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[orange]

The 2007 thread on 4TH's forum actually lacks -haan, not haani.  However, the use of -haan and -haani only recently became about gender, previously I saw it has how formal the speaker was being.

[Stitcher]

There you go then. Whole thing's officially a clusterfuck that's subject to whatever convention happens to be popular at the moment.

In that case how about this: if we're sticking with the "-i = female" convention, then how about adding an "-e = male" convention? Pronounced like the "ay" in "array".

sibling/sister/brother: an/ani/ane
parent/mother/father: asen/aseni/asene
spouse/wife/husband: arun/aruni/arune
Citizen/female citizen/male citizen: haan/haani/haane.
Friend/female friend (informal)/male friend (informal): suuolo/suuli/suule

Apply to the end of a noun that might realistically have a male or female context. For instance, if you want to inquire "are you doing well?", then "ukaki moittet?" is the correct form when addressing a woman, and "ukake moittet?" when addressing a man. you could also use "ukak moittet" if the other's gender is unknown, but this would be considered rude or insulting.

This could of course lead to unsubtle jokes about Intaki men being effeminate.

It would also give the word "Caldari" a female twist to it, evoking the whole "mother earth"/"mother nature" thing.

I'm just spinning off ideas at 2:30am here, they may not all make sense.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I like it.

[orange]

Oh Dark Thirty ideas...

...best ideas.

[Saede Riordan]

Ooh neat stuff Stitcher, I like it too.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

This seems to be a workable idea. You going to update the primer with it, Stitch? We need to start circulating it as THE defacto standard.

So, mixed-gender groups, or cases where the gender is unknown? Apply the neutral gender suffix. I disagree that it should necessarily be an insulting gesture - except in context.

[Stitcher]

I only meant that the specific example "ukak" would be insulting, because "uka" means "you" in the sense that you're speaking to somebody, which would mean that using the gender-neutral form means you're not paying attention to anything about the person in front of you.

"haan" is perfectly acceptable, and even maybe a mark of respect. Like, you're saying that you consider the other to be a citizen of such good standing that their gender doesn't enter into it.

I'll do what I can to compile and neaten out a newer version of the primer. If people could give suggestions about what they'd like to see added to it and help bash out stuff like conventions and so forth, that would be much appreciated.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

I suggest making a mailing list and inviting Caldari RPers to join it. We're going to need consensus for a working group if this new Primer is not going to enter into warfare with Hoshisuuvi-kirjuun's one.

Certain of us have discussed this sort of thing before, but we also have to avoid making this into the domain of the communities ivory tower types. Napaani has JUST ABOUT reached the sort of penetration in the RP community where you can chuck 'Saisa' and 'Moitte' and 'Rikaato' around without being too worried you're talking to yourself - let's not take something that works after a fashion and fuck it up.

[Stitcher]

sure. I want it to remain recogniseably the same language too. But a large part of the primer is stuff that people drop in to reference but never actually remember, and I feel like we can get away with tidying that up, tweaking the words to conform to the kind of hard-and-fast conventions you would get in a constructed, artificial language.

We're talking small fine-tuning here rather than a gross overhaul.

A mailing list seems like a good idea. How about "Napanii Update Project"?

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Sounds perfect! I'm not saying you're picking this ball up and scribbling your name on it, Stitch, just want to make sure that we don't wind up in a situation where some peeps stick with the old Napaani, citing the update as "Stitcher's Wankery". You know how much this community loves schisms, sometimes.

[Louella Dougans]

There should be a suffix word for:

-(word) : (Literal) One who chokes their ancestors, (figurative) deviant, reprobate, scoundrel, (colloquial) Gallentean

[Lyn Farel]

And a Caldari variant of -desu.

/nodnod

[Saede Riordan]

And a Caldari variant of -desu.

/nodnod

This so much

[Vieve]

There should be a suffix word for:

-(word) : (Literal) One who chokes their ancestors, (figurative) deviant, reprobate, scoundrel, (colloquial) Gallentean

-kuribun/-kuribuni/-kuribune?

[Pieter Tuulinen]

And a Caldari variant of -desu.

/nodnod

-daasuu?