Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ria Nieyli]

I see a lot of people just straight up listing FW as unimportant. Why? Is there anything meaningful that you can actually do ingame?

[Jev North]

It's a complicated mix of issues:
-Pushback against people talking up FW as the best or only way to demonstrate faction loyalty, which is (for some incomprehensible reason) important to some;
-Dislike of the fact that FW is unwinnable by design, and the consequences considered to be mostly isolated to a few backwater regions.
-Really sour grapes.

[ValentinaDLM]

Earlier when entosising a system to draw a fight, and Welp we did someone made the comment they didn't even realize faction warfare alliances could hold sovereignty... That seems utterly ridiculous that someone would even question that they could until I thought about how people talk down about FW.

I have even had potential recruits say "I love the cheap doctrine oriented PVP you guys do I would totally join up if you weren't just an FW corp" but, that statement makes no real sense. What do pirate corps have? Moons, pocos? We could do that too. What do null corps have? Allies and sov? We can do that too. And wormholes sure as hell don't eject our ships for being FW.

I honestly blame this attitude on many peoples first encounters with FW being stabbed NPC corp farmers. It makes them think that we are noobs who don't know what they are doing which isn't close to the truth faction warfare empowers you to get all sorts of additional content at the cost of making highsec a bit more annoying and not being able to do I in a few stations btw both things that null or pirate players will deal with. Heck bebop will be Bridge a proteus fleet on you, and that is pretty scary to me.

[Veiki]

FW has only been as important as those participating in it have attached value to its activities. Historically, it's always been less about the official narrative about the factions and more about the conflict narratives between different player groups and personalities over the years. Which really is not any different to anywhere else in Eve.

There has however always existed a degree of expectation among roleplayers especially, that FW should be a, "Proper," conflict fought only between political and ideological loyalists who all have to abide by certain rules like it's some kind of LARP fought in a park and presided over by GM's who enforce those rules and who provide an overarching narrative.

As FW has developed though, it has essentially become analogous to a third-world conflict fought in some resource rich backwater and conducted by a varied collection of corporate mercenaries, adventurers, war profiteers, paramilitary groups, and soldiers of fortune that have turned entire sectors of low-sec into the New Eden versions of Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Chechnya or eastern Ukraine.

The latter however, while I find realistic to the setting of Eve, does cause problems for those that desire some kind of factional Grand Narrative provided by CCP within the setting of FW.

[Ria Nieyli]

 I see.

I view FW as sov lite. You get to go on fleets, flip systems or just generally shoot people that are trying to do the same to you while going "Grrr opposing faction". The narrative is real, just by the virtue of people joining said opposing faction and trying to turn your ship into a wreck.

[Veiki]

Well, FW is still much like the rest of Eve in that you seek to set your own objectives and then go out and seek to accomplish them while contextualizing your actions as you see fit.

That said, there will always be objectives that fall in realistic expectations and ones that fall into unrealistic expectations within the scope of the game mechanics and other player behaviour. Setting objectives for yourself with unrealistic expectations of how the mechanics should be, and how others should behave is a fantastic way to set yourself on the road of burnout, disappointment, bitterness, and participation in the Eve is dying thread of the week/month/year.

[Ria Nieyli]

Err, the EVE community has some preset expectations of what players' objectives should be and it spares no time to tell them exactly that.

[Alain Colcer]

FW has only been as important as those participating in it have attached value to its activities. Historically, it's always been less about the official narrative about the factions and more about the conflict narratives between different player groups and personalities over the years. Which really is not any different to anywhere else in Eve.

There has however always existed a degree of expectation among roleplayers especially, that FW should be a, "Proper," conflict fought only between political and ideological loyalists who all have to abide by certain rules like it's some kind of LARP fought in a park and presided over by GM's who enforce those rules and who provide an overarching narrative.

As FW has developed though, it has essentially become analogous to a third-world conflict fought in some resource rich backwater and conducted by a varied collection of corporate mercenaries, adventurers, war profiteers, paramilitary groups, and soldiers of fortune that have turned entire sectors of low-sec into the New Eden versions of Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Chechnya or eastern Ukraine.

The latter however, while I find realistic to the setting of Eve, does cause problems for those that desire some kind of factional Grand Narrative provided by CCP within the setting of FW.

+1

With the only addition of mentioning that some of the FW roleplaying groups could have coupled "economic/social" development to a particular contested system and try to sway things into some interesting storytelling along the way...but most just focus on the "i won this system for my faction".

[Kador Ouryon]

I don't want to sound like I am talking negatively about Faction Warfare or claiming it is unimportant especially being as casual and EVE player as I am...

But I've had some of the highest peaks being involved in EVE FW in gaming alongside the worst lows. This game can be an abysmal waste of time being locked into what is effectively frigate and destroyer combat where groups stubbornly refuse to fight at all but can be incredibly enjoyable when larger groups of players fight it out or larger ships are involved.

Worst bit of FW EVE side is the nonsense on the forums... its a wholly unwelcoming experience. I mean reading those comments there are militia's you couldn't pay me to join... and if given the chance to re-do my FW career over I'm not sure I'd even be in the Militia I am currently in.

[Veiki]

Err, the EVE community has some preset expectations of what players' objectives should be and it spares no time to tell them exactly that.

The Eve community doesn't pay my subscription, so I don't feel I have to care what their expectations may or may not be. 

That doesn't change the fact that FW is at core just a free wardec with an associated revenue stream. If people enjoy that, then they do. If they don't, then they don't. Some personal or character goals synchronize well with FW, and others don't.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

With the only addition of mentioning that some of the FW roleplaying groups could have coupled "economic/social" development to a particular contested system and try to sway things into some interesting storytelling along the way...but most just focus on the "i won this system for my faction".

The problem with that is, as always, the impossibility of achieving anything lasting in FW. It can be heartbreaking to pick a homesystem, claim it as your own, and attempt to develop and defend it - because there is essentially nothing you can do to control the meta-narrative of the pendulum effect of the warzone. The Macro-War is simply bigger than you are - and for every Heydieles where we successfully defended a system there have been about five Enaluris where we got kicked out anyway.

So, it's very easy to say "I took that system for Deh Emprehhs" or whatever - the achievement is logged. It's real. It happened. But you have to maintain the freedom to walk away from that victory, because two weeks later the surging and vital forces of Tribal Liberation are trumpeting their victory in the forums. And two weeks later, you get YOUR turn again.

Personally, I've tried to never play that game, because it is SO susceptible to the whole "so what?" syndrome. Most of the RP excitement over FW has gone well and truly stale and cold and all that remains is tight Cruiser and smaller small-gang PvP. But you can get some very nice scraps in FW, on very short notice and at a very reasonable investment!

[Ria Nieyli]

With the only addition of mentioning that some of the FW roleplaying groups could have coupled "economic/social" development to a particular contested system and try to sway things into some interesting storytelling along the way...but most just focus on the "i won this system for my faction".

The problem with that is, as always, the impossibility of achieving anything lasting in FW. It can be heartbreaking to pick a homesystem, claim it as your own, and attempt to develop and defend it - because there is essentially nothing you can do to control the meta-narrative of the pendulum effect of the warzone. The Macro-War is simply bigger than you are - and for every Heydieles where we successfully defended a system there have been about five Enaluris where we got kicked out anyway.

So, it's very easy to say "I took that system for Deh Emprehhs" or whatever - the achievement is logged. It's real. It happened. But you have to maintain the freedom to walk away from that victory, because two weeks later the surging and vital forces of Tribal Liberation are trumpeting their victory in the forums. And two weeks later, you get YOUR turn again.

Personally, I've tried to never play that game, because it is SO susceptible to the whole "so what?" syndrome. Most of the RP excitement over FW has gone well and truly stale and cold and all that remains is tight Cruiser and smaller small-gang PvP. But you can get some very nice scraps in FW, on very short notice and at a very reasonable investment!

Yeah, but nullsec is susceptible to someone coming over and taking your system from you by force as well.

As for cruisers and down, all the complaints I hear about it sound like just bittervetting. And mind you, a bittervet isn't someone with lots of experience in the game. A bittervet is someone that has something change on him and couldn't adapt. Because for all the self-aggrandisement that the EVE community does, saying how good they are, they seem to be just as bad as everyone else. It's extremely jarring for a new player.

[Elmund Egivand]

However, when you own nullsec systems you can prop your own shite there and also do some resource development.

In FW, you just take a system, claim some LPs and get along with it. Losing the system doesn't really give you much consequences beyond giving the occupiers an easier time to kick your POS, another staging ground for the occupiers, having your in-station stuff locked up (though retrievable by simply leaving FW or by contracting stuff to third party to move from station) and earning less LP from doing anything FW-related.

[Ria Nieyli]

Station systems are extremely important strategically. Less so with the coming of citadels. But hey, citadels! Now you can prop up your shit ANYWHERE.

[Elmund Egivand]

Station systems are extremely important strategically.

As I said, another staging ground and having your own stuff locked up. However, the advantages of owning something in FW isn't nearly as comprehensive as taking and owning a nullsec system.

And you can always go around the 'stuff locked up' consequence of losing your system in FW, and pretty easily at that. In Nullsec, you evacuate within the allocated period before that system really does end up going to the other guy or all the asset becomes theirs for the taking. Not to mention the resource development.