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[Mizhara]

I'm going to need examples. I've barely seen a hardliner since I started Eve.

[The Rook]

Slavery seems to be that dogmatic topic that does not allow intermediate positions. Years of "Not again" whenever slavery was discussed on the Summit have shown this. You're either against it or you're not in the cool kids club. Used to be the opposite in Amarr years ago, where opposing slavery was the cool kids club.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

The Rook: That's the point. It's not the topic per se that doesn't allow for intermediary positions, it that there are people that exclude you from the 'cool kids club' over taking a stance that is.

It's people doing that and ultimately players. vOv

[Esna Pitoojee]

If I can stick my head in and offer a more moderate viewpoint, I think there's something important being missed here:

Most non-Minmatar players do not get the chance to see 'internal' Minmatar activity, only external. External activity has a distinct bias in favor of discussing or involving slavery-related issues; moreover, external discussions tend come with a pre-existing confrontational tone which means responses in turn tend to have a more aggressive tone as well. This, in turn, can mean Minmatar characters that give non-confrontational answers in this situation are perceived as 'giving ground' in arguments, rather than calm discussion.

All of this combines to form a situation that builds the idea that what you seen public is all that happens.

Mind you, I do also think there is very real pressure not to take an anti-slavery position, but to take a violently anti-Amarr position. Compared to Sansha's Nation, Blooders, and the Angel Cartel the Amarr is consistently pointed to as somehow the biggest immediate issue, and anything less than military opposition to it first and foremost somehow 'wrong'. That's not only a Minmatar issue either; there are very real corollaries in Amarr RP as well.

[Ember Vykos]

Thats why it was fun being in the Angel Cartel circles on Ember.
You were this totally nasty ass slaver but no one ever really called you on it.
It was all grr Amarr

[Saede Riordan]

I had a thought on something. If you, say, create a caldari character to start with, and decide later that you don't want to be Caldari and instead want to be loyal to the Amarr, what do you do? Well, its not even really that difficult, you just embrace their religion and you're welcomed aboard. The same could be said about most groups, with the exception of PIE, your race doesn't matter, your actions are what matters. Given that, I think the following can be loosely extrapolated, and this is a falsifiable prediction, if someone wants to sit down and count all the active players:

X = Total faction population
x = All characters within X ∩ race x
Z = All races within X ∩ !x

So X={x,Z}

My prediction would be that if you ran the numbers for each faction's loyalist population {x<Z} would be true for all factions.

With that hypothesis in mind, its possible that the tribal, familial based RP might be hurting minmatar RP, because you can't change your bloodline on the fly to make yourself belong. Whereas one can easily integrate into the Amarrian faith, its very hard as a non-minmatar character, to throw yourself in with the minmatar. From their perspective, you're always going to be an outsider.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

<snip>
With that hypothesis in mind, its possible that the tribal, familial based RP might be hurting minmatar RP, because you can't change your bloodline on the fly to make yourself belong. Whereas one can easily integrate into the Amarrian faith, its very hard as a non-minmatar character, to throw yourself in with the minmatar. From their perspective, you're always going to be an outsider.

I would refer you to my own Clan Ogunkoya & it's stated aims then.

Commitment & loyalty first. Genetics second. it's just if people who aren't Minmatar want to join they'll have to make a very good case & I'll have to dream up some sort of acceptance trial and ceremony prior to a Voluval.

[ValentinaDLM]

There is certainly the idea in RP that blood matters more than clan, and that doesn't have to be that way. It could stand to discourage people, but personally, I like the idea of someone adopting a culture and a loyalty and integrating in to a clan.

Critical mass of RPers is a really big thing too, the Minmatar RPers we have are divided certainly. Like, if you have 5 people in GRD, 5 in RE-AW, and 10 in UNITY, an 10 in various single person corps, it will have much less effect than having 30 active people in one corp/alliance. This critical mass was something that certainly once existed in UNITY, and -EM- and to a lessor extend even groups like Terra Matarr managed to generate a sort of RP gravity around them with the sheer personality and presence of their members.

This is something, that can be achieved, but there will probably have to be some commitment from people who want the faction to grow. To this point, I can't really say much, my main is in a Caldari FW corp, not particularly against the Republic, but she isn't really pushing the Minmatar as a faction, merely a culture. There is also the point that not everyone is willing to deal with the realities of being involved in PVP, mining, RP, or Industry. One corp makes it difficult to do it all. An alliance probably can, but even if you look at the Amarrian RP groups arguably the strongest community ATM, CVA does null, PIE does FW, SFRIM does highsec, and so on.

I read about older stuff like the The People's Republic of Minmatar and it makes me think the potential is certainly there.

[Lyn Farel]

SFRIM does more than highsec though, even if unofficially. A lot of our members regularly go to lowsec, or nullsec in Providence, or Anoikis... I think it is possible to do many things as a single corp... But the danger is to get a certain... decohesion.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Since Luna took over (even before the official change in CEO-ship) there has been a diversification of what SFRIM is doing - especially towards PvP, which was originally explicitly excluded from corp activities. It's not only about what SFRIM is doing, it's also a relaxed recruitment policy.

On the up side, it probably brought more members with it. I personally have the feeling it brought also decohesion with it, a development I personally see critically, since SFRIM was never cohering that much.

[Mizhara]

Well, having a look at the IGS I note with bemusement that the most popular post in a Worldbuilding Thread aiming to prepare for a Minmatar cultural event is a Diana Kim post being the usual Diana Kim post. "This is the state of Eve RP" I thought. Milking Minmatar slaves and derailing worldbuilding attempts.

I am having genuine trouble trying to figure out why anyone bother anymore.

[Ayallah]

Saede, all you have to do to be a part of Minmatar RP is be pro minmatar.  If hell, you wanted to join all you need is to join a clan, go through the rituals. 

No change of behavior even required really.  I would say minmatar is easier than amarr even. 

And Mizhara, YOU are a hardliner.  "kill all amarr" kill the slaves who are of amarr religion?  Anti-republic ...?

[Havohej]

[admin]Locked.  Anything of merit that this thread was going to see, it has already seen.[/admin]