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[Aelisha]

@ Miz

No offense intended in my previous post, I meant to address the use of edgy and other verbal hooks rather than implying you directly dislike given groups. 

@ The General Public

I do, however, stand by the fact that there seems to be a misplacement of the burden of action on so-called pirates, instead of applied mass pressure on CCP (via CSM or otherwise) to cater to the clear need/desire for piratical outlets in terms of alignment and roleplay.  It may be easier to attack (directly or indirectly) those you feel 'bring down the neighborhood' but you're trying to kill the symptom not the cause.  One should not cauterise one's tear ducts to cure sadness, just because crying indicates that state. 

Asking people to leave the isk/pvp fountain of plenty because you feel they aren't 'in theme' is incredibly arrogant.  If being off-theme we a reason to not be granted membership, we'd have a team curating FW.  We are NOT curators, no matter how offended or aggrieved we may be at how some choose to use mechanics.  The simple fact remains - we have no alternative, we can roleplay in this grey area and we will continue to do so until we get our own sand-castle building kit. 

This does feel distressingly like a sub-urban Neighbourhood Committee at this stage, with people complaining about the value of their sandcastle and how someone building theirs on the same street is bringing the place down.  The truth is you own your sandcastle, not the street you built it on, and they own theirs. 

Push for FW for all factional alignments if you must as impossible it may seem to get it implemented.  But asking people to 'grow a pair' or 'move on' is school yard tripe.  Doinitrong on steroids even.  If we choose to fragment ourselves on pointless pissing competitions and fracturing of what little voter base there is for rp-related gameplay into self-defeating blocks of inconsequence we have only ourselves to blame. 

Ask not why the pirate doesn't leave your militia, but instead ask what would provide a meaningful alternative.  You're never going to get us to leave with the former, and as impossible as the latter may seem; if it did come to pass then we'd all get a better, more diverse game for it.  Also the people you currently oppose would mostly push with you for alternatives. 

We're here because there's no reason not to be. 

[Mizhara]

I think I'm perfectly entitled to hold the opinion that pirates don't belong in FW. It's a factional entity where you should be able to be a faction loyalist without having to tolerate the enemies of your faction turning it into a festering sewer. If they disagree and remain, it's their choice but saying I don't get to consider that detrimental to the faction and to the rp community overall and so on smacks of censoring an opinion because it's uncomfortable.

It really is not my job to provide pirates with a playground. It is the responsibility of each player to either deal with the consequences of their choices or ignore them. Ignoring them simply means they have earned zero respect and want to have their cake and eat it.

You want to roleplay X? Then bloody roleplay X and play it out, consequences and all. If you don't, well... why should anyone ever take you seriously, ever again?

[Aelisha]

You can hold whatever opinion you like, I am not attacking that and nor would I.  I am however, willing and indeed eager to point out the pointlessness of pushing it on people.  The reasonable (EDIT to clarify: reasonable, passive opposition - people can be reasonable AND agree with you of course) will ignore it, the concerned (as I am) will reply to it seeking a middle-ground, and the trolls will see it as a banner to rally against and do the exact opposite. 

You can hold any opinion you like, the same as I hold the opinion that asking people to leave, even demanding it, is pointless, arrogant and adopts the mien of curator that we just do not possess. 

I also hold the opinion that you have a point in a round about fashion that I agree with: pirate involvement in FW is unintended and is potentially against the original intent of the militias.  If alternatives existed, I'd probably stand right alongside you.  That not being the case, I'll instead suggest that we should all be pushing (together) for a more diverse, meaningful FW experience for all, with more factions - instead of trying to push out the few people who might take that stance with us. 

[Evi Polevhia]

You want to roleplay X? Then bloody roleplay X and play it out, consequences and all. If you don't, well... why should anyone ever take you seriously, ever again?

We have been.

[Mizhara]

This is less a matter of trying to push them out and instead simply making the displeasure known. Pushing CCP for anything is not an option as they really could not give less of a shit what any of us think and there really are no solutions. It is however a very significant cause to point at for the struggles of loyalist RP, as there's literally nowhere to go that isn't already infested by every (IC) piece of scum in Eve, making a mockery of whatever banner you fly under.

Evi: I strongly disagree.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I'm doing loyalist stuff and am quite happy to report: No infestation "by every (IC) piece of scum in Eve, making a mockery of whatever banner (I) fly under."

[Anskek]

THE EMPIRES' ARE LOSING THEIR GRIP

[Saede Riordan]

Things are still going great in Origin. We have lots of RP and PVP. 

[Ember Vykos]

Meh if I bring Simca back as say....a Blood Raider. Her motivation to enter FW would probably be along the lines of her having an easy way to harvest people. My motivation for joining FW would be easy access to PVP, income, and PYRE  . Another aspect is that pvp is more fun with access to friends so why not go with FW and at least have some allies as opposed to going it alone. That line of thinking is applicable both IC and OOC.

Your character may not like her presence, but her reasoning for being there is no more or less important than your characters.

Edit:
Going to go ahead and clarify a bit. She isn't joining FW to help or hinder any faction. She's joining to make things easier on her.

[Anyanka Funk]

Meh if I bring Simca back as say....a Blood Raider. Her motivation to enter FW would probably be along the lines of her having an easy way to harvest people. My motivation for joining FW would be easy access to PVP, income, and PYRE  . Another aspect is that pvp is more fun with access to friends so why not go with FW and at least have some allies as opposed to going it alone. That line of thinking is applicable both IC and OOC.

Your character may not like her presence, but her reasoning for being there is no more or less important than your characters.

This.

There is no minmatar rp? My corp is half minmatar and in militia rping as Sabik to aid the underdog in the war against empire. How is this not win win? We are staying true to canon and trying to get more blood into the vein of Minnie rp.

[Mizhara]

Bit of a difference between Blooder and Minnie RP.

[Anskek]

Irrelevant. Their justification is still sound.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Eves RP community seems to be increasingly shrinking and thus being unable to adequately cater to everyones styles and areas of interest, which inherently self-reinforces and results in further shrinking. People who like to take things very seriously are having to play with people who have a sillier style because there's no one else, people who like x faction are having to play with y faction because there's no else, people who like a certain faction are having to compromise either their roleplay or engage in gameplay they don't enjoy because there are simply no other options, etc.

It's a spiral I've seen in tons of MMOs in the later days of their life cycles, (it's probably slower in eve because of the one server thing) and it always ends in the eventual final death of organized roleplay in that community - It's almost impossible to recover from. The reason, frankly, is that there are simply better games to roleplay in every sense except sandbox appeal, so that's where new roleplayers go.

I wouldn't say this is a terrible thing, though. Everyone needs to move on to new stuff eventually, and 11+ years is a pretty darn good run. And of course, it won't run out of steam completely for a good long while yet.

[Mizhara]

Given the mechanics, justification or not doesn't really matter. I could join Amarr FW and shit up the place right proper, giving PIE and I-RED a few visits etc etc. It does not make much sense IC that the 24th would accept Miz, would it? It would make even less sense if I joined Amarr FW and still claimed to be a Minnie loyalist.

This is one of the areas where mechanics and making sense does not match, and going by the mechanics alone is detrimental to RP overall.

Not that it matters. Anyone's entirely capable and willing to do whatever they want in Eve and what my or anyone else's opinion on it might be won't actually change anything. All I'm doing here is pointing out why I think a lot of what we see being done is detrimental to faction RP in general.

[Samira Kernher]

Meh if I bring Simca back as say....a Blood Raider. Her motivation to enter FW would probably be along the lines of her having an easy way to harvest people.

You and everyone else in 24IC these days. With one easy sentence you've answered your own question about what the big deal is.

I joined FW to fight for and beside Amarr, not blood raiders.