Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: kalaratiri on 20 Dec 2014, 08:59
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You've probably all already seen this Devblog (https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/dev-blog-coming-to-eve-online-proteus/), but I figured I'd reproduce it here for people to add their comments to.
Even as most of the EVE Online team is preparing for the holidays, we are still working our with limited bandwidth to get you a few things in our January release. Here’s an outline of the features coming to EVE Online in the Proteus (http://community.eveonline.com/releases/proteus/) release and an update on where we are with our work on changes to sovereignty game play and 0.0 security space.
The events unfolding in the New Eden universe will continue, and we will also continue with not telling you explicitly about everything that is going to happen. So keep paying attention to in-game news, features and events if you want to follow, discover and have an impact on the next steps on our road towards big changes to the EVE universe in 2015.
Here are the features in Proteus:
Combat Recon Ships Undetectable by Directional Scanning
Combat recon ships will be impossible to detect with directional scans and bonuses and attributes will be looked over for all 8 Force and Combat Recon ships. For more details and to provide feedback, take a look at this thread: Recon Ships (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5318918&_ga=1.72407251.1799886277.1410719885)
Redesigned Exequror Hull
Hull variants for the Oneiros and Navy Issue will follow in coming releases. If you want some ideas for what to do with an Exequror, we can recommend this solo PvP video featuring Jim Jams. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5B6kPK8IIc)
(http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66780/1/ExequrorHullRedesign.jpg)
10 Module Groups Rebalanced
In a substantial package of balance changes that are part of the "Module Tiericide (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-eve-one-module-at-a-time/)" project, the following modules groups will see changes: Capacitor Rechargers, Capacitor Power Relays, Power Diagnostics Units, Mining Lasers, Mining Laser Upgrades, Expanded Cargoholds, Nanofiber Internal Structures, Reinforced Bulkheads, Inertial Stabilizers and Overdrive Injectors. Threads for feedback will be posted in the Features & Ideas forum. (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270&_ga=1.160561917.1799886277.1410719885)
New Visual Effects in Asteroid Belts
Originally scheduled for Rhea, new dust effects, light rays, and rock fragments will be added to asteroid belts in Proteus to create a more immersive experience.
(http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66780/1/PrettyAsteroidBelt.png)
New Features for the Beta Starmap
The new star map released as an opt-in feature in Rhea (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/a-map-to-treasure/) will see several updates. Additions likely to make it into the Proteus release are things like a standalone system view, probe scanning support, directional scanning cone visualized in the system view and mouse-over information on stars, planets and moons.
Small Scale Mining Anomalies in Starting Systems
To make sure there are enough mining opportunities in starter and career agent systems, Proteus will bring a new kind of small scale ore anomalies suitable for young capsuleers.
Teams Retiring
In Proteus, we will retire the Teams feature that is currently part of Industry. Read more about this change and the reasons behind it in this dev blog: Industry & Teams - The Removal of Teams. (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/teams-removal/)
A New Voice for Aura in German and Russian
A few recordings for Aura were missing from the German and Russian clients, so we decided to redo all of them. For Russian Aura we have used a voice actress, but for the German version several players suggested we contact EVE player Naburi NasNaburi (https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Naburi%20NasNaburi?_ga=1.132289230.1799886277.1410719885), a popular pirate amongst German-speaking capsuleers. She is well known for her parody songs "EVE. Oh EVE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1Go8mxyys)" and "My guns were made for shooting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk94sHoJ4dg)" and is the co-host of DJ Raserball on EVE-Radio. She agreed to record the new version of Aura's lines in German, and with Proteus, this will be the new voice of Aura for clients with German as the language setting.
The Proteus Theme
Proteus comes with more music from EVE composer CCP RealX. In fact it’s already available right here (https://soundcloud.com/ccpgames/eve-online-proteus-2015). The EVE Online SoundCloud page (http://www.soundcloud.com/ccpgames) also has dozens of release themes, EVE trailer music, sound effects, CCP dev rap music, and the rest of EVE’s soundtrack. All free to stream and download.
A few more things may make it into the release, keep an eye out for the Patch Notes in January for the full set of changes. Events will also continue to unfold in New Eden, so do pay attention to game news and events.
For those of you waiting for the Minmatar Tactical Destroyer, I can report that Honorary Fleet Architect Lotrec Emetin is seeing the last details come into place and the ship is scheduled for the Tiamat release on February 17th.
A Status Update on our Work on Sovereignty Gameplay
In the blog about the long distance travel changes in Phoebe (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/long-distance-travel-changes-inbound/), we outlined 3 phases of work on addressing gameplay in 0.0 security space in New Eden. Phase One was the travel changes, and we have now started work on Phase Two - a set of changes to sovereignty mechanics and related features and systems. Two teams are working on this full time, combining changes to structure gameplay, corporations and alliances and the sovereignty mechanics themselves in order to make impactful changes to EVE that improve gameplay and quality of life. Three things are in motion relating to this where we are seeking your input:
- We are doing design work on sovereignty mechanics, and we are preparing to present concrete designs to the CSM at the CSM Winter Summit on January 20-23rd. Meeting minutes and dev blogs will follow to let the full community participate in discussing the proposed changes.
- We are doing design work and preparing for big changes to structures overall in EVE--including structures involved in sovereignty mechanics. As input into that work, we are running a survey on structure related gameplay in EVE, including a number of questions around sovereignty structures and gameplay. Please give your thoughts and perspective by participating here: http://structures.questionpro.com
- We are taking requests for big and small improvements to the corporation and alliance interface and we will be releasing features continuously in 2015, along with deeper changes such as intra-corporation aggression changes and extended alliance-based functionality such as bookmarks. Please post your interface suggestions in this thread: We want your corp little things! (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5310914&_ga=1.93461085.1799886277.1410719885)
- We will evolve these key systems with the ambition of strengthening the unique sandbox gameplay in EVE, making territorial warfare available to both big and small groups, creating more meaningful objectives and gameplay connected to it, and offering quality of life changes to anyone operating in EVE connected to this gameplay. You can also expect the unfolding events in New Eden to make a difference for all areas of the universe.
Improving this part of EVE is at the heart of our plans for 2015. We will not just release a single set of changes, but continuously work with these systems all throughout the year and take the time needed to make things work well to provide good times and good fights.
We are very excited about this endeavor, and I hope you will be too once you get to see more of the actual plans early next year.
Thank You and See You in 2015
With that, I'd like to thank you all for being part of EVE Online in 2014 and I wish you all happy holidays full of good EVE and out-of-EVE times. We hope to have all of you with us for a very exciting EVE 2015.
/CCP Seagull
Executive Producer, EVE Online
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(http://i.imgur.com/c0UrJFv.gif)
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While the Exequror redesign looks pretty cool, I'm starting to get the feel that the entire CCP art team has a hardon for killing asymmetry. At least they actually got the Gallente aesthetic down right, unlike some other new ships *coughconfessorcoughmoacoughblackbirdcough*.
Visuals in belts... meh. I barely go to belts anymore, and when I do I'm totally zoomed out to preserve my ancient graphics card.
Module groups rebalancing, I'm still mixed on. The changing of meta modules from worst<->best I approve of, but the loss of name flavor is disappointing to me. Probably just the bittervet in me.
Starmap, haven't actually tried yet. Heard good things, though.
Combat Recons becoming immune to D-scan... I'm not sure on. On the one hand, it'll be nice to give them some role; on the other, "immune" is a strong word and several people have pointed out this will make living in wormholes much harder endeavor for small or solo groups now.
What I wish is that CCP could have figured out some way to make them resistant to probing or D-scan, so that you could hide in one way out in a deep safe but be easily detectable if you had ten recons sitting on a perch 1000km off a celestial.
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While the Exequror redesign looks pretty cool, I'm starting to get the feel that the entire CCP art team has a hardon for killing asymmetry. At least they actually got the Gallente aesthetic down right, unlike some other new ships *coughconfessorcoughmoacoughblackbirdcough*.
Agreed on the blackbird, they drifted away from whatever made the raven and eagle so good.
Visuals in belts... meh. I barely go to belts anymore, and when I do I'm totally zoomed out to preserve my ancient graphics card.
But think of all the miners who will have an spectacular view from now on! :lol:
Module groups rebalancing, I'm still mixed on. The changing of meta modules from worst<->best I approve of, but the loss of name flavor is disappointing to me. Probably just the bittervet in me.
One of the hardest things to me when starting the game was all the name mumbo-jumbo.....adjusting that is a major step towards making it better for new players, but i think some hard changes need to be made also, we don't need 5 t1 variants of armor repairers or shield boosters...2-3 would be enough, considering there is also faction/officer/pirate stuff.
Starmap, haven't actually tried yet. Heard good things, though.
For the moment, its quite beautiful, and it delivers the epic scale of the eve universe......for that alone i would say its a job well done, but its far from finished...it needs a lot of tools now.
On the topic of recons, i have serious doubts in all fronts....but don't have the flight time experience to say it will be game breaking or balanced.
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I like the overall direction they are heading in terms of art. These new designs aren't completely symmetric, so saying that the CCP art team has a hard-on for killing asymmetry is a bit of an over exaggeration, I think. I think CCP nailed the Blackbird hull redesign; the many polygons contribute well to the theme of a highly advanced cruiser (likely capable of breaking up incoming sensors and whatnot).
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D-Scan Immune Combat Recons, or: "How to make a lot of people very angry in under 10 seconds".
They are already calling the death of medium FW plexes. I am already considering how to abuse medium FW plexes.
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D-Scan immunity just means you'll need to fleet up and have scouts. Fantastic thing in my book. Also makes the Recons better at their job. Scouting and doing recon. I love this and hope to see more of it.
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Actually, I do understand where most of the hate is coming from.
One suggestion that has been made that I actually rather like is that Recons should be invisible on scan ranges of greater than 1au, and the Recons gain an added role bonus of extended d-scan range. Let them d-scan out to 30au or something. Allows them both added intel gathering abilities, hides them for increased tactical options, but does not make them an instant win machine for hunting people doing plexes/pve, etc (as long as the pve'rs are paying attention).
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Nothing instant win about it. Keep scouts out. Voila, problem solved.
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Not everyone has the alt accounts to scout with.
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I don't use alts for it. I use fleetmembers. You know, other people?
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Other... people... ?
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Other... people... ?
I know, right? Blew my mind when I discovered there's this thing called "fleets" and other people in the game. Completely revolutionized my PvP.
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I don't have an alt either. I do however have pilots who do my bidding. :twisted:
Also I like the new changes, that is all.
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In before 300m Curse.
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Well, they actually nerfed back the proposed changes (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5335877#post5335877) to the recons (mainly the T2 resist profiles) so price is stabilizing somewhat.
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With D-Scan changes I can finally do what I always wanted. Put a Curse somewhere in system, abandon it, fly around in a small vessel and make oneself visible, then switch to Curse with my old ship still on D-scan, and then hit em by surprise :)
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You can also use a scan inhibitor for wherever you plop your small ship so you don't end up losing both ships.
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I don't use alts for it. I use fleetmembers. You know, other people?
That's the kind of answer that doesn't mean anything, because you can say that about any thing in the game.
X problem? Duh just bring x + 1 you n00b
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Well, I don't tend to call people noobs, but yes. It is a solution to most problems in Eve. You brought a rock vs that other guy's paper? Fleet up with a scissor. They brought logi but equal numbers? Bring ECM. Everything has a counter and in a massively multiplayer game, balance is not made around solo.
If this change means you don't have advance warning when something lands on the gate to your PLEX? Deal with it or have a scout there. You can't scan what's inside the PLEX? Well shit, that's already a thing with scan disruptors. Guess they're borked too, you know... unless you scout first.
Nothing wrong with having to interact with others to succeed in this game.
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This is a bit different from the scan inhibitors though - scan inhibitors still will show on scan and are easy to probe out, even if everything inside their area of effect is invisible to both. You know something ~might~ be at a specific location but not what might be there.
With combat recons it will be the opposite at best - you know what might be in space, but not where (unless you apply probes).
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Well, whs notwithstanding, you know there are neuts/bads in the system and they might be in recons in the plex. Act accordingly. I really don't see the problem here. They're not that dangerous ships on their own anyway, and if you have scouts you can find them inside or outside the plex. If you have a prober, you can damn near pinpoint if they're in the plex in a few seconds.
I don't really see how it's so much more different from scan disruptors, since all they are showing is that someone was in the plex at some point. You still don't know if there are someone there, what they're in etc etc.
This is an absolutely minimal change to low and even nullsec.
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Well, I don't tend to call people noobs, but yes. It is a solution to most problems in Eve. You brought a rock vs that other guy's paper? Fleet up with a scissor. They brought logi but equal numbers? Bring ECM. Everything has a counter and in a massively multiplayer game, balance is not made around solo.
If this change means you don't have advance warning when something lands on the gate to your PLEX? Deal with it or have a scout there. You can't scan what's inside the PLEX? Well shit, that's already a thing with scan disruptors. Guess they're borked too, you know... unless you scout first.
Nothing wrong with having to interact with others to succeed in this game.
Yeah and at the same time they do everything they can to make people open other accounts and use alts because the damn game demands it.
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As long as there is a financial incentive for CCP to have players running multiple accounts the game play will continue to support a 'need' for them.
I think the no recon on dscan thing won't change much of anything until they fix local as a free Intel machine.
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Well, whs notwithstanding, you know there are neuts/bads in the system and they might be in recons in the plex. Act accordingly. I really don't see the problem here. They're not that dangerous ships on their own anyway, and if you have scouts you can find them inside or outside the plex. If you have a prober, you can damn near pinpoint if they're in the plex in a few seconds.
Addressing the plex issue real fast:
The issue isn't that the recons will be undetectable in the plex, but that this will (like the old cloaky stabbed frigates that got nerfed) make it possible to hide from D-scan in plexes with zero loss to the user.
The idea is, recon (mainly Huginn) sits in a plex waiting for someone to come in and pounding his own D-scan. He is 40-50km off the entrance point using artillery. If he sees a target he can take, he blaps it from range; if he sees a target he can't take or a blob, he warps out to a safe. Even if he misses D-scan, by constantly switching alignments he can guarantee and instant warpout the moment something actually threatening comes into the plex.
The difference with this compared to a mobile scan inhibitor is that it is cost-less. A scan inhibitor is a 16m ISK one-time-use structure. There's no way someone will drop that in every single plex.
More and more I'm considering the idea of having recons get some kind of "bonus mode switching" like the Confessor - i.e., one mode, you have D-scan invisibility but can't move, have no EWAR, or something. Another mode, you can move and have EWAR, but no d-scan immunity.
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Wouldn't exactly say a T2 Cruiser is costless. He's also paying the price by being significantly less combat capable etc than most medium sized alternatives whenever he's not the scissor to their paper.
Also Silas, Lyn, I don't use alts in combat. At all. I've very occasionally used alts to scout local, or check a gate for me when I'm bringing something clunky and valuable somewhere dangerous and even then only because they were handy nearby and I didn't want to bother corp/alliance. I could deactivate my one active alt account today and Miz's life in low/FW would change almost insignificantly. The only real change would be having to shift my isk making efforts over to Miz and putting a few days into training better hauling.
This change does not mean you "need" alts. It just means your fleets need scouts. I would be quite surprised if this wasn't already the case.
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Oh I don't use alts either at all. I have one single account and this has been the case for years. I used a second account for almost 2 years a bit after I started playing for hauling, but I think that in retrospect that was a mistake. Especially since I think second accounts are a definite game killer (especially on the collaborative multiplayer side of any MMO, multiboxing being the extreme case example). :)
But people use gazillions of alts, and will continue to do so as long as it's more convenient for them and allows them to bypass a lot of game constraints.
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Yeah, so many facets of the game are just so bloody difficult without multiple accounts. I've always kinda attributed that to the way skilling up works (i.e.: real time), so you can't just grind Skill X on Character Y and have maxed out mining in 12 hours like some other games - AND to the fact that CCP recognizes this and understands that they're financially thriving off of it (Power of 2, Sidekick discount, start a 6th account today!, etc.).
There's times when I really, really wish I had, say, a links alt or a logi/carrier alt or a falcon alt (lol @ my falcon main, I think 90% of the kms I got on with Anslo's rabble, I was in a Falcon). But I don't have those things, so I just count myself lucky in that I'm able to have a Market/Hauler/Covops/Blockade Runner alt all rolled into one character on just one extra account.
It's a mixed feeling though. I definitely see where folks are coming from when they bemoan the widespread use of alts, and it does get absolutely crazy sometimes (9x Mallers gogogogogogo lol). And while I think that cracking down on the automation of ISBoxer (I think that's what it's called?) is a good move, it's also very difficult to say someone is wrong for dumping more cash into their hobby. We wouldn't tell a model train enthusiast he's bad for spending $10,000 on a huge, detailed environment for his electric trains to chug through, so it's difficult to point the "bad" finger at someone who chooses to blow $100/mo. on a given video game.
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So they forgot to mention that sleeper scouts will now rek your shit in Proteus. They will follow you. They will station camp you. They will blob you. And they damage modules.
rip
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
FC I'm scared what do
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
I hope not. :twisted:
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
FC I'm scared what do
Bring more bros, until tidi. Once we establish tidi, we'll out-patience them to death. Right?
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
FC I'm scared what do
Bring more bros, until tidi. Once we establish tidi, we'll out-patience them to death. Right?
Those are drones, not pubbies. They will willingly wait forever.
Still, sounds fun. Instant undock at all stations!
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My new undocking policy
Always cloaked, all the time
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
I hope not. :twisted:
would be good thou, since you no longer have clones or costs associated with podding (unless you happen to use expensive implants :twisted:)
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So they forgot to mention that sleeper scouts will now rek your shit in Proteus. They will follow you. They will station camp you. They will blob you. And they damage modules.
rip
Those peacefully roaming Circadian Seekers already scare me to death every time a bunch of them appears on the overview after a gate jump. :D Anything alien following me through stargates would definitely put the panic factor up another notch or two!
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And they pod you. Unless that was a bug.
I hope not. :twisted:
would be good thou, since you no longer have clones or costs associated with podding (unless you happen to use expensive implants :twisted:)
I meant I hope it is not a bug. But it is or hoax. They don't pod. But that would add something new and I would enjoy it.
/me buys high-grade ascendancy set
:twisted: :evil: :twisted:
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TISHU confirmed to RP as serbian alliance to remove the sleeper kebab and keep everyone safe.
xaxa))))))))
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http://youtu.be/SVSe0MX6qOY
Circadian sleepers confirmed to pod by a very excitable man. Not confirmed if this is a bug or a feature.
Also, their damage to pods is so low, you'd have to be literally asleep to get podded.
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http://youtu.be/SVSe0MX6qOY
Circadian sleepers confirmed to pod by a very excitable man. Not confirmed if this is a bug or a feature.
Also, their damage to pods is so low, you'd have to be literally asleep to get podded.
Counting down to your killmail
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Well, I don't tend to call people noobs, but yes. It is a solution to most problems in Eve. You brought a rock vs that other guy's paper? Fleet up with a scissor. They brought logi but equal numbers? Bring ECM. Everything has a counter and in a massively multiplayer game, balance is not made around solo.
If this change means you don't have advance warning when something lands on the gate to your PLEX? Deal with it or have a scout there. You can't scan what's inside the PLEX? Well shit, that's already a thing with scan disruptors. Guess they're borked too, you know... unless you scout first.
Nothing wrong with having to interact with others to succeed in this game.
Deal with it is a great solution to everything, just like blobing. D-scan immunity is a gimmicky change that wasn't really needed imo.
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You know, how come no one got huffy about the other kind of d-scan immunity that those other recons have always had? Cloaks. Now there's a d-scan immunity you can't even spot with scouts. They're hardly gamebreaking and are common everywhere.
I just don't see what the problem with this d-scan immunity is. I don't fly combat recons so I'm not gaining anything from this, so I don't have a horse in the "must have" race. I'm just not seeing any problem with this being used against me. If I sit in a plex I'm going to need a scout or be ready and aligned if I want to be "safe", and frankly why would I want that if I'm in a plex?
Could someone explain exactly why this is a bad change?
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I just don't see what the problem with this d-scan immunity is. I don't fly combat recons so I'm not gaining anything from this, so I don't have a horse in the "must have" race. I'm just not seeing any problem with this being used against me. If I sit in a plex I'm going to need a scout or be ready and aligned if I want to be "safe", and frankly why would I want that if I'm in a plex?
Could someone explain exactly why this is a bad change?
It makes protecting a wormhole system more time-consuming/tedious. In smaller systems, you can find one or two spots that will let you d-scan pretty much everything. Granted, it doesn't spot cloaks, but in order for that cloaked ship to steal your resources (i.e. mine, harvest or run sites), they have to decloak. With d-scan immune combat recons, they can be in a site, and you won't even know they're there: no local, no d-scan. The only way to even know they're there is to go into the site itself and/or have someone do nothing but site parked, cloaked off every wormhole.
They'll become the defacto tackle in wormholes. Site the DPS safely outside, send in a Lachesis (or, worse, a Lachesis and any other combat recon) to tackle, and the DPS squad has plenty of time to jump in and warp to the victim.
Similar issues apply to faction warfare. You won't be able to check complexes on d-scan. You'll have to go in, slide the gate and visually verify whether there's a recon in there. And you'll have to use a combat recon to do, otherwise, the recon in the site will see it coming and just move.
Unlike the Mobile Scan Inhibitor that PYRE used in Arnstur, you at least knew something was there. You didn't know what, but you knew something was there.
Like Ashley said, it's gimmicky. Yeah, it gives combat recons a reason to be used. I know there generally wasn't a reason to take Rook over a Falcon, unless your pilot couldn't use a cov-ops cloak. All it's doing is putting in an arms race/escalation.
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All I knew was that there was a disruptor in there. I had no idea if there was a fleet waiting. You can drop those things all over the place if you want.
And yes, this means you have to actually scout places to be sure and that's a wonderful thing. You give utility to a ship that's got little of it, giving it a slightly wider niche to live in. It means you have to be prepared for the notion that just hitting d-scan every two seconds will no longer save you from any and all hostiles. This sounds fantastic to me.
There's literally nothing bad about this to me.
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http://youtu.be/SVSe0MX6qOY
Circadian sleepers confirmed to pod by a very excitable man. Not confirmed if this is a bug or a feature.
Also, their damage to pods is so low, you'd have to be literally asleep to get podded.
Counting down to your killmail
Ahahahaha.
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Don't get me wrong. I love recons, and combat recons are kind of red-headed stepchildren.
But, there's no downside to this ability. The tradeoff of a cloak is that you can't have it running and do things (except run probes).
All this is doing is creating an escalation. Park a combat recon in a complex, and the only way to find him is with another combat recon; send in anything else, and they warp off. It becomes very one-dimensional.
Sure, combat recons need something to set them apart, but what they went with is really kinda "meh."
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All it's doing is putting in an arms race/escalation.
I disagree - because if they can already Falcon then they can already Rook. As with the Force Recons, if the enemy/target has direct eyes on a jump-in/undock (i.e.: seeing the Force Recon before/after it cloaks/decloaks), they'll see the Combat Recon and choose whether to engage or not. This allows combat recons to be hidden from everything except direct eyes*. There's no further escalation - unlike with, say, T3, which became a race to train the skills and amass the ISK to afford the opening prices of the hulls/subsystems - because everyone can already fly them.
*Except probes, obviously - which, presumably, nobody is going to drop probes to look for random Curses and Rooks that may or may not be there.
I can't see the Combat Recon - any of the four - being well-tanked enough or having enough DPS, let alone both, to run w-space sites (or any other high-value pve sites) either solo or in small groups. Certainly not without Logistics cruisers, which negate the d-scan immunity by their very presence. To see two or three Guardians on dscan at a site, with no other ships in evidence, would basically announce the presence of a Combat Recon fleet, I think.
Further, the Force Recons will remain the preferred ship for tackling PvE players in sites because you cannot know where you're going to land in relation to the target(s). You might warp to a site at 100km and find yourself right on top of them, or you might warp to 100km and find the target 300km away from you. In either case, this is not a desirable situation to be in for an expensive cruiser with a mediocre tank (at best). The covops cloak of the Force Recon (and the Stratios and Astero hulls) affords the hunter/tackler the ability to examine the situation, possibly bookmark an object/wreck for a better warp-in and initiate contact under more favorable circumstances, while the uncloaked Combat Recon landing blindly instantly alerts the target to the threat, more often than not allowing them plenty of time to align and warp.
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the only way
Probes are a thing, so no.
A cloaked force recon is immune to probing and d-scan. A combat recon is immune only to dscan.
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Don't get me wrong. I love recons, and combat recons are kind of red-headed stepchildren.
But, there's no downside to this ability. The tradeoff of a cloak is that you can't have it running and do things (except run probes).
All this is doing is creating an escalation. Park a combat recon in a complex, and the only way to find him is with another combat recon; send in anything else, and they warp off. It becomes very one-dimensional.
Sure, combat recons need something to set them apart, but what they went with is really kinda "meh."
Please note that I do not have any actual opinion on this matter, coupled with the fact that I don't agree or disagree with you.
Just wanted to point out that Eve has always been about one-dimensional engagement most of the time. Either the enemy following the meta is the scissor and you are the rock, he will flee, either the other way around, unless you meet another rock...
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My interest in Huginns are rekindled.
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The unscannability introduces a new form of gameplay. EVE already has a sad lack of gameplay options, especially in comparison with the large number of hulls. In that sense this is a good development.
I'm for introducing more external gameplay options though. The equivalent of space terrain, space weather, space day/night.
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You know, how come no one got huffy about the other kind of d-scan immunity that those other recons have always had? Cloaks. Now there's a d-scan immunity you can't even spot with scouts. They're hardly gamebreaking and are common everywhere.
I just don't see what the problem with this d-scan immunity is. I don't fly combat recons so I'm not gaining anything from this, so I don't have a horse in the "must have" race. I'm just not seeing any problem with this being used against me. If I sit in a plex I'm going to need a scout or be ready and aligned if I want to be "safe", and frankly why would I want that if I'm in a plex?
Could someone explain exactly why this is a bad change?
Well, it depends on your opinion on awareness and should it be rewarded or not.
About covops cloak vs new d-scan immunity it's all about the drawbacks imo. Starting from requiring a slot; mobility drawbacks; hefty grid/cpu requirements in some cases; targeting delay; recloaking delay; and after all that you can still be decloaked by your own derpy piloting or other people.
In other words with covops cloaks you need to do some sacrifices and there is room for errors so you can lose your "immunity", with new d-scan immunity there are none - it's just there.
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You know, how come no one got huffy about the other kind of d-scan immunity that those other recons have always had? Cloaks. Now there's a d-scan immunity you can't even spot with scouts. They're hardly gamebreaking and are common everywhere.
I just don't see what the problem with this d-scan immunity is. I don't fly combat recons so I'm not gaining anything from this, so I don't have a horse in the "must have" race. I'm just not seeing any problem with this being used against me. If I sit in a plex I'm going to need a scout or be ready and aligned if I want to be "safe", and frankly why would I want that if I'm in a plex?
Could someone explain exactly why this is a bad change?
Well, it depends on your opinion on awareness and should it be rewarded or not.
About covops cloak vs new d-scan immunity it's all about the drawbacks imo. Starting from requiring a slot; mobility drawbacks; hefty grid/cpu requirements in some cases; targeting delay; recloaking delay; and after all that you can still be decloaked by your own derpy piloting or other people.
In other words with covops cloaks you need to do some sacrifices and there is room for errors so you can lose your "immunity", with new d-scan immunity there are none - it's just there.
With the Force Recon's role bonus, all you sacrifice is ~1 month of training for Recon V - Covops Cloak = free to fit. Bonus you get in return for this month of training = Warp under cloak.
The new Combat Recon bonus offers (finally!!!) a return for DPS ranging from poor to mediocre and tank ranging from "honor" to "hopes and dreams".
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I think while I have no issues with the actual changes to recons, as a whole, its taking stealth in the wrong direction for EVE.
The stealth in EVE is entirely binary, either you see something on d-scan, or you do not. There is no d-scan falloff, no 'I see a ship but can't tell what it is' none of that. This recent change just reinforces that. I'd ideally like to see a totally revamped directional scanning system that autoscans and has diminishing accuracy with distance, then you could use narrow angles or shorter ranges to give more accurate scan results. You could have ships that spoof looking like other ships, you could have passive camo that makes you harder to see on scans clearly, active camo that does that further, all the way up to cloaking. There's no variance right now in d-scan, its just on or off, I see it or I don't.
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I think while I have no issues with the actual changes to recons, as a whole, its taking stealth in the wrong direction for EVE.
The stealth in EVE is entirely binary, either you see something on d-scan, or you do not. There is no d-scan falloff, no 'I see a ship but can't tell what it is' none of that. This recent change just reinforces that. I'd ideally like to see a totally revamped directional scanning system that autoscans and has diminishing accuracy with distance, then you could use narrow angles or shorter ranges to give more accurate scan results. You could have ships that spoof looking like other ships, you could have passive camo that makes you harder to see on scans clearly, active camo that does that further, all the way up to cloaking. There's no variance right now in d-scan, its just on or off, I see it or I don't.
That sounds interesting, just like the days of Submarine Combat. Maybe bring it up to CCP?
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Many people have before. Its an oft talked about subject on the Features and Ideas forum, no idea if CCP has plans to revamp d-scan, but based on these changes, I think they assume its fine as is.