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[Revan Neferis]

All the issues with Incarna and vanity items, mails, ccp internal docs , communications etc etc. Fine. They made a mistake. Bad for business etc, we are all tired to know and dicuss about this.
Now, ccp developed a game we all enjoy. More to the point, is this all ragequit, revolts, ill words, attacks directed at them really helpfull at the moment? I mean come on, they are a business like any other, companies make mistakes, they need to find a balance between profit and customer satisfaction.
Anyone of you here who owns or are responsible for this side of your company or your work knows how delicate this balance can be.
Zulu's blog suck. Heimar's mail suck. no doubt about that.
But answering it with this pathetic forum rage, screaming, throwing rocks and lack of patience is only aggravating the situation.

Perhaps its time for everyone to take a deep breath and allow ccp to breathe too out of the shitstorm. Let them rethink, see what went wrong and give them a chance to restore some sanity in the process.
Or better yet: if you really want to make a point, just dont buy the stuff. No company will support something that isnt giving profit. that's the core of the message when Heilmar says " See what players are doing, not what they are saying "

Time to take a small step back and stop the witchhunt, isnt it? Give them some room to fix the PR mess they made with the gaming industry and us too. Damage is done , putting more fire into it wont help.

Also... igs threads related to incarna issues? really...

[GoGo Yubari]

Disagree.

To me it seems pretty obvious that there is a plan to implement broad and extensive real money transactions into Eve, quite likely to include buying in game effectiveness. This will kill the sandbox such as it exists.

Any sign of compliance will allow this plan to proceed. The only way to go forth is to voice our dissent. Yes, there are lines that should not be crossed, but silence will do us no good.

There are other issues that also require talking about, which under normal circumstances would be causing forum uproar in on themselves, but this issue goes far beyond that normal level of complaining /arguing about game mechanics.

[Seriphyn]

I'd agree that bringing it up IC and on the IGS is a bit though.

[Ember Vykos]

I both agree and disagree.

Voicing our opinions and dislike for what we perceive as their plans is perfectly fine. In fact, if I could enter Jita or Amarr without worrying about the navies and other militia pilots killing me I would totally be there blasting the statue with the other couple thousand people. In game protests are fine. Objective and passionate forums posts are fine, but from what I see most of the EVE playerbase are behaving like children. That doesn't help our case and from my perspective is actually hurting it. What we have to remember is that it is just our perception of their plans and not their actual plans. We do things like this at work all the time with brainstorming sessions about things we could implement or things that are going to be implemented. All they are are discussions they dont mean that you can buy an in game edge just that its an idea to spur a debate not a shitstorm.

[Kemekk]

I'd agree that bringing it up IC and on the IGS is a bit though.

I was going to write up an IC thread about how it affects my character

[Revan Neferis]

To me it seems pretty obvious that there is a plan to implement broad and extensive real money transactions into Eve, quite likely to include buying in game effectiveness. This will kill the sandbox such as it exists.

Any sign of compliance will allow this plan to proceed.

Only sign of compliance that will have any impact on this decision to proceed or not proceed is what happens in game. If you buy their items, if the plan is profitable they will expand. If you ignore and dont buy the items making the business plan unfeasible, they will not proceed.
It's not the screams and tantrums that direct or alter CCP policies, it's cold cash results.

Players scream , players buy, players give profit: plan proceeds.
Players calm down, players dont buy, model dont give profit: they will reconsider.

See the pattern? I think it's perfectly fine that a point is made about being displeased with their policies. But I think it's a childish, non effective way to prove a point.

And yes, IGS threads about such things are minimum bad taste in my opinion. Enough with what Incarna already did to our immersion, making us sit inside disgusting minmatar quarters, telling us that monocles of terrible taste described as " common implants ' are elitist and terrible fashion options. To me, ic this is huge vr nightmare that my character will never acknoledge it.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Business as usual for me... 

[Saede Riordan]

To me it seems pretty obvious that there is a plan to implement broad and extensive real money transactions into Eve, quite likely to include buying in game effectiveness. This will kill the sandbox such as it exists.

Any sign of compliance will allow this plan to proceed.

Only sign of compliance that will have any impact on this decision to proceed or not proceed is what happens in game. If you buy their items, if the plan is profitable they will expand. If you ignore and dont buy the items making the business plan unfeasible, they will not proceed.
It's not the screams and tantrums that direct or alter CCP policies, it's cold cash results.

Players scream , players buy, players give profit: plan proceeds.
Players calm down, players dont buy, model dont give profit: they will reconsider.

Well, some idiots will buy, but honestly, the anger is having a cash impact. As of last tally 2,477 accounts were deactivated since this started. That amounts to roughly 450,000 USD a year. Players are voting with their feet and their wallets. If CCP ignores that. I think we're pretty well and truly fucked.

[Revan Neferis]

Well, some idiots will buy, but honestly, the anger is having a cash impact. As of last tally 2,477 accounts were deactivated since this started. That amounts to roughly 450,000 USD a year. Players are voting with their feet and their wallets. If CCP ignores that. I think we're pretty well and truly fucked.

That data although significant and accurate can only be meaninful if compared against the number of new subscriptions + vanity items selling, which it seems to be covering pretty well the ragequit unsubs out there.

And if you take that into consideration, no, ccp isnt even in the brick to be " fucked " , they are appliying a displeasing business model to the playerbase that against all odds, may work because of well, the playerbase.
You have to be a little carefull when showing numbers. they only make sense into the context implied.

[Louella Dougans]

As if more than 10% of those unsubs will actually follow through with it. Empty gestures.

At least one of the individuals who said they were unsubscribing their account(s), also said they had deleted the client.

They've also said that they had thought about getting a 2nd account soon, prior to this debacle, and were also seen ingame after claiming they'd deleted the client.

So, they were probably not being truthful about the number of accounts they were unsubscribing, and probably did not uninstall client either.

[Louella Dougans]

Players scream , players buy, players give profit: plan proceeds.
Players calm down, players dont buy, model dont give profit: they will reconsider.

Given the thinking expressed by CCP in the past about other things, e.g. Rockets, faction warfare, other things, then this is correct.

To illustrate what I mean: One of the Devs is quoted in the gaming press as saying: "Why should we fix rockets, no-one uses them anyway". Others have said "Not many players use faction warfare, so fixing the issues is a low priority."

So, if people do not buy things, then with that thinking, CCP may get the idea that "Players aren't using the microtransactions" and assign it a low/nonexistant priority for future development.

Confusing logic, but it seems to be what they use.


Unless there's a lot of office politics going on, which may be the case, and microtransactions get pushed anyway. There's not really anything the players can do here. Various high-ups have said "Players don't do game design", so rioting isn't going to achieve much to change those people's minds.

[Revan Neferis]

Players scream , players buy, players give profit: plan proceeds.
Players calm down, players dont buy, model dont give profit: they will reconsider.

Given the thinking expressed by CCP in the past about other things, e.g. Rockets, faction warfare, other things, then this is correct.

To illustrate what I mean: One of the Devs is quoted in the gaming press as saying: "Why should we fix rockets, no-one uses them anyway". Others have said "Not many players use faction warfare, so fixing the issues is a low priority."

So, if people do not buy things, then with that thinking, CCP may get the idea that "Players aren't using the microtransactions" and assign it a low/nonexistant priority for future development.

Confusing logic, but it seems to be what they use.


Unless there's a lot of office politics going on, which may be the case, and microtransactions get pushed anyway. There's not really anything the players can do here. Various high-ups have said "Players don't do game design", so rioting isn't going to achieve much to change those people's minds.

Precisely. It's not really confusing logic, it's standard business model.
Very well put Louella.

I believe that at this point the " rioting " is not only having zero impact but also turning against their own interests. ( players )

[Lyn Farel]

All the issues with Incarna and vanity items, mails, ccp internal docs , communications etc etc. Fine. They made a mistake. Bad for business etc, we are all tired to know and dicuss about this.
Now, ccp developed a game we all enjoy. More to the point, is this all ragequit, revolts, ill words, attacks directed at them really helpfull at the moment? I mean come on, they are a business like any other, companies make mistakes, they need to find a balance between profit and customer satisfaction.
Anyone of you here who owns or are responsible for this side of your company or your work knows how delicate this balance can be.
Zulu's blog suck. Heimar's mail suck. no doubt about that.
But answering it with this pathetic forum rage, screaming, throwing rocks and lack of patience is only aggravating the situation.

Definitly. I am not sure you adress to the good persons here to be honest. I am not sure the backstage community is behind all the shirtstorm of the 1398479344 pages of hate that are plaguing the official forums at the moment.

Perhaps its time for everyone to take a deep breath and allow ccp to breathe too out of the shitstorm. Let them rethink, see what went wrong and give them a chance to restore some sanity in the process.

Was already the case in the past with payable neural remaps, and other similarities. They are not learning this time. It is like if they are flying a blockade runner, litterally.

Or better yet: if you really want to make a point, just dont buy the stuff. No company will support something that isnt giving profit. that's the core of the message when Heilmar says " See what players are doing, not what they are saying "

Definitly, this is why I am thinking to stop my subscription. IRL if I am not pleased by something done by a company that i consider definitly wrong, say for example, an airlines company, I will also stop using their services, not only stop buying their goodies.

In any case, if I don't buy their virtual goods, some other people will and that will validate something I do not want to see ingame. So I am thinking to leave instead.

[Revan Neferis]

Definitly. I am not sure you adress to the good persons here to be honest. I am not sure the backstage community is behind all the shirtstorm of the 1398479344 pages of hate that are plaguing the official forums at the moment.

Neither this was implied on my post. As per backstage community, or X communit, I never consider such definitions, To me you are, we are eve players. Some of you are part of the 1398479344 shitstorm, some are not. Not the point here.

Definitly, this is why I am thinking to stop my subscription. IRL if I am not pleased by something done by a company that i consider definitly wrong, say for example, an airlines company, I will also stop using their services, not only stop buying their goodies.

In any case, if I don't buy their virtual goods, some other people will and that will validate something I do not want to see ingame. So I am thinking to leave instead.

If the product displeases you as much, you should. Again, as you said, no one is obliged to give money and support a product they dont endorse.
Will people buy virtual goods? Obviously they will. I would if there was anything worth it, which unfortunately isnt the case. So I'm afraid that there is little that those displeased with the system can do to avoid the new direction other than depriving themselves of playing eve online.

ces't la vie.

[Half Cocked Jack]

I "unsubscribed" after the effective removal of faction standings, but it hardly matters since I'm already paid up till next summer. In the meantime, I'm just watching...still a bit uncertain what to do since my standings-based objectives have been rendered all but pointless and CCP seems to be abandoning any cohesive support of immersive roleplay. The only way I can conceive to make CQ make any sense whatsoever is to pretend that little thingy at the bottom of the staircase is my personal shuttle between my space hotel and my Star Trek bridge.

But I am not convinced that what CCP is doing with the NEX isn't in the best interest of New Eden. The sandbox has long been too full of crap to comfortably dig in. Every alt account is a cat turd that violates the principles of consequence-based gameplay. Between the bots, the alts, and the metagaming for which EVE has become famous, any notion that New Eden is a self-contained but open-ended realistic world simulation is delusional. The biggest and most potent argument being used against CCP is that the NEX cuts out all of the middle-men: the manufacturers, researchers, miners, etc. who make up the engine of New Eden. Never mind that anyone who uses alts to mine, haul minerals, research bpos, build, move things in and out of nullsec, scout, etc. has already done exactly that!

Still, being all but told that I am little more than a golden egg to be wrung for every last penny I'm willing to choke up does cook my goats. Am I unsatisfied with CCP? Yes. Am I doubtful about EVE's future? Yes. Have I said my piece to them? Yes. But I will not actively campaign to destroy the game or the company. First of all, it is tacky. Secondly, it benefits absolutely nobody. Thirdly, there are still good people who enjoy this game and work at CCP who don't deserve buckets of shit being flung at them.¹

As things currently stand, it is almost like CCP and the bitter playerbase are fighting to see who can destroy EVE first. CCP, by all indications, desires to develop it into a thing only remotely recognizable to what it has been in the past. The playerbase, on the other hand, wants to turn back the clock and is willing to smear CCP/EVE up one end of the gaming news community and down the other to get their way. Somewhere in the middle is the rational compromise that will probably end up happening. I await to see what that is.

¹ I've been victim of personal administrative correspondence being made public before (from the perspective of a university forum admin team). I know how it feels and how easily something intended as benign can turn into a double-edged knife pointed straight at your jugular. It sucks.