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[Jennifer Starfall]

If you wanted to fly with your OOC friends, and this is not an option for the current character you are playing, then you make new characters to do it with.

Not to answer for Tibs, but time invested in the character (4 years in his case)? Because it's a game and intended to be fun?

"But RL friendships" will never get a pass from me as an excuse to break character. IC/OOC separation.

This starts straying into YDIW territory. That may be how you choose to play, but it's not how he chooses to play.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there is a problem with some of the people in FW and the loyalties they're expressing. But, I'll point out that the Sansha in PYRE aren't RPing the Sansha angle. They're RPing the defense of the Imperial war zone against enemies of the Empire.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

To put a more exact point on it, we are RPing the absolute murder of a group of capsuleers as an excuse to continue to fly with people whom we get along with OOC.

[Esna Pitoojee]

The problem is they aren't -not- RPing Sansha either. If it were a case of everyone there being permanently retired from RPing and never showing up in RP channels I think there would be considerably more leeway given, as it would be viewed as a purely OOC issue.

Because they continue to RP and appear in RP channels, however, you run smack into the IC issue of remembering their past actions: Why should your character fly with someone who was kidnapping millions of your citizens yesterday, when said person is still active in character and shows absolutely zero change from their previous viewpoints or any actions and desire to compensate for what they've done?

Putting aside that, by PF, Sansha cannot be trusted if they just say they quit the Nation anyhow - I would not expect Esna to be forgiven if he suddenly joined Minmatar militia and made absolutely zero motion towards freeing slaves, breaking with the Empire, etc.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

If RP has become an unfun inconvenience, I don't think anyone would be upset about you just declaring you'll be an OOC player from now on and ditching it.

I mean that genuinely - I'm not trying to be passive-agressive.

[Aelisha]

The issue here isn't people not flying with them: they have plenty of people in and out of corp who will fly with them.

It is the implied and occasionally explicit 'GTFO of Amarr Militia' message that is the issue.  Blaming the symptom, not the cause.

Fortunately, having a minority of people not take your RP seriously is not exactly the burden it once was. 

[Samira Kernher]

If you wanted to fly with your OOC friends, and this is not an option for the current character you are playing, then you make new characters to do it with.

"But RL friendships" will never get a pass from me as an excuse to break character. IC/OOC separation.

Umm....no. No one would sacrifice years of training and character investment so someone else could feel better about rp purity when that person can't accept valid and logical reasons for their character doing what they're doing.

That's literally pants on head...

Don't put words in my mouth. I specifically said "if this is not an option for the current character". If they do have valid and logical in-character reasons then by all means. But if it's solely inventing BS reasons that don't make any sense for the character in order to support OOC wishes, that is quite simply bad RP.

A character should not be changed from what they are in order to support purely OOC desires.

The only group I've ever heard of and taken seriously in Rp anything is Imperial Outlaws.

The rest just look like your typical FW corps. Or is that what you were talking about?

EVE is a full-time IC game. Everything is RP. And if FW corps are acting like blood raiders, setting up slave massacres and boasting about their blood sacrifice on the IGS (which Fweddit did, and like Nauplius continually does), then that absolutely can and will be taken IC, no matter how RP-lite they might be.

Pyre are not the ones that are pissing me off. They are representative of the bigger problem, but they are one of the least offenders in my opinion.

Anyhow:
If you can't do what you want in FW, but have to do what you don't want in FW, then there is, imho, an easy solution:
Walk away from FW. It's not like PIE didn't prosper before FW. And it did so in fighting along Amarr against the enemies of Amarr. It's pretty much feasible. Ofc. I dunno what PIE's stance is in this regard and how comitted they are to FW.

Walking away from it is not a decision that is up to me. I am not PIE leadership.

I also think it's pretty hillarious to expect the one actual Amarr-loyal corporation in the militia to leave it, due to the infestation of non-loyal corps. Proves everything Miz said about it forcing off loyalists.

[Silas Vitalia]

Like I said, shitty game mechanics put RPers in impossible logic scenarios. 

FW and its unintended shitty consequences is an absolute no-win situation for those RPers trying to maintain the smallest bit of character consistency and faction loyalty.

Unfortunately that game design ship has not only already sailed, it's been abandoned and on fire and filled with plague for going on 7 years now.

[Anskek]

Judge Anskek for new forum mod please.

Not even if you paid me.

[Ashley]

Ultimately, for all those people who are basically skipping around the issue and going "I hate that Pyre have Sansha Loyalists in their ranks and they are flying with the Amarr" can simply tell me to my face that they want me not to fly with people I enjoy flying with for the sake of my RP purity, and then I will laugh and laugh and laugh and keep flying with people whom I enjoy flying with.

Tyvm!

Yes, you should not fly with people you enjoy flying with if flying with them is a breach of RP purity. What is the point of roleplaying if people are't actually going to play the role they chose to play?


All that being said, frankly Pyre is not the worst offender. If it was just Pyre I wouldn't really care. It's all the other ones in 24IC that piss me off.

Out of curiosity who are the other ones? Pyre was the only one I know about.

Everyone on these killmails:

http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17950783
https://zkillboard.com/kill/37237863/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/42719933/

There are a lot more blooders than that in the 24th.

[Ember Vykos]

If you wanted to fly with your OOC friends, and this is not an option for the current character you are playing, then you make new characters to do it with.

"But RL friendships" will never get a pass from me as an excuse to break character. IC/OOC separation.

Umm....no. No one would sacrifice years of training and character investment so someone else could feel better about rp purity when that person can't accept valid and logical reasons for their character doing what they're doing.

That's literally pants on head...

Don't put words in my mouth. I specifically said "if this is not an option for the current character". If they do have valid and logical in-character reasons then by all means. But if it's solely inventing BS reasons that don't make any sense for the character in order to support OOC wishes, that is quite simply bad RP.

A character should not be changed from what they are in order to support purely OOC desires.

Not trying to put words in your mouth...thats how I interpreted it. I agree with you on the point about BS reasons being bad RP, but I don't see Tibs and company coming up with BS reasons.

The only group I've ever heard of and taken seriously in Rp anything is Imperial Outlaws.

The rest just look like your typical FW corps. Or is that what you were talking about?

EVE is a full-time IC game. Everything is RP. And if FW corps are acting like blood raiders, setting up slave massacres and boasting about their blood sacrifice on the IGS (which Fweddit did, and like Nauplius continually does), then that absolutely can and will be taken IC, no matter how RP-lite they might be.

Pyre are not the ones that are pissing me off. They are representative of the bigger problem, but they are one of the least offenders in my opinion.

Pretty sure Fweddit may at most be RP-Troll'n. Which is why I generally don't take them or any other groups that do that very seriously at all. Sure they do something and I'll react then I'll forget about it once the stink dies down and never mention it again.

EVE isn't a full time IC game for everyone. The people that actually RP I'll pay attention to, but the rest not so much usually.

[Gaven Lok ri]

If you wanted to fly with your OOC friends, and this is not an option for the current character you are playing, then you make new characters to do it with.

Not to answer for Tibs, but time invested in the character (4 years in his case)? Because it's a game and intended to be fun?

"But RL friendships" will never get a pass from me as an excuse to break character. IC/OOC separation.

This starts straying into YDIW territory. That may be how you choose to play, but it's not how he chooses to play.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there is a problem with some of the people in FW and the loyalties they're expressing. But, I'll point out that the Sansha in PYRE aren't RPing the Sansha angle. They're RPing the defense of the Imperial war zone against enemies of the Empire.

As I see it actions in EVE have consequences and can't be OOC.

But the OOC reason for doing something and the IC reason for doing something don't have to match. And the OOC reason can drive the IC reason. I don't see *anything* wrong with molding your character to be able to fly with friends. But if you change your actions you are also changing your characters.

And well, if you have a character that is say 100% anti-Sansha flying with a Sansha character for OOC friend reasons, the 100% anti-Sansha character has an IC problem that they need to deal with. If the player ignores it, then they are playing a character that is actively ignoring a problem because it is too much to deal with. This is fine. People do it all the time. But that ignoring the problem is in and of itself an IC action as well as an OOC one.

I also don't actually think RP is shrinking so much as diffusing. Faction RP is *certainly* smaller than it was at one point in time. But that shouldn't be too surprising given the overall direction of EVE's marketing.

Also, I actually had some good local RP with a U'K member while chasing each-other around some FW system or another a week or so ago. So that side of things isn't *completely* dead.

[Samira Kernher]

Not trying to put words in your mouth...thats how I interpreted it. I agree with you on the point about BS reasons being bad RP, but I don't see Tibs and company coming up with BS reasons.

The intent behind my initial response was simply this:

In a case where there is a conflict between maintaining character integrity versus fulfilling OOC desires, then maintaining character integrity comes first in my opinion.

Pretty sure Fweddit may at most be RP-Troll'n. Which is why I generally don't take them or any other groups that do that very seriously at all. Sure they do something and I'll react then I'll forget about it once the stink dies down and never mention it again.

EVE isn't a full time IC game for everyone. The people that actually RP I'll pay attention to, but the rest not so much usually.

They may not be, but the game as a whole is. When these things happen, they happen within the universe, and that means I need to react to everything from an in-character perspective. That means I cannot pick and choose who I pay attention to based on my OOC beliefs, nor based on whether I OOCly consciously know that they are just trolling. Because by the nature of the game it isn't just OOC trolling, because the moment it affects the game world it is also IC trolling. In-game actions are IC. My character will necessarily have to respond to it based on her in-character beliefs.

And in the time that I've been playing I've had to respond to it on a very frequent basis.

[Ember Vykos]

I'm not even gonna try to break up quotes on my phone....so

Samira I totally agree with you on that top quote, and sorry I misinterpreted a bit.

On the second bit I do see your point and I react to them as well, but not as much as I would say...Samira suddenly defecting to U'K.

tapaderped

[Karmilla Strife]

*The state of RP is dead. I blame that one corp of RPers who are having a great time playing the game, being friendly to each other, RPing internally within their corp, and interacting with the rest of the RP community.*

Seriously a lot of this thread reads like "It's not fair that people are having fun without me." There are very frequently complaints on this very forum that RP corporations don't do anything in space. That RP groups only interact with their own insular groups. That RP doesn't have consequences. PYRE is doing all of those things.

We're active in space everyday. We interact with RPers in every faction, whether they want it or not. I can't speak for every member, but I certainly know I spend a lot of my RP time dealing with the consequences of being a PYRE member. It's a lot of fun.  I get to be involved in the story. I get to be part of the RP collective conversation instead of being a fly on the wall in a dozen dead RP channels wondering why I even paid that $15.

Haters are gonna hate, but at least we're giving the rest of you something to talk about.

[Anskek]

Redacted. Not worth it.