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[Saede Riordan]

The counter point, and there is some amount of evidence of it on this forum, is that on several occasions someone does suggest doing something, and then a bunch of people pile on with statements like:
"this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in" - then why did you post ?
"Not interested, also I would express disapproval towards anyone who did express interest" - okay ?

which only creates the impression of people wanting to stop others from RPing, for OOC reasons.

No Fun Allowed.

[Ember Vykos]

And, for the record, I hope people aren't just trying to 'win'?

This is EVE....of course we're all trying to win. Some of us are just more gracious losers than others. RP is like PVP in that regard. It's a constant flow of winning and losing just instead of ships it arguments or drinking contests, mud wrestling...whatever it happens to be but ultimately someone wins and someone loses.

[Louella Dougans]

The counter point, and there is some amount of evidence of it on this forum, is that on several occasions someone does suggest doing something, and then a bunch of people pile on with statements like:
"this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in" - then why did you post ?
which only creates the impression of people wanting to stop others from RPing, for OOC reasons.

No Fun Allowed.

I just have to stick my head in here and say absolutely not.

When I say "this isn't something any of my characters would go to", I mean "...but it looks interesting so I'm making a post in your thread so you know that I've noticed and am supporting you." Very often I will say as much as well.

Really, if I think something is that dumb, I'll either try to pick it apart in a logical pattern or just not say anything to avoid breaking Backstage rules.

that's entirely different though.

"This isn't something that any of my characters would participate in, but looks fun and I'd recommend it to other people" is very different to just saying "this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in".

been some posts where that's all there was in the way of responses to a suggestion for a thing.

Difference between constructive criticism, and hatespooge.

[Mitara Newelle]

I have RP'd with Mit in the past and will likely RP Mit in the future... so... yeah.

 

[Jennifer Starfall]

This is EVE....of course we're all trying to win. Some of us are just more gracious losers than others. RP is like PVP in that regard. It's a constant flow of winning and losing just instead of ships it arguments or drinking contests, mud wrestling...whatever it happens to be but ultimately someone wins and someone loses.

I have to disagree with there being winners and losers. Good RP requires cooperation. Not a script mind you, but cooperation. And with cooperation, everyone wins. RP that's nothing but PVP in a different medium is more like teenagers cutting each other down in a D&D game to be the one to get the Head of Vecna or young children yelling "Bang! I shot you! You're dead!" "No, I'm not!".

And I think this is where the frustration I mentioned above is coming from. We have several characters and groups that regularly come into conflict/opposition with each other, but it winds up devolving into the "Bang! I shot you!" mentality. So everyone defends their position/stance, doesn't give ground and nothing changes. Don't get me wrong, I can see why it happens (I do it sometimes, too): people put a lot of effort and time into their characters and organizations and feel a sense of investment in them, and who are you to come along and demand my character change to suit yours? There doesn't ever seem to be a moment where someone stops and ask themselves "This might be an interesting way to go with this, how can I make this work for my character?"

But beyond that, I think the RP community is there. I came back to it after 5 years, and I'm finding people to interact with, some expected, some have been surprises.

[Lyn Farel]

I personally claim to at least complain a bit at times for that I have been a very proactive RPer and content creator over my Eve years, and so do not feel especially compelled to always have a backup project of mine to actually be allowed to complain.

For what it's worth, my things rarely met any success, so I stopped bothering and came back to more mundane individual to individual RP stories, and character focused RP, which is ten times better to my eyes anyway.

Anyway, what Ael said is a good analysis of the situation imo. There is also the vet syndrome I think, like myself at the very least, that used to be in a lot of various circles, circles that disappeared and dissolved, while finding nothing new and being left kinda excluded (I don't like the word, it's not like people exclude you, it's just that you get excluded yourself by the situation). So eventually, yeah, RP seems completely barren that way, and there is a total misunderstanding resulting of that between these people and the people in the good circles.

The problem is not new, I have seen it years ago already, and when you dare say that the RP scene seems a bit... empty, you get stoned by people that have nothing better to say that "just move your ass and do something". If it was so easy, you bet a lot of people would do it. I know I did, and I also know it never met any success, be it inspace stuff, or RP channels. vOv

The issue is not so much an absence of GMs and content generators, but an absence of numbers and half of the 4 main faction being left without any solid RP group or just without anyone except a few (looking at Gallente for which it has always been so past Acheron's fall in 2006, and Minmatar more recently in the 2 last years). When I say numbers, maybe that's because i'm an elitist prick, which is probable. I don't consider most of the Summit population and chatter being worthy of RP with, it's like playing tea parties with children.

That being said, there is still a few groups accessible here and there and moving one's ass to go RP with them is still something doable 

Eventually it makes me think heavily of the trite issue of people getting along with a lot, and people not really finding what they are looking for and complaining about it.


EDIT : ah, and I was going to forget another thing, which is alt sprees. It's certainly not the first time that this will be brought up either (like most of that thread anyway, it's just a new version of the same old song)... It is natural for people to want to try something new from time to time and 'reroll', and play on a new char that will be the whim of the moment. It's the only way to breathe and get a bit of fresh air to try something else, something new. It's also maybe something that keeps a lot of people playing instead of just quitting.

It's also a plague, because 1) so many alts like it's alt-ception /o\ ; 2) It's inherent to Eve (lol) ; 3) It makes it harder to actually start something engaging and long lasting since because of their very nature, 80% of those alts are done out of a whim that is already assumed not to last at the beginning. So a lot of people are reluctant to start RP with those, myself included, and it also ruins the chances for more serious long lasting alts that will have to wait a lot before getting past the few first months to be seen and considered as 'stable and promising RP'.

And, for the record, I hope people aren't just trying to 'win'? RP is ultimately cooperative. Even when you're fighting it's for the gud fites. If anything you want to arrange for material with the enemy, if there's nothing forthcoming. We've done it, it's great. When people refuse, it's pretty disappointing. We just want to play the game after all.  \o.o / You might stand to lose a little bit, but ultimately, everyone wins.

Believe me, a lot are. It's inherent to Eve. People play to win, and RP is no exception.

Ember post above is a clear example of that, and I diametrically disagree with that vision of RP, which I find toxic OOCly for various reasons that have already been exposed in that thread. That's why the community is fractured, yes, like in any game or MMO with a RP community, always for different but similar reasons. That's why you usually play with your friends and people that think alike.

That's also why it fits so very poorly to Eve where you can't just make your own imaginary sandcastle in your own corner, since everything is interconnected and fair play. It forces people to play together, even if they do not want to. Especially when only one side doesn't want to. If you have a strong disagreement on what RP should be, or with someone that you just can't bear, nothing prevents him to come and mess with you ICly, and that will be done in the frame of the game where no matter what you claim, it will have happened.

And that's what's beautiful and ugly with Eve at the same time.

[Ember Vykos]

I have to disagree with there being winners and losers. Good RP requires cooperation. Not a script mind you, but cooperation. And with cooperation, everyone wins. RP that's nothing but PVP in a different medium is more like teenagers cutting each other down in a D&D game to be the one to get the Head of Vecna or young children yelling "Bang! I shot you! You're dead!" "No, I'm not!".

Still there are winners and losers. Sure in an OOC fashion I would think most are happy with good quality RP to be had, but we'll say 7 times out of 10 ICly there is a winner and a loser of whatever event may have happened. Our characters are an extension of ourselves and therefore I think most people want their character to 'win.' That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Most of the community are at least on friendly terms regardless of faction loyalties and whatever else our characters may have, and that's what allows us to have our characters win and lose with one another. That post was meant to be a bit tongue and cheek and not entirely serious, but guess it needed some clarification. As players and roleplayers within the community we all win, even if someones character has to lose.

EDIT : ah, and I was going to forget another thing, which is alt sprees. It's certainly not the first time that this will be brought up either (like most of that thread anyway, it's just a new version of the same old song)... It is natural for people to want to try something new from time to time and 'reroll', and play on a new char that will be the whim of the moment. It's the only way to breathe and get a bit of fresh air to try something else, something new. It's also maybe something that keeps a lot of people playing instead of just quitting.

It's also a plague, because 1) so many alts like it's alt-ception /o\ ; 2) It's inherent to Eve (lol) ; 3) It makes it harder to actually start something engaging and long lasting since because of their very nature, 80% of those alts are done out of a whim that is already assumed not to last at the beginning. So a lot of people are reluctant to start RP with those, myself included, and it also ruins the chances for more serious long lasting alts that will have to wait a lot before getting past the few first months to be seen and considered as 'stable and promising RP'.

Don't even get me started...I loathe most alts. I know theyre an inherent part of EVE, and they can even server purposes in RP. I just hate the straw men that develop on IGS, and the people that have fifteyleven alts so they can be in all the circles or attention whore. I would much rather it be limited or at least disclosed some way, but that'll probably never happen.

[Jace]

Fun is dumb.

[Aedre Lafisques]

I have to disagree with there being winners and losers. Good RP requires cooperation. Not a script mind you, but cooperation. And with cooperation, everyone wins. RP that's nothing but PVP in a different medium is more like teenagers cutting each other down in a D&D game to be the one to get the Head of Vecna or young children yelling "Bang! I shot you! You're dead!" "No, I'm not!".

Still there are winners and losers. Sure in an OOC fashion I would think most are happy with good quality RP to be had, but we'll say 7 times out of 10 ICly there is a winner and a loser of whatever event may have happened. Our characters are an extension of ourselves and therefore I think most people want their character to 'win.' That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Most of the community are at least on friendly terms regardless of faction loyalties and whatever else our characters may have, and that's what allows us to have our characters win and lose with one another. That post was meant to be a bit tongue and cheek and not entirely serious, but guess it needed some clarification. As players and roleplayers within the community we all win, even if someones character has to lose.

EDIT : ah, and I was going to forget another thing, which is alt sprees. It's certainly not the first time that this will be brought up either (like most of that thread anyway, it's just a new version of the same old song)... It is natural for people to want to try something new from time to time and 'reroll', and play on a new char that will be the whim of the moment. It's the only way to breathe and get a bit of fresh air to try something else, something new. It's also maybe something that keeps a lot of people playing instead of just quitting.

It's also a plague, because 1) so many alts like it's alt-ception /o\ ; 2) It's inherent to Eve (lol) ; 3) It makes it harder to actually start something engaging and long lasting since because of their very nature, 80% of those alts are done out of a whim that is already assumed not to last at the beginning. So a lot of people are reluctant to start RP with those, myself included, and it also ruins the chances for more serious long lasting alts that will have to wait a lot before getting past the few first months to be seen and considered as 'stable and promising RP'.

Don't even get me started...I loathe most alts. I know theyre an inherent part of EVE, and they can even server purposes in RP. I just hate the straw men that develop on IGS, and the people that have fifteyleven alts so they can be in all the circles or attention whore. I would much rather it be limited or at least disclosed some way, but that'll probably never happen.

Yeah, I want to elaborate too that I'm not wimpy teetotaler, I like the idea that we can knock around in IC. I think that's great. Heck, I built my character this way because I didn't want the disconnect. If you come to mess with Aedre, he'll probably lose. For now.

You know what was said even in faction warfare in PvP circles as we were winning the thing last summer? That it was a terrible idea and we were going to regret doing it. We did it anyway, but I could appreciate the acknowledgement that we just wanted the badge for it but at least understood it wasn't a constructive thing to actually do to the other players.

I think you have to weigh what the game gives you for winning (which isn't much actually, we were more hoping to get the attention of the developers with it) and what you get for cooperating about the whole thing - OOCly, of course! Even non-rpers don't want to sound like they're being nice to the 'enemy'. :p 

Of course people are going to win and lose encounters! That's not really what I mean, I'm totally fine with that, despite my tone. Maybe it's the PvPer culture in me now, but think having more encounters is good. Sometimes that has to be arranged. Not scripted though - that just makes me cringe :j

It's why you type GF in local.  It's not supposed to be snide! :x  It's the non-rper's OOC acknowledgement that we had fun fighting and would like to again, win or lose.

[Anskek]

If you come to mess with Aedre, he'll probably lose. For now.

TIL ANSLO-SENPAI COMES AND KICKS THE ASS OF WHOEVER MESSED WITH AEDRE

[John Revenent]

Go out, the world is yours to mold! That said the I-RED team of liberal think tank specialists are working hard to keep things spiced up (at the expense of our image and yes killboard stats) for the glorious RP!

Also I miss Simca. 

[Mizhara]

The counter point, and there is some amount of evidence of it on this forum, is that on several occasions someone does suggest doing something, and then a bunch of people pile on with statements like:
"this isn't something that any of my characters would participate in" - then why did you post ?

....

which only creates the impression of people wanting to stop others from RPing, for OOC reasons.

No Fun Allowed.

I just have to stick my head in here and say absolutely not.

When I say "this isn't something any of my characters would go to", I mean "...but it looks interesting so I'm making a post in your thread so you know that I've noticed and am supporting you." Very often I will say as much as well.

Really, if I think something is that dumb, I'll either try to pick it apart in a logical pattern or just not say anything to avoid breaking Backstage rules.

This. When I make a post about how this does not suit my characters or something, it simply means the effort is acknowledged and that it has potential, but I can't contribute. Dismissal or rejection of something is quite recognizable as such.

[Aedre Lafisques]

If you come to mess with Aedre, he'll probably lose. For now.

TIL ANSLO-SENPAI COMES AND KICKS THE ASS OF WHOEVER MESSED WITH AEDRE

herrmahgerd Anslo Noticed Me  /n////n\ kweeee~

[Ember Vykos]

Go out, the world is yours to mold! That said the I-RED team of liberal think tank specialists are working hard to keep things spiced up (at the expense of our image and yes killboard stats) for the glorious RP!

Also I miss Simca. 

She misses John too....John.
Also I miss you. 

[Ava Starfire]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows my feeling on this.

I have tried, numerous times, to get something going in MinnyLand; the first time we actually had some success, but I was not selective enough in recruitment. It imploded. RIP, TRA.

The second time, I was much more selective, not wishing to repeat no 1, aaand... no one joined, save a couple people who followed me from Attempt No 1; sure, a few people said "I'll throw an alt in there", but really, alts don't do much. The creators seldom if ever played them, and Skadi's Call died before it was born.

I stayed with Gradient due to friendships i had made there, and due to a (usually) safe, friendly environment, even if it was becoming more and more a group of solo players who chatted in corp chat once in a while. I now find myself without this safety net, I looked around, and Minmatar as a faction is dead; minny loyalist RP? Fucking nonexistent.

You can say all you want about "make your own RP", but funny thing about tribes? They tend to be, you know... tribes. They don't work well with one or two people, or an alt who never sees the light of day. I blame a combination of CCP, exclusivist attitudes from the minny community which I am partly to blame for, the overall poor state of minny ships, and simple changes in the tides. There is no one "reason" that the Minny faction died; it wasnt one fatal wound. It was a series of tiny cuts.