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Author Topic: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander  (Read 131055 times)

Nissui

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #600 on: 01 Jan 2018, 12:37 »

Vertical Slice was pretty neat, I'm very glad to see old man Hamill back in action of late. The score was also enjoyable, suitable for those long stretches of manual piloting through these stark environments. The mix could use a little work though, since it overwhelmed the dialogue in a few places.

The HUD would take some getting used to. More than a couple times, I was looking for telemetry data and either didn't find it or found it in a sub-optimal position. Then again, I'm not a UI designer. Maybe that layout is super-realistic or something.

It's interesting to see the development cycle roll on. 5+ years has more-or-less become the norm for current-gen RPGs of nominal magnitude. I remember hearing a rumor recently that, by the time that Elder Scrolls VI comes out, it will be more than ten years after Skyrim's debut (citation needed). Reading about the budget of Mass Effect Andromeda seems to put the SC budget in-line with projects of that scale, but the problem as I see it is publishers have moved to the games-as-service model and so they expect consumers to give up the $60 'complete experience', instead counting on whales to spend hundreds or many thousands of dollars on a video game. To me, that's insanity, but it isn't my money to spend.

Likely the market has space for the RSI model to work. Seems plausible. I hope that it succeeds for the people who've invested. What I've watched looks very-well made, though I can't speak to the quality of gameplay. As with Elite, it's probably a lot more fun to play than watch, but maybe I'll catch a twitch stream one of these days.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #601 on: 01 Jan 2018, 15:08 »


The HUD would take some getting used to. More than a couple times, I was looking for telemetry data and either didn't find it or found it in a sub-optimal position. Then again, I'm not a UI designer. Maybe that layout is super-realistic or something.

Right, the 3d-radar and a lot of the combat HUD has been sort of terrible for a long time now.  The good news is that they run pretty different HUDs based on ship manufacturer, and there's 7 or 8 different main ship companies in game with different HUD layouts. I'm partial to the Drake Interplanetary HUD, which is a bit more 'no frills.'  They all have different AI voices and 'feels', it's neat.

Here's the current ship matrix, which I hadn't checked in a while and is getting pretty damn huge. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ship-matrix


but the problem as I see it is publishers have moved to the games-as-service model and so they expect consumers to give up the $60 'complete experience', instead counting on whales to spend hundreds or many thousands of dollars on a video game. To me, that's insanity, but it isn't my money to spend.

SC has sort of a 'hybrid' model; you can pay $45 or whatever and just purchase the separate single player game (Squadron 42), think of it as a new single player Wing Commander game.  Separately from this you can purchase entry to the MMO "Star Citizen" which is not going to have a monthly subscription.  One-time entry fee with the ship package of your choice (and budget). You could buy the smallest intro ship and you get full access to the same MMO that the whales spending $500 are getting. 

This is where it gets similar to EVE in that theoretically all items are available for ownership in game with in game currency.  You can start small and work (or steal) your way up to the larger ships.  This is where 'balancing' and ship prices will sink or swim all this though.  The larger ships do not equal 'better' we should say, but much like EVE different ships for different tasks.  Similar to EVE they have a size limit on certain wormholes (like eve FW plexes) between systems, and they use fuel for the fast-travel, so you might have a small ship that is superior for short range dogfighting but won't have the legs to chase after another ship across two systems, or you might have a ship that isn't as nimble in a fight but can travel for days without refueling, etc etc.


Likely the market has space for the RSI model to work. Seems plausible. I hope that it succeeds for the people who've invested. What I've watched looks very-well made, though I can't speak to the quality of gameplay. As with Elite, it's probably a lot more fun to play than watch, but maybe I'll catch a twitch stream one of these days.

This is where I'm not sold yet on everything, the sort of emergent MMO gameplay that this engine and game system promises is heavily, heavily dependent on smart people balancing ships, weapons, etc so that it's not a total mess.  It's all good to theoretically be able to disable larger ships and board them for FPS piracy but if they don't get the balance right for ship HP and speed etc it's a disaster.   

They haven't had time for balancing so it's sort of like this in the test servers right now, some large ships move too quickly or die too fast to make any of that gameplay even worth attempting. The 'emergent' sort of gameplay right now is just nuts though with the release of the planetary surface gameplay and landspeeders and cargo hauling etc in 3.0. 

So we'll see!
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #602 on: 02 Jan 2018, 10:08 »

I'd also point you all to the reddit on this, lots of great screencaps from the 3.0 multiplayer live server

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/







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Ché Biko

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #603 on: 02 Jan 2018, 10:47 »

That last pic made me hope for good things, and... :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH3c1QZzRK4
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #604 on: 02 Jan 2018, 14:37 »

YES!

Also the fact you can take off right there, point at that planet, and go see it, no loading.

They've done a big push lately trying to show more of the 'homesteading' part of the MMO, where you'll be able to fly off and prospect on planets and claim your own little area to build habitat modules and exploit/do with as you please. Mine, farm, build a research station, who knows.  They've got a larger ship called the 'pioneer' (14 player crew) that is specifically for carting around and dropping down these hab modules, pretty neat stuff.  Not to be confused with the dedicated exploration vehicles this is for making a go of it out on some planetoid somewhere...

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16200-Consolidated-Outland-Pioneer



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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #605 on: 26 Jan 2018, 11:48 »

Well, shit.  Almost there, folks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5rXhAJcSeQ&t=
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Mizhara

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #606 on: 29 May 2018, 10:53 »

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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #607 on: 18 Jun 2018, 19:24 »

That's hilarious.

ALSO I saw what looks like they snatched up the Venture and made it the Drake salvager?

I haven't been keeping up with SC lately but only read about it because of the massive amount of forum derp from eve and sc people, good grief.

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Mizhara

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #608 on: 19 Jun 2018, 00:46 »

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the SC development itself (so not buying into that whale farm until it's released and I see what I can get though) but damn their subreddit is a fucking cult. It's Scientology levels of "protect Dear Leader. Crush dissent!" going on there. Criticism is not acceptable.

They have been trying to get /r/eve banned as a 'hate sub' and for brigading. I mean sure, /r/eve hates everything including itself, but there's some very strict definitions of both 'hate sub' and 'brigading' on Reddit, and neither apply at all in this situation.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #609 on: 19 Jun 2018, 13:18 »

I was a frequent poster on the official star citizen forums for a while, until I got a few posts removed and some dev warnings and quickly lost interest.

TLDR many of the star citizen folks are thin-skinned; what would pass for a -mild- "conversation" among eve folks sends them into a fucking quiver of tears and thread reporting.  It's hilarious.   

Basically I was telling them a sizable number of players coming from EVE,  including me, are going to use the fullest extent of the rules to fuck your shit up and pew pew and rob people who do not want to be pew pewed and the tears did flow.   

The carebear brigade has really infested quite a lot of the gameplay design since then and they might be slightly toning down some of the damn reasons some of us want to play the game in the first place :P

Miz, consider one of the cheapest 'starter' packages with a basic ship and that comes with lifetime MMO sub and a copy of the single player game, it's already a pretty decent value even for what's currently released and playable.  Will probably save you a bit of $$ on release.
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Mizhara

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #610 on: 19 Jun 2018, 13:35 »

Roughly a full singleplayer game price for one of those intro packs + the singleplayer campaign, from what I can see. 45 buckaroonies for the equivalent of a Newbie Ship and alpha access, and 20 smackers on top of that for the Squadron Life, Universe and Everything pack. Saw no way to get access to the latter without the former.

I'm not entirely sure it's fair to say it's decent value for an unfinished game that is quite a bit away from release, with a megafuckton of optimization still to do, etc, when all together it's five bucks more than... say the cost of an already released MMO without a sub cost like Guild Wars 2 etc, just to stay within the MMO genre.

It's still a little bit in the 'whale' territory, I feel.

And yeah, it's pretty much the same as the Elite: Dangerous crowd in that regard. It's amazing what these people will consider 'griefing' and how they view people that are just playing the damned game by the rules. Given how they can at any moment drop out of the full-multiplayer-deep-end and into solo or private groups, bypassing literally any possible hostilities at will, and there being damn near zero risk of actual asset loss thanks to 95% insurance on ship+fit, it's mindboggling. Eve'd eat these people up within days.

... then again, after I shot up a single structure in Eve, I'm being called a "bully" and worse Out of Character by several members of the RP crowd and supposedly I'm responsible for these people unsubbing from the game. Also, uninstalling Discord, I hear? I want a killmail for that.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #611 on: 19 Jun 2018, 20:55 »

TLDR many of the star citizen folks are thin-skinned; what would pass for a -mild- "conversation" among eve folks sends them into a fucking quiver of tears and thread reporting.  It's hilarious.   

Basically I was telling them a sizable number of players coming from EVE,  including me, are going to use the fullest extent of the rules to fuck your shit up and pew pew and rob people who do not want to be pew pewed and the tears did flow.   

The carebear brigade has really infested quite a lot of the gameplay design since then and they might be slightly toning down some of the damn reasons some of us want to play the game in the first place :P

It's basically Pirates of the Burning Sea all over again.

Dev quote: "There is no crying in the red circle." The players proceed to cry a lot in the red circle, and the devs relent and listen to whiners and remove non-consensual gameplay, killing PotBS as an EVE-like.
« Last Edit: 19 Jun 2018, 20:57 by Samira Kernher »
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Mizhara

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #612 on: 20 Jun 2018, 14:39 »

I have a sneaking suspicion we'll never actually get an 'Eve-like'. Even Eve's stuffed to the gills with players who'd rather see non-consensual PvP go the way of the Dodo and I suspect the only reason CCP aren't listening is because it's just too entrenched right now. Any new MMO-like isn't going to allow for it, as gaming has changed.

Hell, I've changed. I mean, in Eve I'm all for the horribleness, but in a lot of other games I just aren't that interested in the purer PvP stuff unless it can give a damn good reason for it. In Eve it works, thanks to the way it's integrated into the world by design from the ground up, while in pretty much any other game it feels artificial and "THIS IS THE DESIGNATED PEWPEW PLACE!" or quite simply has no consequence at all besides an infinitesimal repair bill and a few minutes of time lost.

I don't know how well it'd even work in Star Citizen. We'll have to see what kind of consequences death and "respawning" has there, and how well its mechanics are integrated with in-setting realism, consequence and reward.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #613 on: 20 Jun 2018, 20:00 »

SC has talked a big game regarding forms of permadeath and their version of null-sec along the way, and I haven't kept up with how much of that they are walking back.  I think the current version is what we'd call game 'death' (being blasted in space or with a gun) will use up one of several 'lives' for your player (you can respawn in a medbay, etc). This is limited and expensive to replenish. Lose all your 'lives' and that character is indeed permadead, and you can reroll a 'relative' to inherit their stuff.

The one thing I saw which would make me punch my monitor is that they were contemplating walking back how if you stole someone's shit, you couldn't keep it forever, IE 99% of what pirates do.  I think they've landed at a middle ground where you can keep it but it's basically a 'hot' ship and very expensive to duplicate a fake legal transponder and it won't hold up to close examination/security scans in super high sec, etc.

If they maintain the null areas being like eve null then I'm just gonna stay there and it'll be fine. 

My whole, entire point of playing the fucking game is to have a small crew of people interdict your shit, board your shit, kill/capture your crew and ride your shit back to our pirate asteroid base for salvage/sale be home in time for dinner

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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Star Citizen - from the producer of Wing Commander
« Reply #614 on: 20 Jun 2018, 20:01 »

TLDR many of the star citizen folks are thin-skinned; what would pass for a -mild- "conversation" among eve folks sends them into a fucking quiver of tears and thread reporting.  It's hilarious.   

Basically I was telling them a sizable number of players coming from EVE,  including me, are going to use the fullest extent of the rules to fuck your shit up and pew pew and rob people who do not want to be pew pewed and the tears did flow.   

The carebear brigade has really infested quite a lot of the gameplay design since then and they might be slightly toning down some of the damn reasons some of us want to play the game in the first place :P

It's basically Pirates of the Burning Sea all over again.

Dev quote: "There is no crying in the red circle." The players proceed to cry a lot in the red circle, and the devs relent and listen to whiners and remove non-consensual gameplay, killing PotBS as an EVE-like.

I'm so sorry to hear that, I missed that game entirely :(
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