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[Silas Vitalia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RInkbfjS0MQ

Good tour of one of the more RP-oriented ships, the 600i luxury touring explorer.    It's a lounge ship you can also do some exploring with.    I just love the attention to detail, check out the bar and observation deck.   God would have been nice to have this with our eve characters.

[Mizhara]

Lots of cool stuff there. I hope they manage to optimize that game, because it seems like it runs pretty crap even on high end setups.

About that bar thing and Eve characters though... I felt it confirmed to me that set designers in games will never manage to catch up to what the imagination of roleplayers can create in twenty minutes in a text editor. That 'bar' will be the exact same thing across every one of those ship models, and there'll be a very finite upper bound of variation within what the rest of the game will offer in that regard.

Space legs is all well and good but... I don't know, I'll always conjure up vastly more interesting places in my head just from a basic dull location motd in Eve than any modeler/designer will ever put into whatever game we play. I mean, some games will probably be able to do some amazing things, like Cyberpunk 2077 for instance, but they'll be one-offs. They won't be dynamic, redesignable and customizable to any kind of level that can match what a few minutes in the motd editor and /emotes can.

Things like this plops right down into my uncanny valley, where models are just inhuman enough make things feel off, and won't be anywhere near as customizable as a character description and text emotes. And when you combine the two, you get that dissonance between what is clearly there and what demonstrably isn't.

Might of course just be me, but the only games where I really felt immersed in that sort of thing, is where it's singleplayer/scripted as fuck and I'm basically watching a cutscene like the Saint's Row games etc. Vastly customizable character, but let the pros do the animation and interaction, and physical avatars become enjoyable. When you leave it to the player to fiddle with basic emote systems and chat systems etc, it becomes so fucking stilted.

For RP, text based or tabletop remains the best option I feel.

[Samira Kernher]

About that bar thing and Eve characters though... I felt it confirmed to me that set designers in games will never manage to catch up to what the imagination of roleplayers can create in twenty minutes in a text editor. That 'bar' will be the exact same thing across every one of those ship models, and there'll be a very finite upper bound of variation within what the rest of the game will offer in that regard.

See, this is why SWG has yet to be topped. Its fantastic decoration options and later its worldbuilding tools (giving players the ability to spawn basically any game asset wherever they wanted in the world) have yet to be topped by any other game (other games that have included player housing typically use very strict 'placement guidelines' that prevents the creativity of the players from shining). It was basically a 'survival-builder' type of game long before today's proliferation of them.

[Mizhara]

And today would be severely hampered by the fact that current fidelity, modeling, resolutions etc means even the smallest of customization things require a lot of dev time. I mean, look at the customization options there was in Conan Exiles. It was a pretty damn solid set of choices, but even at max level and with everything unlocked, it would still be pretty damn barebones in comparison to what we can imagine in a more freeform medium.

Now try a Cyberpunk setting like Eve. It'd be ridiculously difficult to provide customization that could get anywhere near what we do in text.

[Louella Dougans]

For RP, text based or tabletop remains the best option I feel.

/emote lurks in a shadowy corner of the bar, whose interior architecture was that of a stellated dodecagon, such that there were many shadowy corners for the convenience of the patrons, the vast majority of which enjoyed lurking.

[Mizhara]

There being at least as many shadowy corners as there are channel guests in a perfectly circular brightly lit room is a given.

[Louella Dougans]

There being at least as many shadowy corners as there are channel guests in a perfectly circular brightly lit room is a given.

I think I remember someone lurking in the shadowy corners, of a venue that used gravity manipulation such that the interior space was the inside of a sphere.

[Samira Kernher]

And today would be severely hampered by the fact that current fidelity, modeling, resolutions etc means even the smallest of customization things require a lot of dev time. I mean, look at the customization options there was in Conan Exiles. It was a pretty damn solid set of choices, but even at max level and with everything unlocked, it would still be pretty damn barebones in comparison to what we can imagine in a more freeform medium.

Now try a Cyberpunk setting like Eve. It'd be ridiculously difficult to provide customization that could get anywhere near what we do in text.

Yeah, sadly. Graphic fidelity is nice, but sometimes lower quality but more content and style is superior. In SWG, literally everything had a model, and everything could be dropped and used as direction. Even random crafting intermediary component #4 had a physical model and could be dropped and rotated at will. Leading to things like this, or this, or this. It looked kind of janky, and the graphics are pretty bad by today's standards, but you could do virtually anything if you were creative enough.

Conan Exiles had a serious lack of internal decoration items, and annoyingly restrictive placement rules (though less restrictions than something like LotRO or TOR, and with the ability to remove the restrictions with mods). Its building-construction options were pretty fucking ace though. The insides just were pretty barebones in comparison.

I think I remember someone lurking in the shadowy corners, of a venue that used gravity manipulation such that the interior space was the inside of a sphere.

In a sphere, every part of the wall is a corner!

[Silas Vitalia]

Character customization is going to be quite uh, robust.  Insane amount of options and components for clothing and body mods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4H5k5nfJ4Y

[Silas Vitalia]

As far as 'personalization' goes they are going to have a large planetside personal/corp outpost component, where you build habitat modules and lego them together however you like.  I'm not sure how much you can 'redecorate' but the types you build and what you put in them/configuration will be up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwqK778j1JY

I think that vid is 6-7 months old but covers the basics.  Deep space drug farm? sure! Ore mining and storage? go for it!

[Silas Vitalia]

Exellent quick recap of the new stuff, they are getting mining going which is nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRyIonrWSzo

[Mizhara]

Yeah seen that stuff and it's honestly not impressive at this point. It's all the same 'prefab' stuff you get in any damn "base/settlement" builder these days as far as customization goes. We've had them underwater (seriously, go play Subnautica. It's fucking amazeballs.), we've had them on land (too many games to count by now, and it's a pretty stock feature. Conan Exiles, Ark, Insert Survival Gaem Here, Fallout 4 (this one's even moddable to ridiculous degrees) and so on), we've had them in space (Astroneer, Space Engineers, fucking No Man's Sky of all things etc etc) and the list goes on.

You know what all of these have in common? A sufficiently limited amount of customization options that you very quickly find that damn near every single base/home/whatever made by players are very much the same as any other made by players, with some differences in layout. The same four-five tables, the same four-five chairs, the same four-five lighting fixtures and so on. Truly unique venues like some zero-grav dance club in a sphere, an underwater dome in a sea of luminous semi-animalistic kelp that dances with the light patterns in the dome lounge, etc etc? Nope, we'll never see that.

Not that players are particularly good at thinking up these places anyway, but that's a whole different problem to tackle.

[Silas Vitalia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJgzlnUkrbw

go about 8 min, very encouraging re: piracy

basically they are keeping lawless null type zones, doing high risk vs high reward, similar to eve null being where the lucrative resources are.  So you can pirate the shit out of people who go to null.

Interesting convo re suicide ganking etc. Basically seems all fair game but they'll ding you if you repeatedly gank one specific person, etc.

[Nissui]

Ah, for the days of grinding my title down to Dread Lady, just before Trammel launched.

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[Mizhara]

So you can pirate the shit out of people who go to null.

Will still need a wardec mechanic of sorts or it'll be too easy to just "hide in highsec". You seen anything yet about the ability to just drop in and out of populated servers for safety's sake though? It sounds like it'll be very segregated.