids, and telling them the version of Peter and the Wolf that I was told when I was a little girl ("if you shriek all of the time, your Mommy won't know if a stranger is grabbing you or not so she'll ignore you, and you'll wind up in the back of a van being shot up with drugs and nobody will ever see you alive again"). So, I don't. No matter how much I'm tempted. I understand that people tend to get pissy when you give their kids nightmares.
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I came into this one way late apparently.
I am pro-vaccine, but I was pissed my girl got a Chicken Pox shot without my express permission. Chicken Pox is kind of like a right of passage.
Anyways, just posting to say, yeah, I got one. Will go back and reread through whole thread later.
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When I grew up at the end of seventies in Finland it was commonplace at my apartment building that if a child had a problem any adult from the building would help.
If there was a fight, the closest adult would separate the kids.
If there was blood, the closest adult would fix it.
If there was a problem, anyone could step in and try to find a solution to it.
The children could approach any adult without fear and ask anything they would want to know.
The apartment building had ten to fifteen families with kids of roughly the same age, we played together, we fought with kids of other apartment buildings (teenagers stepped in when hockey sticks and other paraphernalia came involved.)
We explored the forests nearby without any fear, we build rafts so that we could explore the more swampy areas, we built forts in the forests, we had epic snow wars, we spent days and days on our sleighs going down any incline.
It was a different time.
Finland was being run by a benign tyrant that had maneuvered the country so that Soviets would not care what happened here, basically we were adopting what he thought was good in their society and implemented in ours. It meant everybody had free healthcare, education and cheap public transport.
Just two generations earlier the people had fought WWII, winter war and the war after that. The urbanization had really kicked off only after the wars so the people from the agricultural areas were still working with the same communal attitude that had been around for centuries. There was communal saunas where people were equal from all walks of life. People that were 'no good' tended to disappear.
There were no paedos, there were no criminals, there was nothing bad that reached the basic worker of Finland at time, you had to love the propaganda machine back then. Also the community thing meant that things were dealt on personal level, if there was a problem with your neighbour you sorted it out with him. It may have lead to violence, but thats how things happened. Same thing worked with petty criminals and anyone that would threaten the safety of the community. The authorities did not need to get involved with everything.
It made everyone safe.
So it was perfectly fine if a stranger picked up your kid after he had fallen down and wiped the tears off his face and told him to run off and play.
Since then things have changed.
Media is all about mistrust towards your fellow man.
Fear this and fear that.
Do not act yourself, call in the authorities.
Sue everybody, you might get something out of it.
If I would go to a kid in a sandbox that was hitting another one in the head with a shovel and took the shovel from his/her hand and told him/her to stop in a stern voice.
First, I would get the mother on my back, shouting obscenities and threatening to call a cop.
If I would do something similar later to the same kid.
I would get the father on my back, probably with threat of violence involved.
At this point the authorities would get involved and I would probably be labeled as a sex offender because of the 'white lies' that the parents had told to the authorities to keep their children safe.
If I would want to I could go through a legal process that would take years to get that label removed but it would still be on my permanent record and it would affect my ability to get a job and exclude me from ever trying to get a political career.
The society has changed and its fucked up.
When it comes to the sound that the children make, there is a certain pitch that they only hit when something is really wrong. Most of the noise is just the children trying to make the parent react or bend the boundaries that the parent has put up. For some children it is a constant battle about authority with their parents.
Back in the day you could put the fear of God in them.
Nowadays its illegal to physically educate your child.
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This sort of attitude is whats wrong with our society. (massive RAEG incoming, so don't mind me, its nothing to do with you Havvie you just pointed it out) Basically, our attitude as a culture is that the kids are the parents problem, we won't help them, we won't aid them, when we see a single mother in the store trying to console a crying child while keeping her other kids from running around, our first thought isn't to help her, its to sneer at her and tell her she needs to shut her kids up.
That's because if a kid was being an obnoxious little shit twenty years ago their parent could smack them and tell them to shut up. Twenty years ago if a person saw a kid misbehaving in the supermarket, say eating or pocketing the candy, they could snatch the kid up and give them a real talking to, even if it wasn't their kid.
That's because sometimes you have to discipline children, but now you are no longer able.
You look at other cultures around the world, particularly a lot of tribal cultures, and the children aren't just the responsibility of the parent, they're the responsibility of the tribe, with everyone pitching in to help. In my mind, this is how it should be. Instead, we isolate mothers and families, and force them to deal with their children on their own, this makes for a much, much harder time when raising kids. Its why so many parents are at their wits end so much of the time. Because they need help, and no one's willing to help them.
Oh please. That is absolute nonsense. They are not willing to help them because they can go to jail for it. They are not willing to help them because they will get yelled at by the parent for "telling them how to raise their kid," they are not willing to help because they are not allowed to help.
Such misappropriated hostility.
I'll give you some tidbits: Raising a kid today is no harder than raising a kid was in the late seventies and early eighties when I was growing up. One thing I can assure you is that as a kid I may have been a terror around the house, but I never started a screeching fit in a grocery store. I never said disparaging shit about someone in a public place. I never started screaming and crying in a restaurant.
Why did I not do those things? Because my parents did their fucking job.
You can't smack a kid when they're acting up anymore. There's no such thing as discipline anymore. There is only the looming threat of child services and the "Everyone's a winner!" bullshit coddling that goes on.
Kids aren't acting up and being bad these days because people "aren't willing to help," kids are acting up and being bad these days because they're being fucking coddled.
Yes, it's a "me first" culture, it's a "me first" culture because no one is willing to tell kids they're not a special snowflake, they're not always a winner, and they can't always have what they want.
Done.
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C'mon people, we (I) don't want to hear your little two year-old child shriek loud enough to shatter ear drums, so please PLEASE find some way to not bring them in public with you.
... Reason #25 Havvie does not like having to go out in public. [/Havvierant]
PLEASE tell me this is a joke post.
Otherwise, it is a shame your parents didn't drown you in a bathtub so you couldn't inflict your horrid screeching and whining on others. Seriously.
Nonsense. It's hardly a joke. Some of us were well-behaved in public when we were kids. We were taught it was disrespectful to both our parents and to others to be an obnoxious little shit in public. In the home was one thing, there was more leeway, but in public there were behavioral standards that one was expected to uphold. You kept your mouth shut, you spoke only when spoken to, you did not pitch a fit when you were told you couldn't have a piece of candy (you might pout and stomp around, but you sure as shit didn't scream about it), and you did not act out.
You were taught there was a time and a place for everything, and public venues and when guests were being entertained at the household are not the times nor are they the places for such behaviors.
You don't bring infants to movie theatres, especially action films and horror. You don't bring infants to restaurants. You be a responsible parent, and shit like that won't happen, and when it does you excuse yourself from public and you deal with the situation. You don't sit at the table or in your theatre seat or in the isle of a grocery store and try to bargain with your child.
It's as much disrespect by the child as it is by the parent.
It's compounded by the stuff in the previous post.
Ok, really done.
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Wow, this thread got ugly quick.
Anyway, my son is out of his humidi-crib, off his breathing tubes and seems pretty happy. We might be able to get him out of hospital in 3-4 weeks.
Yay.
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I am pro-vaccine, but I was pissed my girl got a Chicken Pox shot without my express permission. Chicken Pox is kind of like a right of passage.
Without your express permission? Didn't you also have to sign off on the vaccine permission form?
I'm also pro-vaccine, but I'll admit the chicken pox one makes me twitchy. Alas, it's required for public school here (and most private ones: that is, the ones who actually teach academic subjects out of genuine textbooks and grant diplomas that are accepted by accredited post-secondary institutions), so we had to get the Monster inoculated. It was either that or lie about having religious objections, which would sort of be counter to the whole ethical behavior part of school board recognized religions, so ... yeah.
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Well this thread went pear shaped.
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Well this thread went pear shaped.
yes, it did.
[mod] :ugh:[/mod]
lets try again, better this time.
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Well, third grade just started, and she wants to dye her hair purple. :bash:
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Well, third grade just started, and she wants to dye her hair purple. :bash:
light purple? or dark purple? and why? a favourite character in film?
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Kick-Ass. :D
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Nikita spends four hours going over adoption law, rages, proceeds to use Havvie as punching bag
bleh, adoption is hard. >_>
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Well, third grade just started, and she wants to dye her hair purple. :bash:
Temporary dyes are good. And so's using them just to dye a few strands of hair. Show her this year's Halloween Treat Barbie if she wants an example.*
*Note, I don't think Halloween Barbie's a good example of anything other than how purple streaks can look in fake blonde hair. And I continue to be happy I had a boy.
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Nikita spends four hours going over adoption law, rages, proceeds to use Havvie as punching bag
bleh, adoption is hard. >_>
But I'm so huggable. D:
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Nikita spends four hours going over adoption law, rages, proceeds to use Havvie as punching bag
bleh, adoption is hard. >_>
But I'm so huggable. D:
(http://www.testriffic.com/resultfiles/3701l_2f10b915448c0768477417625ba85962.jpg)
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So since I already got my formal warning, and really don't want to make good on a ban, I am going to be polite here and just ask a very simple question.
If you don't like kids, have an aversion to kids, had bad experienced as a kid/with your parents, whatever, why would you want to post in a thread where a bunch of people are basically celebrating and discussing them and the nuances of their existance?
Honestly, I am just curious.
I got all shitty with Havvie, and I apologize for not utilizing any sort of tact, but if kids aren't your speed, why post?
-curious happy dad
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There's a difference between not liking kids and not liking obnoxious kids that people should have raised better.
Better way to put it:
There's a difference between not liking kids and not liking bad parents.
Not all parents are bad, most are pretty good, but there's a lot of bad parents out there and a lot of examples of bad parenting to be made, and what Havvie touched on was a prime example of it. Obviously not every kid shouting in a restaurant or grocery store or whatever is the result of a bad parent, but that is easily able to be told by how the parent reacts.
And that's what it's about.
A Good Parent has a kid who's well-behaved in public. He won't sit there and wail like a demon. If he does the parent will put a stop to it or take the kid elsewhere to put a stop to it (edit: or at the very least not subject everyone else around them to the problem). (Exception: If the kid ends up hurting him/herself. That is a good reason to wail. Wanting a snickers bar is not.)
A Bad Parent has an obnoxious little shit that the parent spends more time battling for dominance, and losing, than doing whatever they're trying to accomplish.
Those of us who have opted not to have kids don't necessarily dislike children (I'm not a fan of young children, but meh, that's just me, I'm not against them either), for instance my girlfriend loves Children. Absolutely adores them. . . .
. . . .so long as she can give them back to their parents when she doesn't want to play with them anymore. ;)
Thing about it, Boma, is that throughout the whole statement Havvie made and my defense of it (You didn't just get shitty with Havvie, either, but whatever) none of that was about the kids themselves, even though they were the topic.
That was all about bad parents.
Edit: Thing about it is, we're critical of bad parenting even though we don't have kids because parenting is a SACRIFICE. Someone made a decision to give up a lot of the shit they normally would do to have the responsibility of raising another human being, which is exactly the reason we did NOT opt to have children. It's upsetting to see happen.
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You know - the interesting thing about this thread is on almost every post I have wanted to comment, but stepped back and thought carefully and decided, "I'll wait until tomorrow." By tomorrow someone has already made a post to deal with whatever thought I had. But so much of it seemed so relevant that I hope this blob of text helps explain.
It's an interesting *almost* self moderation.
I actually am grateful for Havvie's posts - and alot of the others.
Too tired at the moment to properly quote folks.
But it is absolutely true kids are being raised now a-days to believe they are special snowflakes. And more and more people are having less and less children. In some families, it's not just couples only having one kid, but in some families it's only *one* of the children having grandchildren - meaning that one child is being spoiled by not just the parents, but the grandparents, aunts... so forth. In America at least there seems to be this feeling of more about the "me" and screw the "we" - to the point that children don't think about others as they should.
I personally worry very much about my own parenting style - I worry about creating a special snowflake mentality myself. As someone that planned to have 2-3 kids with the person I had been with for*ever* (I want to say almost 10 years off and on, but at least 7 living together) who is a slow mover when it comes to getting married and having kids - even when all goes to plan I'm likely only having one - my turtle - Lisa.
What this means is that I'm now a single mom with only one child - my child is the world to me. I'm also the only single mom in the family - so everyone is (as they have finally accepted I'm *not* getting back together with my ex) coming forward to help. I happen to live in a small enough neighborhood where my family all bought property here that the example above of a "tribe" helping out with the child is very true. My sister lives with me, my half sister is my neighbor, my grandma lives a block down the road, two aunts a stones throw away and my mom a five minute drive.
With all these people right there, always playing with her - it's going to be hard to not spoil her.
Also - chicken pox vaccines don't work!
Here's what really happens... the kid gets the shot - so when they catch the chicken pox itself it isn't nearly as bad, just a few bites that look like maybe a flea bit them and they are perhaps a tiny bit cranky, but not sick enough to get sent home from daycare. *But* his teacher who only had a mild case of the chicken poxs gets it so bad that because she's an adult a normal clinic won't see her and she gets sent to the ER to get a note proving she has the chicken pox to keep her job since she *refuses* to go to work with the chickenpox and then spends two weeks in bed.
Ironically since this thread is a spin off of the thread Miz made - the chicken pox made it to where I woke myself up scratching. So in desperation in trying to find a way to sleep - we needed a way other then socks to keep me from scratching. So - hence the trip to the adult store to get the fuzzy restraints - I got tied down to the bed at night until the chicken pox went away. Chicken pox *is* a right of passage better done at five then at 20. Happy birthday - your strapped to the bed itching to death with a fever.
I think my random two cents to this is done. Carry on.
Oh - and tooth number 3 is coming in.
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But it is absolutely true kids are being raised now a-days to believe they are special snowflakes.
And that is a horrible disservice to the children, in my opinion. I was not raised to believe I was a special snowflake. I was raised to believe I was an individual in a sea of individuals, and that I should be myself, but in no way was I going to be a "winner" all the time. People lose, sometimes. Losing is important. Learning how to lose is the single-most important thing that can be taught to a child, because if you win all the time, you never really learn anything.
Nothing teaches someone more than losing.
And more and more people are having less and less children. In some families, it's not just couples only having one kid, but in some families it's only *one* of the children having grandchildren - meaning that one child is being spoiled by not just the parents, but the grandparents, aunts... so forth. In America at least there seems to be this feeling of more about the "me" and screw the "we" - to the point that children don't think about others as they should.
Actually, that is only half-true. It's not about the "me" generation as much as people believe (well, the snowflake crap is, but the less kids isn't).
That has everything to do with education. There are numerous statistical proofs and sociological studies that have shown a clear inverse relationship to level of education and number of kids, most especially with women.
In the US we have less and less children because we are more and more educated in comparison to a large number of nations (surprisingly). Women especially. It's clearly shown over decades of study that women who go to secondary school tend to have less children (one or two at most) and have them later in life.
My girlfriend and I are spot on the statistical norm, highly educated (though I didn't go to school for it), no intention of having children. My girlfriend is one of those insane people with three degrees.
Education is quite clearly the key to solving the over-population issue the world is facing. Moreso than anything else. The problem is that many developing countries, where over-population is a serious issue, do not value educating the women, mostly due to the fact that they find themselves in situations often where they can only afford to send one child to school, and the daughter is going to lose that one.
Here's a great TED talk on the topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/sheryl_wudunn_our_century_s_greatest_injustice.html (It's slightly offtopic as a whole, but it's on topic with what I'm talking about, to clarify)
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There's a difference between not liking kids and not liking obnoxious kids that people should have raised better.
<Snip>
This is exactly what I was trying to say. It's not so much I hate kids as I hate annoying bratty children who, to use the old cliche, think the universe revolves around them. Out in public I'm calm, collected and rather pleasant. In private with my friends IRL it's a roll of the dice as to if I'm calm, hyper or morose (in EVE you guys only see either srsbzns "I need an effing drink" IC!Havvie, or the Cloud Cuckoo Lander OOC!Havvie and none of the other extremes of my wildly varying personality)
Also: I was rather tongue-in-cheek with my "rant," but it seems that didn't go over so well and/or was interpreted as genuine malice/dislike. :|
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If you don't like kids, have an aversion to kids, had bad experienced as a kid/with your parents, whatever, why would you want to post in a thread where a bunch of people are basically celebrating and discussing them and the nuances of their existance?
Honestly, I am just curious.
I got all shitty with Havvie, and I apologize for not utilizing any sort of tact, but if kids aren't your speed, why post?
If you want everyone to agree with you on a particular topic, a livejournal community would probably be more appropriate than a discussion forum. You seem to think a dissenting opinion is trolling the happy baby thread - I don't think this is the case.
Though granted, my contribution was something of a troll :P Which I intended to leave at that, but am a compulsive forum whore :/ so my stance is the following:
I don't particularly feel like I'm going to have kids ever. Definitely not at the moment, despite my friends from high school becoming mothers :bash: which makes me feel really fecking old :(
That said, I think I'm in the 'don't like obnoxious kids' camp. The ear splitting piercing screams and demanding brats I could live without. However, I don't think I can actually generalize to 'not liking kids'... there's been plenty of times when I've been fine with kids being around me...
The other day I was in a coffee shop with a friend and a little kid from another table loudly piped up "what does 'die' mean?" We gave eachother 'oh shit' looks, but it turned out she meant hair dye, and was referring to the fact my friends hair was pink ^^ She asked if my hair was dyed too, and the father said yes it was. I didn't catch what she said next, but he replied "I think they just want a quiet cup of coffee, don't you?"
I found that exchange amusing/endearing rather than annoying. And I thought the dad handled her questions well.
And when I went to see my friends baby, that was also fine. (He puked on another friend, but not on me *\o/*) He was a cute little critter who looked quite happy and interested in everything and wasn't always bawling his eyes out.
(though that said, I was happy to interact with him from a distance, and when nappy changing occured I made myself scarce >.>)
So I guess, much like the rest of humanity, there's a small subset of kids I can actually get on with for a short period of time, and the rest I don't like :P
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Nikita spends four hours going over adoption law, rages, proceeds to use Havvie as punching bag
bleh, adoption is hard. >_>
Isn't is funny that it's harder to take in a child that was given away/abandoned/whatever reason the parent doesn't want the kid, then it is for CPS to take a child away from some parent that just got knocked up and is *not* a suitable parent at all?
Don't give up hun. And at least in the US there is a huge tax break to help with adoption costs incase you didn't know about that. In the short term - try babysitting? That's how I got my baby fix before Lisa.
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Isn't is funny that it's harder to take in a child that was given away/abandoned/whatever reason the parent doesn't want the kid, then it is for CPS to take a child away from some parent that just got knocked up and is *not* a suitable parent at all?
No. No it is not funny that it is harder to prove you will be a good parent than it is to take away a child from someone who is a bad parent.
It is as it should be.
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No. No it is not funny that it is harder to prove you will be a good parent than it is to take away a child from someone who is a bad parent.
It is as it should be.
On this, we agree.
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might be sort of relevant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bib3qCvxh5Q)
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Mildly side track:
Quote from that clip: "You know what kids that don't have any trauma end up being... boring! Accountants..."
What's wrong with accountants?! Geez... and I totally had trauma. Bleh.
And to above, I meant "It's it funny?" in a snippy tone because I find it troubling that it's hard for good people to adopt when there are so many children needing adopted.
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The trick is picking out which people are good, and more specifically able to love adopted children as they deserve.
One of my great regrets in life is that I couldn't quite convince my wife that we should adopt. She wanted to try for our "own" first, and when that turned out to be absurdly easy for us, that ended the opportunity. This is of course mollified by the fact that, hey, I have two wonderful children that I love more than life itself. But still, I will always wonder how I would have been as an adoptive dad.
I like to imagine "pretty good".
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I guess what frustrated me so much was at the end of the day, creating a 100% non-obnoxious kid is flat out impossible.
When they are young, like in the 1-3 year old range, they are gonna flip the fuck out. Period. There is nothing anyone can do about it. They are in a rage about their inability to communicate their needs or wants. And I still have to get my grocery shopping done. So everyone who doesn't like it can fuck the fuck off, because I can't fix the problem and I have shit to do.
If you guys are talking about the 4-8 year old crowd, I am with you 200%. If you can't get your kid to learn basic manners by then, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your motivation and/or desire and/or ability to be a parent.
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Oh Oh Oh and the adoption thing. Screw adoption, at least if you are in the US. Rather than adoption look into foster parenting. I want another kid BAD and my wife doesn't want to put up with another screaming infant.
Foster kids in the states really get the shit end of the stick once they are in the system.
[mod]Please review the rules, in particular rule 3.[/mod]
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Oh Oh Oh and the adoption thing. Screw adoption, at least if you are in the US. Rather than adoption look into foster parenting. I want another kid BAD and my wife doesn't want to put up with another screaming infant.
Foster kids in the states really get the shit end of the stick once they are in the system.
[mod]Moderated content[/mod]
Harsh way to word it but a good point.
Unless you *absolutely* have to have an infant - if you foster an older kid you can make a huge difference in their life and fairly often you are able to adopt the child.
I know a story of a girl that was in a foster home for years, only say her mom once a year and when the birth-mother died (drug overdose... we weren't surprised) the foster mom did not have to fight at all for adoption and the paperwork was done in less then a week. While she didn't get the girl until the child was 2 (? memory recalling correctly) that child was definitely hers.