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[Synthia]

Well, it's either a lack of fact-checking, or a deliberate change.

Both have the result of denying players of a substantial element of history to RP with/about.

Federation players are denied the opportunity to have serious doubts about foreign policy (bankrolling a genocide fleet)
Caldari players are denied the opportunity to have doubts about Otro Gariushi and Ishukone (portrayed as a saint by the novels, yet designed a genocide weapon system)
Minmatar players are denied the opportunity to ask questions such as "how much is too much", and "Have we become the monsters?"
Amarr players are denied the opportunity to argue about appeasement of monsters, crushing the terrorists, etc. etc.

So. vOv.

The Elder Fleet actions now being the Republic's responsibility is something though. Undeniably it's all on Shakor's head now.

[Lyn Farel]

The bit when the Elder fleet lifted the Starkmanir from Mandate space, was OK. That made sense. The attacks on the Throne worlds... less so.
Like, during D-Day, having the Airborne forces land on Berlin, and being amazed when it doesn't work.

Uh, well lifting the whole Starkmanir survivors in less than a day before Amarrian counter attack ? Sounds even more stretched to me than the rest.

- How do they know who is a Starkmanir ? I can already see the Elders/thukkers showing up, shooting the few planetary defenses and stuff, and then politely asking "Who is Starkmanir there ?"
- Supposing than they know precisely how to tell who is Starkmanir, how the hell do you uplift billions of scattered Starkmanir all across Halturzan in less than a day ? It took them a lot of hours to do that at Seylin with barely 10% of the population of a... small colonial planetoid ? O_o

[Louella Dougans]

The bit when the Elder fleet lifted the Starkmanir from Mandate space, was OK. That made sense. The attacks on the Throne worlds... less so.
Like, during D-Day, having the Airborne forces land on Berlin, and being amazed when it doesn't work.

Uh, well lifting the whole Starkmanir survivors in less than a day before Amarrian counter attack ? Sounds even more stretched to me than the rest.

- How do they know who is a Starkmanir ? I can already see the Elders/thukkers showing up, shooting the few planetary defenses and stuff, and then politely asking "Who is Starkmanir there ?"
- Supposing than they know precisely how to tell who is Starkmanir, how the hell do you uplift billions of scattered Starkmanir all across Halturzan in less than a day ? It took them a lot of hours to do that at Seylin with barely 10% of the population of a... small colonial planetoid ? O_o

I was more meaning, that a massive incursion into Ammatar space, a lightning raid to retrieve Starkmanir populations, is something that seems reasonable, and with a fair chance of success. And without too much in the way of political consequence.

Throwing things at the Throne worlds, is a gesture of foolishness, that only wasted the forces sent. Much like Colelie though, I suppose. 
It's like, you see a wasp's nest in the garden, next to your apple tree. You've already picked the apples, but then you go and poke the wasp's nest. WHY!?!?

The Ammatar Fleet at the time, was not part of the Imperial Navy, and would not have had quite the same support.

The Who is Starkmanir thing, seems to have been dealt with, because Sisters of EVE elements had identified them all some weeks/months beforehand.

Dunno about numbers lifted though, I guess there was a lot of shuttles on the task force the Elders sent.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Caldari players are denied the opportunity to have doubts about Otro Gariushi and Ishukone (portrayed as a saint by the novels, yet designed a genocide weapon system)

Why are weapons of mass destruction always right away labeled as 'genocidal'? The weapons aren't made to kill a specific race or ethnicity. <,<

[Esna Pitoojee]

They key assumption here is that Insorum used was a (lethal) bioweapon to non-Vitoc-addicts. I think that assumption is incorrect.

From the Insorum item description:

"Insorum (Insorzapine bisulfate) is a reactive mutagen binder, a compound whose active chemical responds dynamically to mutagens in the body. This gives it tremendous healing properties for those afflicted with specific diseases, but, it is believed, also makes it an extremely dangerous genetic toxin for those in otherwise good health."

I believe this was also mentioned in a couple of news articles, but unfortunately CCP's new news archive is an utter mess, with articles seemingly out of order, untagged for any easy searching, or just plain missing.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I'm quite sure it was in one of them, but yah, news articles are a mess and I can confirm that some went missing entirely.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Let me start off by saying that anyone who thinks Otro Gariushi was a saint was not paying attention. Assume he was acting out of his own self-interest; building up a supply of weapons to deal with the Amarr Empire's greatest weakness does not mean he wanted to help the Minmatar, it means he wanted to have a leg up on the Amarr. Note that since TEA, the Amarr have still been in a better position than the Caldari generally, even after the Amarr suffered what must have been heavy losses in the Elder War.

Of course, no one actually knows where the Elder Fleet got its ships (though I suspect most major intelligence agencies have a very good guess at this point), and they don't necessarily know where the Insorum came from either. Note that a sample of Insorum was obtained during the Hnolku arc by Ushra'Khan, a radical Minmatar organization which had no love for Midular and advocated open warfare against the Amarr...who's to say they didn't provide that to the Elder Fleet and the weapons the Elders used were built in the same place their ships were made?

If Reppola is smart, he's already wiped out any evidence that Insorum was manufactured at scale by Ishukone. The Amarr will have a difficult time proving Ishukone's involvement, and the Amarr still need the Caldari as a bulwark against the Federation and Republic.

As far as the Federation's help, the question isn't why is the Amarr Empire pissed at them about the Elder Fleet, but why isn't the Federation more pissed at the Minmatar for blowing their "humanitarian aid" on a massive warfleet. Even if the Federation doesn't know that their specific funds went to fund it, they do know that they gave the Minmatar a fortune and evidently instead of spending trillions on building infrastructure the Minmatar evidently blew it all on a warfleet -- one which smashed CONCORD and paved the way for the greatest Gallente military defeat in a hundred years. If I was Gallente, I would be pretty pissed off about that.

[Katrina Oniseki]

If nobody knows Ishukone made Insorum, then I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

If nobody knows Ishukone made Insorum, then I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

I think everyone knows Ishukone made insorum -- but whether they made the insorum used on the Amarr worlds is something else entirely. And whether you can prove it is an even bigger issue. As I said, if Reppola was smart, he obliterated anything that could trace that back to Ishukone.

I am pretty sure that was never public knowledge, anyway. If it was, Otro's sister was even more stupid than I thought she was.

[Vincent Pryce]

If you read the book, Gariushi had Rogue Drones make the drug and only his seekrit sister knew about this. So technically Ishukone did not make it.

[Anslol]

How are players hypocrites in this when there's no way ICly to know what happened?

[Sepherim]

As far as the Federation's help, the question isn't why is the Amarr Empire pissed at them about the Elder Fleet, but why isn't the Federation more pissed at the Minmatar for blowing their "humanitarian aid" on a massive warfleet. Even if the Federation doesn't know that their specific funds went to fund it, they do know that they gave the Minmatar a fortune and evidently instead of spending trillions on building infrastructure the Minmatar evidently blew it all on a warfleet -- one which smashed CONCORD and paved the way for the greatest Gallente military defeat in a hundred years. If I was Gallente, I would be pretty pissed off about that.

Hadn't seen it that way, but certainly is a very interesting turn on the issue.

[Rok-Yuni]

Regarding insorum.

Insorum (Insorzapine bisulfate) is a reactive mutagen binder, a compound whose active chemical responds dynamically to mutagens in the body. This gives it tremendous healing properties for those afflicted with specific diseases, but, it is believed, also makes it an extremely dangerous genetic toxin for those in otherwise good health.

the fact that it states 'is believed' is an initially telling sign... but continuing, I remember reading about an attack on a facility or planet by the EoM some time ago, in lore that is, where it is claimed that insorum was used... later news regarding the attack did say that it was an engineered variant of insorum that had proved fatal.

On Sarum prime, the leader told his paladins to not shoot down the gas canisters or other insorum dispersal methods, instead telling them to 'fill their lungs with [it]' ... there have yet to be news articles speaking of a huge number of house sarum paladins falling dead from insorum poisoning.

I think that it is safe to assume that the type of insorum created by VILAMO, was engineered specifically to attack and nullify Vitoxin, and that it has no real effect upon others.

after all, the Elders used it on the nefantar too, and not all of them would have been Vitoc dependent.

----------------------------
TL:DR : While Insorum is believed to be fatal, the only reported fatalities came from an insorum variant used as a bio-weapon in the past.

[Lyn Farel]

I don't think it is safe to assume anything at all.

It's just the whole plot that makes little sense. I have stopped scratching my head over inconsistencies with TEA.

It would be just to easy/convenient to make it harmless. Like TonyG-black-and-white-world convenient.

[Rok-Yuni]

I can't currently find the reference to the insorum variant attack in the past, but if i'm remembering correctly it's in the archived newsfeed...

still, let's look at the facts.

Insorum was used across several constellations, in an effort to remove the slave populations.
it was used on both planets and stations.

the attack with the variant bioweapon caused massive and almost immediate casualties.

not one report has surfaced of a planet or station where insorum-based poisoning occurred on a massive scale, or even on a limited scale.

This kind of news is something the Empire would surely have broadcast far and wide, considering the huge amount of bad press they got for using Vitoxin in the first place. Yet still, not a single report...

------------------

As far as I can see, as there have been no reports of massive mutation and death caused by Insorum use in over 5 years, it is definitely safe to assume that there hasn't been massive mutation and death.

while it may seem 'too easy' to make it harmless, there were no definitive statements that claimed it definitely was fatal or even harmful to those not infected with Vitoxin. 'believed to be' does not equate to 'is'
As the only evidence we have to go on is the events of TEA, which are still canon, even if CCP are trying to negate any lasting effects of TonyG's work, the only conclusion that it is logical to come to, is that VILAMO saw the possible problem and, being a drone with purely logical reasoning, managed to nullify the potentially harmful aspects of insorum, creating a version that performed the specific task it was told to design it for.
It was apparent that VILAMO knew that it was to be used to negate Vitoxin, to be used on planets, stations and in armaments, (so it would effect ship crews as well), as it would therefore affect those who were not infected, and some of those would be slaves that were to be repatriated, it makes sense that VILAMO would, to ensure that those slaves did not die from the effects of their rescue, remove the potentially fatal aspect, in effect engineering a retrovirus that only sought out the Vitoxin, and would otherwise be harmless.

I just can't see how it could logically be stated that the insorum used on the planets and stations in question, Kor-Azor prime, Sarum prime, and the entire ammatar mandate included, would have been fatal to the uninfected, simply put, we'd have heard something... from both the Empire, and the Republic.
Consider how many voices would have been raised in either concern or victory, if the vast majority of nefantar suddenly started dropping dead after the repatriation, or if the entire amarrian population of two of the house core-worlds and many other planets and stations had done so?

is it an assumption? yes.
but one based on a massive lack of evidence to the contrary.
Those who would have been dead if you are right, are still alive.