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[Esna Pitoojee]

Well, they actually nerfed back the proposed changes to the recons (mainly the T2 resist profiles) so price is stabilizing somewhat.

[Merdaneth]

With D-Scan changes I can finally do what I always wanted. Put a Curse somewhere in system, abandon it, fly around in a small vessel and make oneself visible, then switch to Curse with my old ship still on D-scan, and then hit em by surprise

[Anyanka Funk]

You can also use a scan inhibitor for wherever you plop your small ship so you don't end up losing both ships.

[Silas Vitalia]

I don't use alts for it. I use fleetmembers. You know, other people?

That's the kind of answer that doesn't mean anything, because you can say that about any thing in the game.

X problem? Duh just bring x + 1 you n00b

[Mizhara]

Well, I don't tend to call people noobs, but yes. It is a solution to most problems in Eve. You brought a rock vs that other guy's paper? Fleet up with a scissor. They brought logi but equal numbers? Bring ECM. Everything has a counter and in a massively multiplayer game, balance is not made around solo.

If this change means you don't have advance warning when something lands on the gate to your PLEX? Deal with it or have a scout there. You can't scan what's inside the PLEX? Well shit, that's already a thing with scan disruptors. Guess they're borked too, you know... unless you scout first.

Nothing wrong with having to interact with others to succeed in this game.

[Morwen Lagann]

This is a bit different from the scan inhibitors though - scan inhibitors still will show on scan and are easy to probe out, even if everything inside their area of effect is invisible to both. You know something ~might~ be at a specific location but not what might be there.

With combat recons it will be the opposite at best - you know what might be in space, but not where (unless you apply probes).

[Mizhara]

Well, whs notwithstanding, you know there are neuts/bads in the system and they might be in recons in the plex. Act accordingly. I really don't see the problem here. They're not that dangerous ships on their own anyway, and if you have scouts you can find them inside or outside the plex. If you have a prober, you can damn near pinpoint if they're in the plex in a few seconds.

I don't really see how it's so much more different from scan disruptors, since all they are showing is that someone was in the plex at some point. You still don't know if there are someone there, what they're in etc etc.

This is an absolutely minimal change to low and even nullsec.

[Lyn Farel]

Well, I don't tend to call people noobs, but yes. It is a solution to most problems in Eve. You brought a rock vs that other guy's paper? Fleet up with a scissor. They brought logi but equal numbers? Bring ECM. Everything has a counter and in a massively multiplayer game, balance is not made around solo.

If this change means you don't have advance warning when something lands on the gate to your PLEX? Deal with it or have a scout there. You can't scan what's inside the PLEX? Well shit, that's already a thing with scan disruptors. Guess they're borked too, you know... unless you scout first.

Nothing wrong with having to interact with others to succeed in this game.

Yeah and at the same time they do everything they can to make people open other accounts and use alts because the damn game demands it.

[Silas Vitalia]

As long as there is a financial incentive for CCP to have players running multiple accounts the game play will continue to support a 'need' for them. 

I think the no recon on dscan thing won't change much of anything until they fix local as a free Intel machine.   

[Esna Pitoojee]

Well, whs notwithstanding, you know there are neuts/bads in the system and they might be in recons in the plex. Act accordingly. I really don't see the problem here. They're not that dangerous ships on their own anyway, and if you have scouts you can find them inside or outside the plex. If you have a prober, you can damn near pinpoint if they're in the plex in a few seconds.

Addressing the plex issue real fast:

The issue isn't that the recons will be undetectable in the plex, but that this will (like the old cloaky stabbed frigates that got nerfed) make it possible to hide from D-scan in plexes with zero loss to the user.

The idea is, recon (mainly Huginn) sits in a plex waiting for someone to come in and pounding his own D-scan. He is 40-50km off the entrance point using artillery. If he sees a target he can take, he blaps it from range; if he sees a target he can't take or a blob, he warps out to a safe. Even if he misses D-scan, by constantly switching alignments he can guarantee and instant warpout the moment something actually threatening comes into the plex.

The difference with this compared to a mobile scan inhibitor is that it is cost-less. A scan inhibitor is a 16m ISK one-time-use structure. There's no way someone will drop that in every single plex.



More and more I'm considering the idea of having recons get some kind of "bonus mode switching" like the Confessor - i.e., one mode, you have D-scan invisibility but can't move, have no EWAR, or something. Another mode, you can move and have EWAR, but no d-scan immunity.

[Mizhara]

Wouldn't exactly say a T2 Cruiser is costless. He's also paying the price by being significantly less combat capable etc than most medium sized  alternatives whenever he's not the scissor to their paper.

Also Silas, Lyn, I don't use alts in combat. At all. I've very occasionally used alts to scout local, or check a gate for me when I'm bringing something clunky and valuable somewhere dangerous and even then only because they were handy nearby and I didn't want to bother corp/alliance. I could deactivate my one active alt account today and Miz's life in low/FW would change almost insignificantly. The only real change would be having to shift my isk making efforts over to Miz and putting a few days into training better hauling.

This change does not mean you "need" alts. It just means your fleets need scouts. I would be quite surprised if this wasn't already the case.

[Lyn Farel]

Oh I don't use alts either at all. I have one single account and this has been the case for years. I used a second account for almost 2 years a bit after I started playing for hauling, but I think that in retrospect that was a mistake. Especially since I think second accounts are a definite game killer (especially on the collaborative multiplayer side of any MMO, multiboxing being the extreme case example). 

But people use gazillions of alts, and will continue to do so as long as it's more convenient for them and allows them to bypass a lot of game constraints.

[Havohej]

Yeah, so many facets of the game are just so bloody difficult without multiple accounts.  I've always kinda attributed that to the way skilling up works (i.e.: real time), so you can't just grind Skill X on Character Y and have maxed out mining in 12 hours like some other games - AND to the fact that CCP recognizes this and understands that they're financially thriving off of it (Power of 2, Sidekick discount, start a 6th account today!, etc.).

There's times when I really, really wish I had, say, a links alt or a logi/carrier alt or a falcon alt (lol @ my falcon main, I think 90% of the kms I got on with Anslo's rabble, I was in a Falcon).  But I don't have those things, so I just count myself lucky in that I'm able to have a Market/Hauler/Covops/Blockade Runner alt all rolled into one character on just one extra account.

It's a mixed feeling though.  I definitely see where folks are coming from when they bemoan the widespread use of alts, and it does get absolutely crazy sometimes (9x Mallers gogogogogogo lol).  And while I think that cracking down on the automation of ISBoxer (I think that's what it's called?) is a good move, it's also very difficult to say someone is wrong for dumping more cash into their hobby.  We wouldn't tell a model train enthusiast he's bad for spending $10,000 on a huge, detailed environment for his electric trains to chug through, so it's difficult to point the "bad" finger at someone who chooses to blow $100/mo. on a given video game.

[Anskek]

So they forgot to mention that sleeper scouts will now rek your shit in Proteus. They will follow you. They will station camp you. They will blob you. And they damage modules.

rip

[Samira Kernher]

And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.