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[Casiella]

No, I'm saying that directly removes gameplay. I understand the advantages that PLEXes can bring to a player or organization, but I don't agree about alts in this particular case. For example, logi alts can still be jammed, and I really do not want this to turn into a discussion of infiltration again.

[scagga]

No, I'm saying that directly removes gameplay. I understand the advantages that PLEXes can bring to a player or organization, but I don't agree about alts in this particular case. For example, logi alts can still be jammed, and I really do not want this to turn into a discussion of infiltration again.

Ok.  How does the removal of gameplay affect you and your experience within the game?  As I said, it is very likely that any aurum item can be bought using isk from an original purchaser.

[Casiella]

Anything that harms the overall gameplay of building stuff directly harms my playstyle. I apologize for not having expressed that more clearly earlier.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

I can understand the anger people have over the possibility that someone could just buy their way into the game with RL money, but when you look at it, isn't that what we already have? Seriously. I could create an account today, buy a bunch of PLEX, convert them to ISK, and go-to. First I'd buy a set of hot implants, to maximize my stats, which would let me train into something like a Tengu relatively rapidly. Then I'd buy a hot shit Tengu (or Bhaalgorn, Avatar, Mach, whatever) with a full set of officer modules. Or I could use that ISK to buy into some business or other. How is that any better than giving someone the ability to do things like buy standings? Honestly? What do they get out of standings, other than the ability to use agents without having to go through the grind working up to L4/5 agents? Sure, having access to Angel Cartel agents allows you to do things like convert LP to Dramiels, but you still have to run the missions.

Everything in this game that actually makes a difference - combat skills, market knowhow, the ability to put together and maintain a powerful organization or soveregn space - take time to do. Buying skills, or standings, or ships, or anything like that can't make up for the fact that the people who actually are making a difference in the game are the people who are putting in the hours.

[Casiella]

Great. Who built that Tengu? Where did those implants and officer modules come from? What about the folks who sell corps with high standings?

[Ken]

The issue isn't just RMT.

• Convenient sidestepping of the CSM on the MT topic
• $99 fee and corporate license for third party tool creators
• Scorpions-from-nothing-Gate
• Lackluster AT9 with a lame final and a big "lol vOv" from CCP
• "Incarna" released with 1/4 of the expected content for v1.0 and reduced in-hangar functionality at that (more clicks to do the same old things)
• Poorly optimized new engine after (apparently) many years of work -- AT LAST, INCARNA! I... I'm sitting on a couch and my avatar is about as well rendered as a Simpsons character
• New recruitment tool that leaves out RP corps
• No flashy 'get in the mood for EVE' Incarna release video or even the faintest attempt at some sort of story progression
• Being literally "shown the door" when turning off the CQ
• Microtransactions after we were told "no microtransactions"
• Absurd pricing scheme for ugly and largely pointless NeX clothing items and at least a few CCP avatars now shown wearing the stupid monocle
• Offical rhetoric left open for MT "creep" to go beyond vanity items
• The candid hyptothetical discussions of MT for faction standings in "Fearless" and the overall tone of the magazine: "Greed is Good"
• CCP Zulu's Friday devblog with non-answers, weird shit like the $1000 jeans reference, and defensive fire directed at unhappy players
• The summary permabanning of some players
• The tone and content of the leaked e-mail from Hilmar to CCP staff
• Content of supposed former employee reviews of their time and experience working for CCP
• Continued silence from the company while their playerbase rages on, which to people who are angry with them over the above things is largely interpreted as indifference and/or incompetence

For me, the choice to cancel resubs finally came down to the Zulu devblog, the e-mail, and the way they've handled this so far in general.  As I've explained in other threads, I feel like CCP is happy to take a stand and very clearly define themselves as the suppliers of a product and we as the consumers who purchase it rather than continue with the happy narrative that we're all part of the same big sandbox.  They're making it clear to me that it's very much their sandbox and they can do what they want with it.  Of course, I'm more than open to having that perception proven wrong, but they're not making motions in that direction at all right now.

Weren't they the ones who said it?

Creation is so precious, and greed so destructive.

Oh, wait.  IIRC, that's what we call "foreshadowing"... 

[Casiella]

I hate to do this, but some of the criticisms are unfair.

AT9 final: that was a player decision, and while of course it was controversial, not everyone hated it. Also, if I understand correctly, they're pondering rules for AT10 to try to combat that. Either way, I can't fault CCP for the whole thing.

Recruitment for RP: acknowledged bug. If that were the biggest bug in Incarna, we'd be shouting from the rooftops.

MTs: while this is my major issue as well, I recognize that they haven't happened yet (for non-vanity items). Your other descriptions on the MT issue are spot-on for me.

Can't wait to shop up to EVE Vegas with a RL monocle, though. 

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Great. Who built that Tengu? Where did those implants and officer modules come from? What about the folks who sell corps with high standings?

That's a good point, and I haven't really thought about it from that point of view. I suppose it's because I'm not in any of those businesses in-game.

[Ken]

I hate to do this, but some of the criticisms are unfair.

AT9 final: that was a player decision, and while of course it was controversial, not everyone hated it. Also, if I understand correctly, they're pondering rules for AT10 to try to combat that. Either way, I can't fault CCP for the whole thing.

Recruitment for RP: acknowledged bug. If that were the biggest bug in Incarna, we'd be shouting from the rooftops.

MTs: while this is my major issue as well, I recognize that they haven't happened yet (for non-vanity items). Your other descriptions on the MT issue are spot-on for me.

Can't wait to shop up to EVE Vegas with a RL monocle, though. 

Sure, and taken in isolation or even just a slightly more spread out schedule these things might be tolerable, but there's a reason people are reacting in significant numbers.  That reason is the proximity of all these events, whether the objections to them are fair criticisms or not.  Personally, if the company's reaction when stuff started boiling over had been faster and more conciliatory (in the eyes of the masses, CCP got caught red handed talking about stuff they told us they wouldn't do) or their pre-release expectation management better executed (read: existent), I wouldn't be adding my name to the list of people voting with their feet/wallets.  Frankly, for a company called "Crowd Control Productions" they're either providing new veracity for the definition for irony or they are in fact uber-masters of social engineering and are executing a skillful transformation/transplantation of their player base to fit a changing business model.

[John Revenent]

Im only upset because I am losing good pilots to this crap 

[Ember Vykos]

Im only upset because I am losing good friends to this crap 

Or at least people I count as friends.

Bolding is to show what I changed to make it my own. 

[Desiderya]

I agree whole-heartedly with you Casiella, the player driven market is holy. But aren't we talking about things that simply haven't happened yet, nor are they a definite "wil happen in the next patch"?

[Casiella]

Understood, but if Hilmar says he will listen to what we do, not what we say, then I don't know what other way to make my voice heard.

[Half Cocked Jack]

I see you point but disagree, Casiella. There are two sides of any transaction. The issue is who built the PLEX (nobody). If you damn MT, then PLEX is half-damned. And it still doesn't change the fact that having an alt in the first place is a paid for advantage in game. You can jam the logi alt, yes, but you either need a buddy or an alt of your own to do so.

[Ken]

Understood, but if Hilmar says he will listen to what we do, not what we say, then I don't know what other way to make my voice heard.