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Author Topic: Safe-space and using names  (Read 1064 times)

Lt.Babylon

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Safe-space and using names
« on: 30 Nov 2015, 17:12 »

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5970.msg99773#msg99773

I have heard and seen a lot about this forum and now I have a moderation question.

As mention in the post above... by Nicoletta Mithra
"In my humble opinion, just catacombing those posts that are 'full Vinski' or 'otherwise being a dick about it' (which sounds to me like there's a similar quantity of impolitness implied), is by far too little. People should, in general, be able to stick to the rules of simple politeness. "

So what is Backstage policies on such things? As I heard that backstage permanent banned two users and one for using the phrase "doing a mithra". Is this use of a name, against the rules? And if so, what would be penalty if a user does this? How should I report such a thing? Should I send a report the post with a link to this thread, or should I add a further explanation?

I found two users extremely offensive in this regard, as they use the name of a former CCP employee and two RP-lers in a pejorative way.





I personally agree whit the sentence on that user and would hope that going forward the moderation team would also permanent ban two further users. As we do not need those attacks and micro-aggression on the forum.

#safespaceforall
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2015, 17:13 by Lt.Babylon »
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Mizhara

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #1 on: 30 Nov 2015, 18:09 »

I'll admit it. The moment someone uses the term safe-space un-ironically, I immediately tag them as a few eggs short of a basket. It has pretty much become synonymous with echo chambers and places for brewing up some of the worst hate-speech and clique generation around, as long as it's aimed at certain demographics. It pretty much guarantees the death of diversity in a community and has absolutely no place here.

The rules here function as they are, (even though I personally find them too constrictive as it is and are interpreted wildly differently depending on the moderator and its personal biases) and somewhat allows for different viewpoints and discussions to be had. Adding "being impolite" to the mix just opens up for flat out mod abuse to an even greater degree than we've seen before, as well as abuse of the report system to simply silence and censor unpopular views and opinions.
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Lt.Babylon

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #2 on: 30 Nov 2015, 19:02 »

I'll admit it. The moment someone uses the term safe-space un-ironically, I immediately tag them as a few eggs short of a basket. It has pretty much become synonymous with echo chambers and places for brewing up some of the worst hate-speech and clique generation around, as long as it's aimed at certain demographics. It pretty much guarantees the death of diversity in a community and has absolutely no place here.

The rules here function as they are, (even though I personally find them too constrictive as it is and are interpreted wildly differently depending on the moderator and its personal biases) and somewhat allows for different viewpoints and discussions to be had. Adding "being impolite" to the mix just opens up for flat out mod abuse to an even greater degree than we've seen before, as well as abuse of the report system to simply silence and censor unpopular views and opinions.

I agree. But on the other hand we could never get rid of this one person otherwise. Or? I mean, this person said: "doing a mithra" and he got banned for it (I have even seen the mail from one of the moderators. With exactly this argumentation). So It is more or less policy, so my question is: Would it also count in protection of users which are not directly on this forum. Like for example if someone use Diana Kim in a pejorative way? Or Nauplius? Or TonyG? If so, this safespace does not count for Mithra alone, also for others; could I than hope that those two users got permanent banned too?


I mean what is fair for Mithra should also be fair for others? In other words, they deserve the same safespace.



echo chambers and places for brewing up some of the worst hate-speech and clique generation

I agree. To go off topic here:

I have seen this person--which said "doing a mithra" and got permanent banned for it--got hate-mails form three backstage users in a anonymous fashion (several few day old NPC alts). With one of the three more or less boasting with what he had got done.

Another latter included more or less postmodern nonsense and hate-mongering in a very long fashion which could be sum up too: "you white CIS male etc...[...] check your privilege, you scholar XYZ reading, german nazi. etc....."
The victim of those mail and I have a good idea which person(s) at least sent the feminist nonsense mail. As it was fast very clear that, this person has no plan what-so-ever and spout out nonsense like: "they cannot be oppressed by definition."  "metanarrative" etc....

Off topic: Definitions cant be explanations.... If someone says ... "by definition something does x," or "by definition something does not x", or "by definition something can not choose x, or just choose x etc....."
If someone says such "by-defintion-explaination-nonsense", then this person does nothing else as saying "I said so, thats way." Just in a more educated fashion. :P

-Other examples "in-this-style" would be:
- MTV Decoded with Franchesca Ramsey, which more or less says the same postmodern nonsense.... "that afro-americans cant be racist by definition" followed by postmodern nonsense.
- Bahar Mustafa nonsense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9uMArSeg38 "can not be racist or sexist by defintion, because of ....." (1:56)
- Jade nonsense http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5683.msg93352#msg93352 http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5683.msg93315#msg93315

Like a I said.... The permanent banned users has very good idea which person(s) send him one of three mails.

But this is all off topic. The topic is.... can we hope that other users get also permanent banned for using a name in a pejorative way?




« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2015, 01:58 by Lt.Babylon »
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #3 on: 01 Dec 2015, 00:28 »

This forum is not a "safe space" outside of explicitly-stated protections from a few very specific sorts of behavior. Users are also encouraged to tread lightly - or not post at all - when it comes to hot-button topics such as politics or religion because the discussions inevitably devolve into people attacking other users rather than the ideas being presented, just like pretty much everywhere else on the internet. This is why the threads you link as examples elsewhere have been either locked or catacombed.

And as I have posted elsewhere, if you genuinely think that it was solely the "doing a Mithra" posts that got Publius banned, you are a sad, uninformed little man and you have a very small portion of what minuscule part of my pity still exists. Your posts also seem to share an incredibly similar tone, style and structure to his, so you're not exactly doing yourself many favors here either.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Lt.Babylon

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #4 on: 01 Dec 2015, 01:01 »


And as I have posted elsewhere, if you genuinely think that it was solely the "doing a Mithra" posts that got Publius banned, you are a sad, uninformed little man and you have a very small portion of what minuscule part of my pity still exists. Your posts also seem to share an incredibly similar tone, style and structure to his, so you're not exactly doing yourself many favors here either.

So he was wrong and Silas was right?

you are a sad, uninformed little man and you have a very small portion of what minuscule part of my pity still exists.


Anyway, now you as alpha male can tell me was it was? Beyond insults? I get that you hate him, and you got him banned. And even more you enjoying it.... So I get a feeling what typ of person you are.

Now. Can you tell me what typ of person Publius was? And why he got banned? I mean "doing a mithra" is really a bad reason. So if you are telling the true, then you can tell the real reason.




Off topic. I heard that you are unemployed? As alpha male? How can that be possible? See we can tell each other nice words, like that you just have a high school diploma etc....But what would be really alpha male, If you could tell me the reason.
« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2015, 01:29 by Lt.Babylon »
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Iwan Terpalen

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #5 on: 01 Dec 2015, 01:48 »

Watching edgelords parody social justice stuff they don't understand is its own special kind of funny. It's like a Donald Trump goodwill photo op; sure, there's a baby on his arm and he's smiling, but there's a rivulet of sweat running out from under his hairpiece, and he keeps throwing panicked glances at a notecard reading "DO NOT EAT BABY."
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Lt.Babylon

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #6 on: 01 Dec 2015, 01:56 »

Watching edgelords parody social justice stuff they don't understand is its own special kind of funny.

Nice....he even understood that it was a parody. Nice. Anyway, so what have I done wrong? I would love to learn more of this "social justice stuff" which I dont understand. Because in my country that stuff literally died in the early 80s. So sadly never saw it first hand.

Ivan tell me more about social justice. :P




Morwen dont forget: "But what would be really alpha male, If you could tell me the reason."
« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2015, 01:59 by Lt.Babylon »
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Iwan Terpalen

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #7 on: 01 Dec 2015, 02:16 »

>tell me about social justice
Iuonno. Tell me about tilting at windmills. What's your goal, here, in the larger sense?
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #8 on: 01 Dec 2015, 02:23 »

Publius was banned for an ongoing pattern of behavior that was in violation of the rules. That certain individual posts were marked as references in the PM he was sent when he was banned means nothing; they are merely examples of recent, specific rule violations and do not equate to the reasons for which he was banned overall.

I am unsure where Silas comes into the discussion. Nor where my personal feelings on Publius do, either. I don't hate him at all. I think he's just incapable of having a discussion in English without verbally assaulting other users in ways that are not permitted on this forum and many others. And I generally don't enjoy banning people. None of the mod team does, and while we'd rather not have to do it, sometimes people just don't want to play by the rules, and so they need to be removed. Typically what we feel is relief and disappointment, if anything. Relief that we no longer have to deal with the work caused by that person, and disappointment that they were too thick-headed and stubborn to adjust their behavior. If we're outright enjoying banning someone then they seriously fucked up and need to go re-evaluate their life decisions.

I, and the other moderators, are under no obligation to divulge to any user, the detailed explanation for why any other user was banned, warned or whatever. (In fact, it is normal policy on most forums that you don't do it. We don't have an explicit policy saying we can't, but we just don't generally do it unless they themselves ask for it in public. If you are Publius and just pretending not to be - something I suspect highly at this point - then by all means, say so, and we'll get this over and done with.)

That lack of obligation on our part does not give you permission to call us liars. It does not give you permission to bring my employment status into the discussion (seriously, what the fuck does that have to do with anything?), and it does not give you permission to make poor attempts at psychoanalyzing me. Cease and desist.

Unless you are Publius himself just pretending to be someone else, this is my final word (and frankly the moderation team's final word as a whole) on the subject of Publius' ban.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Lt.Babylon

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #9 on: 01 Dec 2015, 02:24 »

>tell me about social justice
Iuonno. Tell me about tilting at windmills. What's your goal, here, in the larger sense?
Not much, just to have some answers. As it now I still dont get really how this forum works. Anyway I sended Silver Night a mail so that I hope I can see an answer to a certain question.


What I do with the answer? I still dont know. Maybe laughing. Maybe misusing it on the forum for my goals. You know.... fun stuff. :P  As we are on the topic of misusing of power and fun stuff: Morwen... You still have not answer my question.
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Lt.Babylon

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #10 on: 01 Dec 2015, 02:26 »

Publius was banned for an ongoing pattern of behavior that was in violation of the rules. That certain individual posts were marked as references in the PM he was sent when he was banned means nothing; they are merely examples of recent, specific rule violations and do not equate to the reasons for which he was banned overall.


So then what were those examples? You still have not show me one?




That lack of obligation on our part does not give you permission to call us liars.

I just say what I saw. And I saw the mail. Sorry.
Second: Innocent until proven guilty, counts mostly also for this forum. So he MUST have done then something? What was it? Plz show me the post which trigger you.



I think he's just incapable of having a discussion in English without verbally assaulting other users in ways that are not permitted on this forum and many others.

Show that example please... which then lead to the ban.... You know, you should bring some example around the time he got banned. Otherwise you just talking.

As for "verbally assaulting". You understand the term falsification? I mean you must have study something? Or are you really a high school degree noob? Because what he did was not assaulting, but pointing out of errors. You understand the difference? I get really the feeling, "you hated him" or "you dont know what falsification is." And I cant belive that the later would be true. No person can be that stupid. So I guess it was hate then.

And that you still can show an example from around the time tells a lot. It tells me, that you talk out of your ass. Sorry. You have not shown me one post... was it because he used picture in the Funke thread? Something? I mean there must be something, which let you go and say: "NOW I BAN HIM."

As well as log-in and send a mail and boosting about our doings. As I mention above: One person exactly know that he was banned her, even before he said it publicly. I mean, that person has then to be YOU. Or a friend which also know your doings. Sorry thats how I see it. So second question.Is there another persons you told something?




Also:
I mean he had ranted about some people after the time. But it was more about that some people here do not understand falsification, as well as about the point that some assholes just rant at content creator (see how the community re-acted to Anslo).

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=6736.0


But as you can see that was after the ban. So it do not matter for the reason. So plz again. Show those posts which a wrote which pissed you off. Because I get the felling, that he pissed YOU off with some of his posts (or events, wikipages), and that you just used an excuse ("doing a mithra") to ban him. And that you still have not shown one post where he does that behavior. Which means most likely, that you said to yourself on August 2014:

"Fuck this shitlord. I ban him and send him a mail, and boost about what I have done.... And shit on him with every possible word I can use of, in short of "plz kill yoursefl."
« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2015, 02:53 by Lt.Babylon »
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Safe-space and using names
« Reply #11 on: 01 Dec 2015, 03:15 »

Global Moderator Comment OP was banned for, among other things, this thread. But mostly for circumventing prior bans that are still considered to be in effect.
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.