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[Samira Kernher]

Also no, it's not an easy way to harvest people. An easy way to harvest them is to come into the warzone as a pirate and shoot both sides. No, if you're actually joining a militia you're doing it for an easy way to harvest isk, because that's the only actual reason to join the militia beyond factional loyalty (which you're not after).

If pirates would actually come in as pirates, then there wouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't represent us and we'd be able to shoot them as they deserve. But instead they all join the militia instead to whore on isk, while waving their arms talking about how "loyal" they are.

[Ember Vykos]

Meh if I bring Simca back as say....a Blood Raider. Her motivation to enter FW would probably be along the lines of her having an easy way to harvest people.

You and everyone else in 24IC these days. With one easy sentence you've answered your own question about what the big deal is.

I didn't join FW to fight beside blood raiders.

Doesn't mean you won't have to. The Empires probably don't really care who is fighting for them as long as there are people fighting for them. I'm sure regular army doesn't like the PMC groups that come in and have more leeway in what they can do. This is the same thing. Hell the Empires might actually know and encourage this type of thing. If I was the Amarr empire and I noticed a group of Sansha coming in and fighting off the Minnies AND taking them home with them....I might just turn a blind eye, shred the evidence that I know, and disavow any knowledge of it. Technically they're doing a service...sre theyre our enemies, but the Minmatar are a bigger enemy...of both of them.

[Mizhara]

Also no, it's not an easy way to harvest people. An easy way to harvest them is to come into the warzone as a pirate and shoot both sides. No, if you're actually joining a militia you're doing it for an easy way to harvest isk, because that's the only actual reason to join the militia beyond factional loyalty (which you're not after).

If pirates would actually come in as pirates, then there wouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't represent us and we'd be able to shoot them as they deserve. But instead they all join the militia instead to whore on isk, while waving their arms talking about "loyal" they are.

Very succinctly put.

"We're X!"   *does something completely different, because it's OOC convenient*  "Why aren't you taking us seriously?!"

[Ember Vykos]

Also no, it's not an easy way to harvest people. An easy way to harvest them is to come into the warzone as a pirate and shoot both sides. No, if you're actually joining a militia you're doing it for an easy way to harvest isk, because that's the only actual reason to join the militia beyond factional loyalty (which you're not after).

If pirates would actually come in as pirates, then there wouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't represent us and we'd be able to shoot them as they deserve. But instead they all join the militia instead to whore on isk, while waving their arms talking about how "loyal" they are.

Nah I could justify that ICly in a few ways. PYRE does the whole PMC thing, but on a personal level...well fighting and loosing ships costs ISK. I mean you have ammo, mods, ships, more ammo mods and ships, bigger ammo mods and ships...it all adds up. Only an idiot would sit on the sidelines for more targets when you can still go into a fairly target rich environment and get paid for it.

[Anskek]

Given the mechanics, justification or not doesn't really matter. I could join Amarr FW and shit up the place right proper, giving PIE and I-RED a few visits etc etc. It does not make much sense IC that the 24th would accept Miz, would it? It would make even less sense if I joined Amarr FW and still claimed to be a Minnie loyalist.

This is one of the areas where mechanics and making sense does not match, and going by the mechanics alone is detrimental to RP overall.

Not that it matters. Anyone's entirely capable and willing to do whatever they want in Eve and what my or anyone else's opinion on it might be won't actually change anything. All I'm doing here is pointing out why I think a lot of what we see being done is detrimental to faction RP in general.

Double agent. AWOXing. Long game. Etc.

[Silas Vitalia]

CCP's implementation and subsequent neglect of the Faction Warfare system/mechanics are in my opinion one of the worst things that ever happened to the game.

I'm of the opinion it pretty much destroyed an entire world of creative content generation from Roleplayers, not to mention being structured from the outset as a system to be gamed and not to participate in for competition's sake.

[Ember Vykos]

CCP's implementation and subsequent neglect of the Faction Warfare system/mechanics are in my opinion one of the worst things that ever happened to the game.

I'm of the opinion it pretty much destroyed an entire world of creative content generation from Roleplayers, not to mention being structured from the outset as a system to be gamed and not to participate in for competition's sake.

Very good points.

[Morwen Lagann]

CCP's implementation and subsequent neglect of the Faction Warfare system/mechanics are in my opinion one of the worst things that ever happened to the game.

I'm of the opinion it pretty much destroyed an entire world of creative content generation from Roleplayers, not to mention being structured from the outset as a system to be gamed and not to participate in for competition's sake.

You are not alone.

[Anskek]

TBH jokes aside, I do see it as what the trailer said. The Empires' are losing their grip. The Capsuleers are on the rise and taking more and more control. If you think FW ruined possible RP, then honestly you're the only one to blame for limiting yourself to Empire loyalist RP. I mean shit, Miz went above and beyond the basic Minnie loyalist RP to DO WHAT MUST BE DONE. I'm pretty sure the Republic wouldn't have DONE WHAT HAD TO BE DONE in terms of general loyalist actions.

If you wanna be a loyalist, be one. But don't blame FW.

[Evi Polevhia]

Let's start an initiative to get Pirates out of FW. I think it should be led by Miz and Samira since they've been the most vocal about it. Where should we start?

"Here, DeT Resprox forged a pact with the narcotic barons of the Blood Raider Covenant, they too had been locked in a struggle with the Amarrian Empire. Profits increased as drugs were pumped into the foul veins of Amarr under the supply of Draclira Merlonne..............and slowly............ a new form began to mould itself from the hatred placed upon the Amarrs offspring."

[Silas Vitalia]

Faction Warfare became this giant inescapable elephant in the room for the RP community;  it put many RPers in an awful spot, because here was this thing that was the most obvious and natural IC way to support your faction, but then gets no attention from CCP on the million ways in which it was structurally and PF awful, and neglected for what, 5 or 6 years now with no movement or changes?

Everyone who participates eventually ends up looking like idiots for doing the same thing for 5 years and having their empires let in all sorts of groups that it wouldn't, etc.  N

It's a black hole of RP; very difficult to escape it's influence on the rest of the scene. 

Look at it this way; all these people sucked into the endless slog that doesn't go anywhere are roleplayers who in an earlier time would have joined other RP corps with varying interests and more dynamic content.  When you aren't getting trapped into an endless cycle of shit that doesn't go anywhere you are forced to come up with your own adventures and arcs and events between players.   Not only that, the people who aren't trapped in that environment at least had a critical mass of other people to DO creative things with who weren't perma-stuck in trench warfare.

It's this half-assed stand in for content that sucks all the air out of the room.     

[Silas Vitalia]

If you wanna be a loyalist, be one. But don't blame FW.

Anslo I absolutely will blame FW for a lot of things, no joke.  I was around for a few years before it was launched, so I have a very clear picture of a before and after with regards to what people were doing creatively with each other and what people participated in.

There was a before, which was interesting, and then there was an after, which became much less interesting.

You are right in that it's of course still up to the players, but my point is that FW served as this thing that sucked up all the excess energy.  If you were someone who got RPers to do events or fight wars with each other or have big arcs, the people available to participate and make those things happen and interesting dropped by 90%.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Ultimately, for all those people who are basically skipping around the issue and going "I hate that Pyre have Sansha Loyalists in their ranks and they are flying with the Amarr" can simply tell me to my face that they want me not to fly with people I enjoy flying with for the sake of my RP purity, and then I will laugh and laugh and laugh and keep flying with people whom I enjoy flying with.

Tyvm!

[Ember Vykos]

Much as I think it could be improved for RP...FW wasn't created for RPers it was created for casual players that wanted PVP and/or ISK with a bit of competition and a goal...attainable goal or not...and that didn't want to go to null sec.

Elephant in the room...maybe, but it's also something we have to either work around or avoid. The casual PVPer playerbase is bigger than the RP playerbase....guess who gets the catering.

[Samira Kernher]

Let's start an initiative to get Pirates out of FW. I think it should be led by Miz and Samira since they've been the most vocal about it. Where should we start?

Whenever FW comes up I always promote changing it to empires vs pirates. That is a very easy fix, and one that would make great amounts of sense in lore. But CCP is unlikely to do shit about it.


Also, +1 to everything that Silas said.