While I don't have much of a personal stake in this discussion, I feel like chiming in for several reasons.No one has ever said otherwise.
The first is simply this: Yes, I personally feel that moderators can and should be refraining from insults and abusive language when they are dealing with someone infringing on forum rules - even if this someone does so in an obnoxious way. There definitely is room for improvement in that regard on this forums.
been said is that, in the instances it has taken place, it has not been so egregious that action need be taken. That has been the opinion of the team in every
such instance that Lyn has "gone to forum war" about so far. I, however, have had several of my own posts moderated with no reports having been generated whatsoever. So one cannot even say that nobody on the Mod Team ever gets
The second reason is how Lyn is dealt with here, especially by you, Havohej.
I'll be the spokesperson, sure.
At first you claim that he's speaking only his own opinion, and that you won't change anything for one person alone. That's basically challenging him to give evidence that it's not just his opinion: Once he does so you are ready to charge him with violation of Backstage's Rule 7.
a violation of Rule 7. One that I refrained from moderating. Never let it be said that Caesar is without mercy.
Given that he prior to that mentioned private convos in which he had been told just that, I can't see what he should've done: Either you dismiss his point because you never saw those convos - or you call him out for a rule violation. One can only be sorry for Lyn that he fell for your bait, there.
, such as it is, is dismissed anyway. Firstly, because it's a dead bloody horse that he's beaten a many several time and gotten a singular response each time. Secondly, because what he should do
is urge these poor put-upon souls to step forth about how they were oh-so-mistreated by Big Bad Mr. Havo and his Gang of Big Bad Moderation Thugs. Which, judging by the examples of complaints that he put forth, not a one
has a valid argument against any Moderation Action which took place on this Forum - which probably explains why the mob with torches and pitchforks has pretty much been a Mob of One.
And here the opinion of people plays quite the role - after all if they are of the opinion that they are not comfy with aspects of the moderation we have every reason to believe that they are not comfy with those aspects of moderation.
So, no, in this case it is not a logical fallacy, because the conditions for it to be a fallacy are not fulfilled.
I'm well aware of how the fallacy works, actually, and you are incorrect. Yes, the opinion of the people does play quite the role - it was the opinion of the people early on that settled out how things should or shouldn't be done here. However, if you aim to suggest that this fractious community and its popular opinion can be represented by one self-appointed hero and that this Batman of Backstage's word should be taken as the Gospel Truth as regards All Things Community Opinion... Well, I cannot complete that sentence without committing an abuse, now can I?
Further, we cannot see any such lack of comfort displayed in the use of the forum or lack thereof. In the threads where the actual story and roleplay of EVE are being discussed, things are as they should be. The decrease in traffic has in numerous other threads been attributed to the growing number of avenues for this discussion, most notably Slack.
Third, your claim that Lyn is "an individual poster who, time and time again, seeks to stir up as much drama as possible, manufacturing outrages where none exist and clamoring as loudly as their keyboard can clamor". Well, yes, Lyn might be someone who is uncomfortable to you, because he is, time and again, brining this same point up: That moderators are sometimes not held to the standards, by which everyone on this froums is supposed be measured. You even admitted as much. He has a valid point and just because you tire of being reminded of it and having to justify your behaviour there time and again, doesn't at all mean that Lyn is a poster that tried to stir up as much drama as possible.
Here you have made a very, very big misunderstanding. Allow me to clarify:
That moderators are sometimes not held to the standards, by which everyone on this froums is supposed be measured. You even admitted as much.
I have never said, nor meant to imply, that. What I have said is that sometimes Moderators aren't very nice. I have said that in the instances these things have been reported, we have looked at the not nice thing that was said and decided whether or not it was actionable. In most of these situations (including every one Lyn has made himself a nuisance over), we have decided that it was not actionable. In the situations where it was actionable, the post(s) were Moderated.
What I have said, is that if a Moderator correctly handles a situation, especially one in which that same Mod has been under personal attack by the person being Moderated, and that Mod says something 'not nice', then I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Silver said as much recently as well. And given the leeway that we give some of the posters on this board at times, I daresay this IS the same standard we hold everyone else to.
Lyn has, basically, one specific point of critique - one that's as I already said not without reason - and he speaks up whenever there is an instance of it occuring. If you feel that he's trying to raise trouble all the time, than that's probably because you quite often "don't loose sleep over a Mod saying something 'indelicate' in the course of moderating".
This is accurate. It's a dead horse. It's dead because it was beaten to death the first time Lyn brought it into the corral. Lyn continues bringing the same dead horse into the same corral. We're tired of beating it. It isn't going to change. At this point, it approaches intentionally disruptive behavior.
If you still don't see reason to change how you handle those matters, I can live with that. It's not what I'd prefer as a solution, though. And you will have to live with people who don't like it. You can ban them or live with them challenging you to change that behaviour. Unless you make a rule that's aginst criticising the moderators, I'd suggest the latter.
I really hope that the cooler and even-handed heads in the moderation team prevail on these issues.
That's fine. I would have no problem with different people, people who were new around here, raising the topic. What becomes burdensome and annoying is the same person asking the same question as if there's going to be a different answer this time. The answer has not been ambiguous. It has been definitive. It continues to be so.
Find something better to be outraged over. People in the real world are dying, be outraged about that. Don't be outraged over us not removing a Mod from the team because they said a bad fucking
word. We let you all cuss all the time, and I don't see anyone losing sleep over that, either. And the idea of a profanity-free Backstage has already been discussed and rejected, so don't even start.
Get over it. Return to posting about Eve and its RP, or whatever you all post about in the Off-Topic area.