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[V. Gesakaarin]

So according to the CFU article here:

"As Federation investigators began to get closer and closer to discovering the secret Caldari colonies, the six secessionist megacorporations colluded to launch a multi-pronged financial assault on Caldari Funds Unlimited."

There were only six original Megacorps that created the CEP, which means for there now to be Eight, two others had to get on the CEP later on in the existence of the State. The question for me then becomes, what are the criteria and process to have a seat on the CEP?

Is it direct sponsorship from current CEP members? Does the CBT dictate if a corporation is legally a, "Megacorporation" to become a CEP member? Something else altogether?

[Ollie]

I like the idea of a CP2020/Shadowrun-esque setup where the megacorps and smaller corporations within megacorps are in constant competition seeking to undermine the profits and business interests of their rivals all with the intention of either maintaining/increasing their status within the CEP or moving up to a position potentially at the expense of some less efficient competitor.

I don't think there's any lore that supports that view and I don't know how well it actually fits into any Caldari 'State First'-type groupthink. I don't put it into play or expect it of others, just a purely personal way I - as a player - like to think about it.

[Jace]

There were six "secessionist megacorporations". The other two were already in existence, just not secessionist at the time. As far as recorded history goes, there have been eight - we thus have no idea what it would take it make a ninth. It is reasonable to consider it impossible.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I ran a short story arc that was publicly posted on the IGS about this, actually. I checked with Falcon and he gave me a thumbs up to go ahead and do it (though assured me he and CCP will not validate any of it).

What I had imagined was that the CEP is actually much much larger than we tend to think it is. The Big Eight are the major decision makers, but there are also CEOs of smaller corporations present at the Panel. Not all of them will get a seat at the fancy round table, likely. Or maybe it's a speaking chamber more like the Senate or Parliament. At any rate, I imagined that assuming you fill certain criteria, you can get a seat as CEO of a State corporation - even if you're not directly under the Big Eight.

Kat's corporation "Oniseki Holdings" applied to become a valid State corporation and get a seat. Eventually they were approved, and were renamed "Oniseki Corporation", but the price she had to pay was that Katrina had to relinquish her chair as CEO and become a majority shareholder only. I figured CEP and CCP would not want a capsuleer sitting on the CEP. Of course... none of this is anything anybody has to recognize IC or OOC... but it was fun for me to do. It'a also one of the reasons you rarely see her talking about it these days, since she no longer controls it.

Anyways...

I think there may be varying levels of the CEP. There may be the primary "Big Panel" comprised of the eight CEOs of the megacorps, who get all the real power of the CEP and media attention. Then you have a "Small Panel", perhaps comprised of non-mega CEOs mega-subsidiary CEOs. Of course, the larger and more powerful one of the Big 8 is, the more influence and direct power they will have over these independents. It may be a very real political game where the battle is over how many Small Panel seats the Big Panel can control and/or influence. Think of it as top-down lobbying and bribes.

Lai Dai and CBD might be fighting over a legislative bill. Lai Dai has far more money than CBD, but CBD has more subsidiaries sitting on the Small Panel. You can imagine a bitter political war being fought between the two as CBD tries to keep its own Small CEOs voting in favor of its preferences, while Lai Dai is trying to pay them off to vote temporarily in their favor. The battle might extend further as CBD and Lai Dai both try to influence their allies and other parties to vote for them as well.

Big Panel - the Big 8 CEOs who get all the media coverage and have the real deciding power.
Small Panel - All the other independent CEOs who are likely all paid off, controlled, and juggled by the Big 8.

[Lyn Farel]

Interesting, but in that case what would be the point to appoint CEO of subsidiaries to the CEP, since everything in the State is controlled by the eight megas no ? Independent corps exist ?

[V. Gesakaarin]

There were six "secessionist megacorporations". The other two were already in existence, just not secessionist at the time. As far as recorded history goes, there have been eight - we thus have no idea what it would take it make a ninth. It is reasonable to consider it impossible.

Lai Dai and NOH don't have any evidence that they pre-existed the formation of the State. Then there's the Morning of Reasoning where it's implied that the Megacorp. leaders that didn't follow the secession were made to commit ritual suicide.

To be honest, I get the feeling that Lai Dai and NOH were probably something more like a Kaalakiota research subsidiary and SuVee entertainment division that were raised to CEP status in the attempts to get more votes/power on the CEP which probably fits into Kat's concept of there being continuous political wrangling behind the scenes.

[Jace]

There were six "secessionist megacorporations". The other two were already in existence, just not secessionist at the time. As far as recorded history goes, there have been eight - we thus have no idea what it would take it make a ninth. It is reasonable to consider it impossible.

Lai Dai and NOH don't have any evidence that they pre-existed the formation of the State. Then there's the Morning of Reasoning where it's implied that the Megacorp. leaders that didn't follow the secession were made to commit ritual suicide.

To be honest, I get the feeling that Lai Dai and NOH were probably something more like a Kaalakiota research subsidiary and SuVee entertainment division that were raised to CEP status in the attempts to get more votes/power on the CEP which probably fits into Kat's concept of there being continuous political wrangling behind the scenes.

Yes, it is implied the megacorp leaders that didn't follow. Meaning, they were already megacorps and had CEOs. With something as big as the big eight, there needs to be evidence they didn't exist in order to assume two of them weren't alongside the rest. Instead, we have implications they did and no evidence they didn't.

[Vic Van Meter]

So which one of them is Wuxing?

[V. Gesakaarin]

There were six "secessionist megacorporations". The other two were already in existence, just not secessionist at the time. As far as recorded history goes, there have been eight - we thus have no idea what it would take it make a ninth. It is reasonable to consider it impossible.

Lai Dai and NOH don't have any evidence that they pre-existed the formation of the State. Then there's the Morning of Reasoning where it's implied that the Megacorp. leaders that didn't follow the secession were made to commit ritual suicide.

To be honest, I get the feeling that Lai Dai and NOH were probably something more like a Kaalakiota research subsidiary and SuVee entertainment division that were raised to CEP status in the attempts to get more votes/power on the CEP which probably fits into Kat's concept of there being continuous political wrangling behind the scenes.

Yes, it is implied the megacorp leaders that didn't follow. Meaning, they were already megacorps and had CEOs. With something as big as the big eight, there needs to be evidence they didn't exist in order to assume two of them weren't alongside the rest. Instead, we have implications they did and no evidence they didn't.

Yes, and only KK, Wiyrkomi, SuVee, Hyasyoda, and Ishukone have evidence they existed prior to the formation of the State.

[Jace]

You misread me. For something as fundamental as the megas, we need evidence they didn't exist prior. Absence of their mention is certainly not enough to run with the assumption that they didn't, especially with how much PF ignores several of them. A bit of PF merely mentioning that only six were secessionist at the time does not imply the other two didn't exist.

[V. Gesakaarin]

You misread me. For something as fundamental as the megas, we need evidence they didn't exist prior. Absence of their mention is certainly not enough to run with the assumption that they didn't, especially with how much PF ignores several of them. A bit of PF merely mentioning that only six were secessionist at the time does not imply the other two didn't exist.

Think of it is this way, there were six then there eight. This means there has to be a process or criteria at least to get on the CEP. For example, what's the difference between say Perkone or Hyasyoda that one is on the CEP and one is not?

[Jace]

No, there wasn't six then eight. There is no reason to assume it started with six. All the PF says is that there were six secessionist ones, not that there was six total. It was specifically talking about the secessionist ones, not all of them. If it was talking about all of them, it wouldn't have specified "secessionist". The implication is that six of the eight were secessionist, and forced the other two to follow suit. Not that it originated with six.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Veik is arguing on the assumption (which I share) that the secessionists either left-behind or subsumed the loyalists.

[Jace]

Perhaps I am forgetting some PF, but I fail to see where that assumption comes from. If I am missing something, I am all for being pointed to it. The original quote certainly does not imply that.

[V. Gesakaarin]

No, there wasn't six then eight. There is no reason to assume it started with six. All the PF says is that there were six secessionist ones, not that there was six total. It was specifically talking about the secessionist ones, not all of them. If it was talking about all of them, it wouldn't have specified "secessionist". The implication is that six of the eight were secessionist, and forced the other two to follow suit. Not that it originated with six.

Then how could they have "forced" another two Megas by giving them a position on the CEP instead of doing what they did to the others that didn't by making their executives commit suicide and then taking over their companies? The only way that would work would be if positions on the CEP were intended to be incentive during the Morning of Reasoning.

That's still as much supposition as any other regarding how the CEP came to have Eight members, nor does it explain the process to becoming a member, nor more importantly how it maintains legitimacy, power and authority over the State.